Hawks looking to trade

[capstone21]

His lack of D and his ill advised logo shots (especially in the final minutes constantely) has been doing a lot of damage.

Our team would be more balanced with DJM at the Point and bringing in an excellent 2 way SG like Mikael Bridges.  

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

@Sothron , @NBASupes, @Vol4ever

 

is there any inside news you can share about Trae & DJ relationship with all these losses ?…..do they still have a high desire to play together?….are they on the same page in terms of what they want for this team ?

 

is Siakam a player that those two guys covet as some sort of missing piece?

 

im really interested to know where these two are with their relationship and going forward.

 

perhaps @macdaddy is right that Trae & DJ and the FO planned to trade Murray cause they knew this wasn’t going to work.

They want to play together but they both know this isn't working. DJM taking his deal and his comments about "loyalty" were about him showing loyalty to the Hawks in more than one way. DJM would not be opposed to trade out of Atlanta. He knows he isn't playing his natural position. He wants to be a PG again. Look at how many times his dad has mentioned DJM playing out of position on social media.

If the team does what I hope which is keep Trae and JJ but put everyone else on the trading block we could do a soft rebuild and recoup the assets we lost with the DJM trade. If it works out, great. If it doesn't work out, well, that would almost certainly lead to Trae being traded for a monster haul not this offseason but next. 

[Chrimturn]

23 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

-- I think that's why some people are entertaining (myself included) the idea of flipping him. 

Right.  There’ the key word.  That’s all it is.  Entertaining the idea.  Pros and Cons…different scenarios.

We are all aware of the how things are going.  We all know the financial situation.   If we try to envision what the squad could look like with Trae and different pieces, why not think of what it might look like without him too?  

For everybody that’s anti trading Trae, this doesn’t mean we’re ready to write him off.  Just taking different options into consideration.  

 

[hylndr11]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

They want to play together but they both know this isn't working. DJM taking his deal and his comments about "loyalty" were about him showing loyalty to the Hawks in more than one way. DJM would not be opposed to trade out of Atlanta. He knows he isn't playing his natural position. He wants to be a PG again. Look at how many times his dad has mentioned DJM playing out of position on social media.

If the team does what I hope which is keep Trae and JJ but put everyone else on the trading block we could do a soft rebuild and recoup the assets we lost with the DJM trade. If it works out, great. If it doesn't work out, well, that would almost certainly lead to Trae being traded for a monster haul not this offseason but next. 

Prolly best case scenario, but also begs question why did they do this to begin with I know what has been said but if dj wanted to be a pg  it sure why he came here .  I guess they did to just see if it could work ? Cost was  very high for an experiment.  

[Diesel]

12 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Once Al was gone, the shit just didn't work anymore.

What do you think happens when Trae is gone?

You all give him all the credit in the world for our losing but don't factor him in to why we win at all.

 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Then or than?  Are you suggesting trade Trae first then trade Murray later?  Not sure I understand this

That post was the embodiment of Hawks fans.   That's how this board sounds.   Every year, throwing the baby out with the bathwater. 

 

 

[Sothron]

8 minutes ago, hylndr11 said:

Prolly best case scenario, but also begs question why did they do this to begin with I know what has been said but if dj wanted to be a pg  it sure why he came here .  I guess they did to just see if it could work ? Cost was  very high for an experiment.  

Trae was demanding a star player come here. As has been noted before the only realistic trade option was DJM. They thought this would work great. The you go, I go type of ballhandling approach the Heat had with Wade and Lebron. DJM was supposed to hold up as the point of attack defender.

He hasn't. He isn't the All Defense guy he used to be. It is just the reality of the situation. DJM going back to PG is the best for him and his career frankly.

[bird_dirt]

Just now, Sothron said:

Trae was demanding a star player come here. As has been noted before the only realistic trade option was DJM. They thought this would work great. The you go, I go type of ballhandling approach the Heat had with Wade and Lebron. DJM was supposed to hold up as the point of attack defender.

He hasn't. He isn't the All Defense guy he used to be. It is just the reality of the situation. DJM going back to PG is the best for him and his career frankly.

Everyone was high fiving over that move. Over and over we kept lamenting about needing another ball handler and needing a defensive backcourt mate for Trae. Everyone expected that from DJM. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to use hindsight to rewrite history. 
Some may have questioned the trade package, but no one questioned what DJM was supposed to bring. 
Sad how it’s turned out, losing assets on a project that hasn’t worked out. But that’s how the ball bounces. You don’t know until you try. 

[Diesel]

30 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

His lack of D and his ill advised logo shots (especially in the final minutes constantly) has been doing a lot of damage.

Our team would be more balanced with DJM at the Point and bringing in an excellent 2 way SG like Mikael Bridges.  

