Hawks looking to trade

[Sothron]

5 hours ago, txsting said:

I've been feeling the same for a couple years now.  Consolidation trade with Dre + stuff for a better SF.  

I'm also starting to think that either Trae or DJ has to go, but it's a bit early for me to push that button.  

Before @NBASupes says it again: the most valuable player in the NBA is a two way wing player. Who are we getting for Dre that is an upgrade that is a reasonable trade target? 

I don't like Dre. I think he's been a bust as a #4 pick and TS gets a free pass for how badly that draft worked out. That being said...it isn't to upgrade from him.

I'm totally down for it but what is a cost we can pay? We kinda shot our shot in the DJM trade.

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Not worried about if he can guard 2s or not.  Find a 3 who can guard 2s, but still isn't afraid to mix it up in the paint. 

Have Dre still guard 3s, but on offense, play him at the 2.

At that point, youre constructing a roster around a guy that has the worst impact and stats on the team.  Why would you make roster decisions around Dre?  Build around star players, not bad “valuable” role players

[Wretch]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

As a duo... Trae and DJ...

27.1, 2.9, 10.7 shooting 41% from the field. 

+ 

20.4, 4.1,  5.1 shooting 45.8% from the field. 

What is the problem here?

What are some of the best 1 & 2 combos in the league??

Steph and Klay?

29.1, 5.0, 4.7 shooting 47.6% From the field 

+ 

15.7, 3.8, 2.3 shooting 40.6% from the field. 

 

Jalen and RJ?

24.8, 3.7, and 5.5 shooting 46.7% from the field 

+ 

18.6, 3.6, and 2.7 shooting 42.1% from the field. 

 

Haliburton and Hield?

26.9, 4.0, and 11.9 shooting 52.1% from the field. 

+

13.6, 3.0, and 1.3 shooting 45.9% from the field.

 

Point is... you can't find a duo that dominates what we have in our 1 and 2.   That's because the 1 and 2 are not the problem.   The problem is somewhere else.  I can finger point, but I don't want to go off on a tangent and some of you will. 

 

I don't think the problem is Trae/DJ either. Honestly, it's a case where we have a lot of good parts in the starting lineup that don't fit great together.  Resulting in a good, but not great team.  With Hunter, the problem is that defense and size aside, he doesn't bring anything better, or even different, than what you get from DJ, Trae, or even JJ now.

With the backcourt being fine, and if we're talking trades, I don't necessarily think we should look at it as try to upgrade Dre.  I think if Jalen can guard the 3, then you evaluate whether a consolidation of Dre + <whatever> can upgrade SOMETHING in the frontcourt.  That or we just continue the wait and see if the streaky offense settles down into a consistent rhythm.  

I'll say this much for the record...

I don't dislike anybody on this team.  I love this squad from top to bottom, even as we're middling.  I don't think I've ever felt that way about a Hawks team.  I tune into every game excited and I honestly whish that we could get it together without making any major moves.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

22 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Before @NBASupes says it again: the most valuable player in the NBA is a two way wing player. Who are we getting for Dre that is an upgrade that is a reasonable trade target? 

I don't like Dre. I think he's been a bust as a #4 pick and TS gets a free pass for how badly that draft worked out. That being said...it isn't to upgrade from him.

I'm totally down for it but what is a cost we can pay? We kinda shot our shot in the DJM trade.

 

If Dre is a 2-way player, he is not an impactful player. 

Even a guy who scores less, but did more intangible things like get rebounds, blocks, and steals . . while playing decent "Dre-like" defense . . would be more valuable for the team than Dre.

The dude is not a defensive stopper.  The opposing team isn't like . . "We can't attack Dre Hunter. He's just too good of a defender."

No one fears Dre.  So what are we really losing?

 

You could probably swap Dillon Brooks for Dre, and he'd have more of a team impact here than Dre would.

[Diesel]

42 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I don't dislike anybody on this team.  I love this squad from top to bottom, even as we're middling.  I don't think I've ever felt that way about a Hawks team.  I tune into every game excited and I honestly whish that we could get it together without making any major moves.  

I think we're middling for a reason other than fit.  I believe it's just new coach smell on the team.  Quin is establishing a culture and changing bad habits at the same time.   You can see it when you watch us play... When we had JJ especially.. at some point, we were dominant and then we'd inexplicably revert back to old things. 

That's why it's possible to watch us have a toe to toe shoot out with Indiana.   We have dominant moments... but he hasn't coached out all of the old habits. 

With Dre'.. he started the year off better... but he has since fallen back into sorry Dre'.   Analytics make Dre look turrible.  He's not being anything we need.   Sidique is a bad defender.  He make bad decisions on the defensive side of the ball.   OO is having a little regression.   But he's shooting a ton of threes. 

I believe that JJ will hold down the front court until Gueye is ready to replace him.   I think JJ can play the 4 or the 3.  I think that if we can get better positioning on rebounds especially with OO, our 5 spot is good.   We need Dre to be that standout defender... that does make a difference when he's on the floor.   If not, we may as well package him up and try to get a player that can. 

 

[Diesel]

40 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

If Dre is a 2-way player, he is not an impactful player. 

Even a guy who scores less, but did more intangible things like get rebounds, blocks, and steals . . while playing decent "Dre-like" defense . . would be more valuable for the team than Dre.

The dude is not a defensive stopper.  The opposing team isn't like . . "We can't attack Dre Hunter. He's just too good of a defender."

