Hawks starting PF? It can’t be JJ

[akay]

On 8/1/2023 at 10:56 PM, Phunkabilly said:

just shows he sees the floor well at all times.  That's the kind of thing JC or Hunter could never give us

Honestly got so annoyed when I heard JC say he was practicing his playmaking all summer last year, like Im glad he was able to dish a few passes out to CC over the year, but his time could've been better spent elsewhere.

For playmaking like Jalen does, you gotta just have that vision and the ability to execute on it, and JC and Hunter just don't got the eyes or the passing ability to do it consistently enough to help our team in a significant way.

Fingers crossed Hunter gets traded for Pascal, or that Quin drills into his head about making an extra pass - the tunnel vision is insane from everyone not in our backcourt

[Spud2nique]

This sends a bad message to Trae. We gotta go get Siakam. JJ vs workouts against a chair in the off-season, COMON MAN! 

[ABH]

We are going with what we have..cheap organization..no more trades until mid season..hopefully they will changes but don't think they will..we can do changes mid season if they get serious..maybe a other letdown..see u in October 

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, ABH said:

no more trades until mid season

Uh huh. Whatever you say bubb.

[kg01]

It's two different things (a and b).  (a) We need to upgrade the frontcourt but (b) we shouldn't overpay to do it.  And (c) since there are no viable deals to do so, we should (d) bide our time until a deal materializes.  Best way to kill yourself is to make deals for the sake of doing it.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of acquiring Siakim but it's certainly not a slam dunk fit-wise.  And the fact that it'll be a rental makes the alleged cost plainly untenable for me.

I'd like to hear more about any other viable options people have.  The Toronto horse has been beaten into glue and dog food at this point. 

[AHF]

28 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

This sends a bad message to Trae. We gotta go get Siakam. JJ vs workouts against a chair in the off-season, COMON MAN! 

Why are you talking about a chair? Obi Toppin is a 25 year old former lottery pick.

The case for JJ has to be based more on his pedigree, his performance last year, and a reasonable projection of his development than any workouts in an empty gym this summer.  So I think you can still make the case for getting Siakam for sure but characterizing this as workouts against a chair as being the reason some are excited about JJ starting next year seems like a straw manning of their position.  

(Personally, I am guessing we will have a Bey / CC starting frontcourt if we don't make a significant change to the roster and that JJ / OO will be coming off the bench.)

[Spud2nique]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

OO will be coming off the bench.)

Stupidest thing ever. We have to flip CC to get OO to start if we don’t we are hindering our development as well as progress. CC is done, it’s OO’s time.

OO needs to start this year.

AJ has tremendous feel and pedigree, he’s got the IT.

Expendable: CC, Hunter, JJ.

I like Bey a lot. I think he’s crazy underrated and if we don’t make any trades, he better be the one to start not JJ cuz he is t ready for that role yet.

36 minutes ago, kg01 said:

it's certainly not a slam dunk fit-wise. 

it’s an 8/10 that’s for sure. Maybe 8.5.

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Stupidest thing ever. We have to flip CC to get OO to start if we don’t we are hindering our development as well as progress. CC is done, it’s OO’s time.

OO needs to start this year.

As I said, I am assuming no significant moves when I say I expect a Bey / CC lineup.  Dealing CC would qualify as a significant move, and I have already laid out to Diesel why I can see that happening.  (Short version:  I think CC is definitely not "done" at 29 years old but I do think that OO can do things and work within schemes that CC can't and I think it is likely that Quin will want to do some of these things.) 

But if that happens we have to see who is coming back to have any real idea of who is going to be starting and where.  For example, if CC gets moved in a deal for Siakam there is no way that JJ or Bey will be starting at PF.  If CC gets dumped ala JC and that is the only big deal left before the season kicks off, I think it is pretty much certain that one of Bey or JJ will be starting.  I am skeptical the team will just dump CC but I can't tell you what big deal will happen or whether a big deal will happen at all.  Many teams talk trade but only a few trades actually happen.

[RedDawg#8]

I think we should be open to the idea of starting OO and bringing CC off the bench if we decide to keep both.

Yes for OO’s development but also to preserve and extend CC’s availability for us. Let him play harder in smaller bursts.

I do agree that Bey may be ahead of JJ right now for PF minutes, but JJ will still get significant burn as Bey will also split some minutes at SF.

JJ is going to be fine next season. His size and strength is really underrated and something he has over JC. You see defenders bouncing off of JJ where we would usually see JC bouncing off of or getting pushed around by his matchups. 

JJ will have a learning curve but the tools are right there.

Edited August 4, 2023 by RedDawg#8

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

As I said, I am assuming no significant moves when I say I expect a Bey / CC lineup.  Dealing CC would qualify as a significant move, and I have already laid out to Diesel why I can see that happening.  (Short version:  I think CC is definitely not "done" at 29 years old but I do think that OO can do things and work within schemes that CC can't and I think it is likely that Quin will want to do some of these things.) 

But if that happens we have to see who is coming back to have any real idea of who is going to be starting and where.  For example, if CC gets moved in a deal for Siakam there is no way that JJ or Bey will be starting at PF.  If CC gets dumped ala JC and that is the only big deal left before the season kicks off, I think it is pretty much certain that one of Bey or JJ will be starting.  I am skeptical the team will just dump CC but I can't tell you what big deal will happen or whether a big deal will happen at all.  Many teams talk trade but only a few trades actually happen.