You want a draft lottery party right?

Last year was his first year running the Ship in Brooklyn.   They made it to the first round of the playoffs after winning about 45 games.   They get to the playoffs and get swept by the 76ers.  Let your frustration work on you.. but don't loose your wit.   The team you propose would go nowhere. 

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

It's a good point, but Trae isn't quite like those guys -- Trae doesn't have a comp that has actually won chips.  Nash is probably his best comp given he was also small and an elite distributor and he never could win even with help.  I think we can win a chip with Trae but we're not really close to what we'd need in terms of roster construction -- I think that's why some people are entertaining (myself included) the idea of flipping him.  Him and DJ are the two players that should have actual value in trades and return high level talent, which is why DJ is in trade conversations right now... 

The closest I can imagine this team making a deep playoff run again would be the 2025-2026 season if JJ continues to develop at his current pace.  We honestly need JJ to turn into a bonafide all-star, otherwise we don't have the talent to ship out to get better talent back in.  And we're pick starved -- it's not an enviable situation to be in if you look at Landry right now.

Trae's comp, whether it is stated or not, is Allen Iverson.  But Trae actually has more skill than Iverson.  People will scoff at that, but it's the truth.  Trae can score like AI, but pass at a level that Iverson could ever dream of.   He's a combination of Iverson + Nash.

But the bottom line is that the team needs to be constructed in a way in which all issues can be shored up by a multitude of players.  Our frontline needs a massive upgrade.  We're all going to ride with JJ, because he's already shown that he's not one dimensional.  We need more players like JJ.  And a center with some actual SIZE and SKILL.

Edited December 27, 2023 by TheNorthCydeRises

[Mikey]

36 minutes ago, Sothron said:

They want to play together but they both know this isn't working. DJM taking his deal and his comments about "loyalty" were about him showing loyalty to the Hawks in more than one way. DJM would not be opposed to trade out of Atlanta. He knows he isn't playing his natural position. He wants to be a PG again. Look at how many times his dad has mentioned DJM playing out of position on social media.

If the team does what I hope which is keep Trae and JJ but put everyone else on the trading block we could do a soft rebuild and recoup the assets we lost with the DJM trade. If it works out, great. If it doesn't work out, well, that would almost certainly lead to Trae being traded for a monster haul not this offseason but next. 

Dejounte tune has changed major coming into this season. It will come out publicly in due time but he isn’t happy in his role one bit. 

[kg01]

20 minutes ago, Diesel said:

You want a draft lottery party right?

Last year was his first year running the Ship in Brooklyn.   They made it to the first round of the playoffs after winning about 45 games.   They get to the playoffs and get swept by the 76ers.  Let your frustration work on you.. but don't loose your wit.   The team you propose would go nowhere. 

 

 

Bridges is perhaps the most overrated player in the league. Folks speak of him as if he's (a) younger than he is and (b) has achieved as the primary on a team.  I'd love him but hes a guy that needs Trae, not a guy that can replace Trae.

All this talk about having a more balanced team is pure comedy.  We've seen how that movie ends.

The fix is to build around trae.  Periodt. 

7 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Dejounte tune has changed major coming into this season. It will come out publicly in due time but he isn’t happy in his role one bit. 

Truthfully, it's just not working.  But he's also complicit in that so I hope he's self-aware enough to see that.  Not all on him but he's a part of that (i.e. it not working). 

[gurpilo]

I would rebuild around DJM and JJ and trade everyone else.

Capela, OO, Hunter, Bey, Bogi... All are average or below average and have flaws we cannot cover. 

Young, I cannot see a contender building around him, is impossible for us.

[Final_quest]

20 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

Everyone was high fiving over that move. Over and over we kept lamenting about needing another ball handler and needing a defensive backcourt mate for Trae. Everyone expected that from DJM. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to use hindsight to rewrite history. 
Some may have questioned the trade package, but no one questioned what DJM was supposed to bring. 
Sad how it’s turned out, losing assets on a project that hasn’t worked out. But that’s how the ball bounces. You don’t know until you try. 

Yep a lot of revisionist history for most people.  I certainly loved the move.

I think the fit hasn't worked with Murray, but since he signed for such a great deal I'm optimistic we can actually come out ahead in a trade.  I'd hope for two 1sts back plus a young player on Jalen's level and filler.  

[JeffS17]

8 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Dejounte tune has changed major coming into this season. It will come out publicly in due time but he isn’t happy in his role one bit. 

I mean, it's already out there.  Him and his dad subtweeting shit, deleting all his social media or w/e, his attitude hasn't been joyful or cheery like when he arrived, it's all there for everyone to see.  

 

25 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

Everyone was high fiving over that move. Over and over we kept lamenting about needing another ball handler and needing a defensive backcourt mate for Trae. Everyone expected that from DJM. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to use hindsight to rewrite history. 
Some may have questioned the trade package, but no one questioned what DJM was supposed to bring. 
Sad how it’s turned out, losing assets on a project that hasn’t worked out. But that’s how the ball bounces. You don’t know until you try. 

At the time, I thought the trade was a fair deal.  But I also thought DJ was a really good defender (shame on me for believing narratives without watching him).  Now that I'm more familiar with his game, as our scouts and FO should have been at the time of the trade, it doesn't make that much sense to trade for him.  Do we need another ball handler?  Yes, but it always needed to be a wing or forward with size.  Not saying that was available or anything, just the reality.  I think Trae being impatient and demanding us to make moves [when the right move is not available] is hurting us big time.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

49 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

His lack of D and his ill advised logo shots (especially in the final minutes constantely) has been doing a lot of damage.

Our team would be more balanced with DJM at the Point and bringing in an excellent 2 way SG like Mikael Bridges.  

Why can't we bring in an excellent 2 way SG like Mikael Bridges in with Trae?

See?  This is what I'm talking about.

You guys tend to blame Trae for most of the problems with the team.  But you don't want to provide the necessary upgrades to the team so that Trae doesn't feel he has to take 30 foot threes ( which he makes at a 40% clip, by the way ).

Trae is going through the same situation that Dominique went through. Nique played with a bunch of nice complimentary players ( who played with far more toughness than our current group ).  But Nique never had enough legit firepower to make noise in the East.  And the one time he got close, a loaded Celtics team full of Hall of Famers knocked him out.

 

 

Fact is, the only time Trae had legit vet talent around him, we went to the damn EC Finals.

Gallo - Lou Williams - Tony Snell - Solo . . all decent vets who knew their jobs and did it somewhat well.  Still not a fan of "The Knife" ( Solo ), but he obviously had a locker room presence that everybody loved.  Collins was still a borderline top 10 PF

[RedDawg#8]

We ain’t been the same since Sir Foster decided to hang it up this offseason. 16 years strong.

That spans from the end of the previous bad Hawks era; pre playoff Joe, Smoove, Horford era, up until now.

This team hasn’t been this bad since we were intentionally trying to tank.

We lost a part of our heart and soul.

I miss Sir Foster.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

Lebron couldn’t do it.  

People want Booker for Trae and Booker took Phoenix nowhere.  

Trae is the wrong fall guy.  Losing brings out the most unstable reactions.  

[RedDawg#8]

For the anti-Trae, he’s too little to win crowd:

Remember, it took a veteran Joe Johnson until his 3rd season with the Hawks to lead us to the playoffs. It took him until his 4th season to have a winning record with the Hawks.

He had size. He played smart. He played defense. He was our best player. He still only won 26, 30, then 37 games. 

It takes a lot to win. We have to build this thing the right way and we do not have time to piss around with a bunch of guys that can’t win together.

Everyone’s value is low. We aren’t getting a star. Just try to clear cap space at this point and give yourself room to add in the offseason. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, JTB said:

But what does that do for Trae and this franchise?

the whole idea of Murray taking a pay cut is to bring in another star player. Why trade Murray for a player who can easily walk away this offseason? 

Because people want to blow it up anyway.

I want to see how the Hawks play, if you add a legit talented frontcourt player to this lineup.

 

Here are our options:

 

1) Stand pat, keep everyone, and let people develop into their roles for the entire year.

2) Trade off role players for better fitting role players, and see if that helps our chemistry.

3) Make a major move to bring in more talent, by trading multiple players and draft picks

4) Say "F the Vets" and bring up all of the kids and play them, essentially tanking the season. ( Bufkin, Gueye, Lundy become rotation players )

5) Blow it all up, trade Trae, and start over.

 

If you say "blow it up", you run the risk of not seeing winning basketball in ATL until 2030.  It is way too hard in this league to find legit star / superstar talent.  Hitting the reset button could easily turn the Hawks into the Wiz, Blazers, Pistons, or Spurs.

If you say "F the Vets", you've given up on the season, and simply want to see what our draft picks look like with extended minutes, playing alongside legit NBA players

If you say "Make a major move", you're willing to take a chance and give up rotation players on this team in order to get 1 or 2 greater and better fitting talents.

If you say "trade off role players", you believe that the Hawks are a "tweak" away from righting the ship, and just want to make minor moves.

If you say "stand pat", you either believe that the Hawks and Quin will figure this thing out, and we'll be alright . . or that you're scared that any move Landry makes, may make it worse.

Edited December 27, 2023 by TheNorthCydeRises