That’s complete crap. Not what you are saying of course but getting pennies on the dollar for CC. Whatever team gets him, he will fight for that starting position and in probably 50% of teams around the league, get the starting role. It’s not us, we are spreading it out. OO coming in with a soft touch. We going back to Pero days under Bud. Launch city ATL. It’s just bs if it’s another dump like JC, that would signify our front office kept CC a bit too long? Why is his market value around the league lowered because he doesn’t fit our scheme? That stuff would never come up if the Lakers were gonna deal him, or the Celts or Knicks. We get hosed even before a trade happens.  

1 hour ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I think we should be open to the idea of starting OO and bringing CC off the bench if we decide to keep both.

OO Will outright win it in camp.

[JayBirdHawk]

50 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

It’s just bs if it’s another dump like JC, that would signify our front office kept CC a bit too long? Why is his market value around the league lowered because he doesn’t fit our scheme?

JC was on the trade market for 3 consecutive years, not so with CC.

If it's a salary dump it's because Messy Ressy is trying to save even more money.

I was hoping this past season, that by the midway point that OO would force CC to a bench role OR even if CC was still starting, that OO would be getting more minutes than him.

Pre and Post Quin,  CC maintained his 26 mpg. OO dropped by 2 mpg under Quin.

[JustSomeGuy]

I don’t think Capela is as done as people here make him sound. I think he is definitely nearing the decline but that doesn’t mean we HAVE to trade him. Especially with no equal talent available to come back to us. We can always just let him expire or hold him until closer to the deadline. 

I personally really like our lineup with Bey at the 4 and CC at the 5. Gives Clint the room to be a lob threat and rebounder. Covers for the deficiency of Bey/Hunter as rebounding wings and opens up the floor for DJ and Trae. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by JustSomeGuy

[akay]

5 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

JJ vs workouts against a chair in the off-season

Ik Obi isn't a star, but he's an aight player older and bigger than JJ lol

Also, Lonzo and Lamelo been practicing against chairs their whole lives and it got em to stardom in the NBA, don't be hating on the humble 4-legged trainer 

1 hour ago, JustSomeGuy said:

I don’t think Capela is as done as people here make him sound. I think he is definitely nearing the decline but that doesn’t mean we HAVE to trade him. Especially with no equal talent available to come back to us. We can always just let him expire or hold him until closer to the deadline. 

I personally really like our lineup with Bey at the 4 and CC at the 5. Gives Clint the room to be a lob threat and rebounder. Covers for the deficiency of Bey/Hunter as rebounding wings and opens up the floor for DJ and Trae. 

We don't HAVE to trade him, but he only has 2 years left on his deal and we want OO to start - makes sense on paper to trade him for a FRP to recoup some assets and let our young guy shine while CC still has good trade value

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Pre and Post Quin,  CC maintained his 26 mpg. OO dropped by 2 mpg under Quin.

Wow, surprising.

[kg01]

3 hours ago, JustSomeGuy said:

I don’t think Capela is as done as people here make him sound. I think he is definitely nearing the decline but that doesn’t mean we HAVE to trade him. Especially with no equal talent available to come back to us. We can always just let him expire or hold him until closer to the deadline. 

I personally really like our lineup with Bey at the 4 and CC at the 5. Gives Clint the room to be a lob threat and rebounder. Covers for the deficiency of Bey/Hunter as rebounding wings and opens up the floor for DJ and Trae. 

I think it's more like us needing to trade him before he loses all his value.  And, although I'd be fine with keeping him, I do think the decline has already started.  Look how often he's hurt and how long it takes him to recover. 

[JustSomeGuy]

The only deal that makes sense is one where he brings us back something of value that makes us better.

If trading him doesn’t return anything of value that will help us win, I’d rather reduce his minutes and move him to a bench role and use his value he would bring us as an expiring in a couple years. 

[JayBirdHawk]

39 minutes ago, JustSomeGuy said:

The only deal that makes sense is one where he brings us back something of value that makes us better.

If trading him doesn’t return anything of value that will help us win, I’d rather reduce his minutes and move him to a bench role and use his value he would bring us as an expiring in a couple years. 

Here's my issue with this.....I think doing that immediately tanks his value. If they want to move him, just do it. Saw something recently that said, better to get 80% of your requested value vs trying to hold out for 100%, so you hold out and get 20% - see Collins, John.

Sell High!

 

[Spud2nique]

56 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Here's my issue with this.....I think doing that immediately tanks his value. If they want to move him, just do it. Saw something recently that said, better to get 80% of your requested value vs trying to hold out for 100%, so you hold out and get 20% - see Collins, John.

Sell High!

 

Yep, this is my philosophy. As with JC, Cap’s value only declines from here on out.

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, kg01 said:

Look how often he's hurt and how long it takes him to recover. 

Since he was 21 and a starter at Center, he has averaged 65 games per season.   Last season he played in 65 games.   That's decline?

 

[Gray Mule]

When I was a young lad and I told my Mom, "I want - - - "  She would tell me, "You're big enough that your wants won't hurt you."

Well, I want.  If we trade Clint to Dallas, who really wants him, I want Dereck Lively 11 back in the trade.  A center for a center.  Fill in whatever is necessary to balance out the payroll.

A mature, ready to go center for a rookie for Quin to train.  Work out the details.  Dallas has other players and future draft picks that they can add to the deal.  I don't care who or what else we get, just please grab DL 2nd  in the deal.

If they will not give up DL 2nd, then, no deal!