No one fears Dre.  So what are we really losing?

 

You could probably swap Dillon Brooks for Dre, and he'd have more of a team impact here than Dre would.

I wanted to believe in Dre this year.  He had stepped up.  He was consistent with his shooting.. especially from outside.  He was making quick decisions with the ball.  Then something happened after the 9th game.   He just became lazy and listless.  He began making dumb fouls.   I don't mind him having a voice with the refs.. but the frustration fouls is stupid. 

Let's just tell the whole truth.. as a 4th pick, he's a bust.  But that doesn't mean that nothing can be salvaged.   He has perfect size to be a big wing.   I think it's a case of desire & toughness.   I don't know if he really has either. 

 

[NBASupes]

The let's trade Dre for Mikal Bridges who Brooklyn wouldn't take anyone on our team for is the problem with this team. Our two best players aren't ideals for most teams but let's from the role player. 

This team's issue is the fact that our back court is poorly constructed built off of @TheNorthCydeRises idea of we need another ball handler outside of Trae. Terrible. 

Our two best players aren't good enough. 

And we don't have a single player on this squad that can score an easy basket when needed making this team too perimeter focus. 

Before someone says Golden State. There elite movement skills is what scores easy baskets for them and since Klay fell off, they are struggling at scoring easy baskets and now you see them finally falling off. 

Scoring an easy basket when you need it is probably the most critical need in the NBA. It's been like this forever in the NBA. The one thing we had with the Horford Hawks is we could always score an easy basket when needed with Al and then with Sap but we had no #1 option who could take over a game. We might have that in pseudo with Trae and Murray at times but if you can't score an easy basket when needed, we just will take too many difficult shots when teams tighten up at the end of games causing us to point fingers when the reality is, we haven't addressed the biggest issue yet. 

How can we call ourselves a good offense without this ability. It's not even like we are below average at this like Quin's Jazz but we are flat out terrible at it. 

[NBASupes]

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

I wanted to believe in Dre this year.  He had stepped up.  He was consistent with his shooting.. especially from outside.  He was making quick decisions with the ball.  Then something happened after the 9th game.   He just became lazy and listless.  He began making dumb fouls.   I don't mind him having a voice with the refs.. but the frustration fouls is stupid. 

Let's just tell the whole truth.. as a 4th pick, he's a bust.  But that doesn't mean that nothing can be salvaged.   He has perfect size to be a big wing.   I think it's a case of desire & toughness.   I don't know if he really has either. 

 

Bro, how the hell can he be a bust when the draft was shit

That draft just wasn't good outside of the top 2 picks. R.J. is someone that most would consider around the 9-10 range in decent draft years and he went 3 and was clearly that. The draft just was bad. If Dre was in the previous draft, he would have been barely a lottery pick or just outside of it. 

Blaming Dre for going 4 is idiotic when the draft was ass. Los Angeles then New Orleans wasn't trading that pick if SGA was at 4. He wasn't, it was a small PG that neither needed in Garland or Hunter. Both teams moved the pick. Others was trying to come up for Jarrett Culver. It was just a bad draft.

Edited December 6, 2023 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

7 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

If Dre is a 2-way player, he is not an impactful player. 

Even a guy who scores less, but did more intangible things like get rebounds, blocks, and steals . . while playing decent "Dre-like" defense . . would be more valuable for the team than Dre.

The dude is not a defensive stopper.  The opposing team isn't like . . "We can't attack Dre Hunter. He's just too good of a defender."

No one fears Dre.  So what are we really losing?

 

You could probably swap Dillon Brooks for Dre, and he'd have more of a team impact here than Dre would.

No.

[NBASupes]

8 hours ago, Sothron said:

Before @NBASupes says it again: the most valuable player in the NBA is a two way wing player. Who are we getting for Dre that is an upgrade that is a reasonable trade target? 

I don't like Dre. I think he's been a bust as a #4 pick and TS gets a free pass for how badly that draft worked out. That being said...it isn't to upgrade from him.

I'm totally down for it but what is a cost we can pay? We kinda shot our shot in the DJM trade.

They already know. At this point, he's in their crosshair for the blame so this is more of them venting than anything else. 

[Spud2nique]

This was from early November I just saw it OL but I’d do this deal for my boy Clarke from SJSU. AND A PICK? Sign me up.

Trae to Clarke on lobs would be sick.

Memphis Grizzlies Receive: C Clint Capela

Atlanta Hawks: PF/C Brandon Clarke, PF Jake LaRavia, 2024 first-round pick (lottery-protected)

https://www.si.com/nba/hawks/news/nba-trades-analyst-proposes-trade-for-hawks-center-clint-capela
 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

8 hours ago, Wretch said:

I don't think the problem is Trae/DJ either. Honestly, it's a case where we have a lot of good parts in the starting lineup that don't fit great together.  Resulting in a good, but not great team.  With Hunter, the problem is that defense and size aside, he doesn't bring anything better, or even different, than what you get from DJ, Trae, or even JJ now.

 

Dre plays a position that, traditionally, most of your high level superstar players have come from.  No one in this fan base is asking him to be a superstar.  Just be more consistent, and as @JayBirdHawk said, play with more force and effort.  That's all we ask.

If he's not scoring or not getting enough touches, you can still impact the game in other ways.

To me, here's the stat of the year.

Trae Young is averaging 1.6 steals a game . . . . . Dre, when you combine steals + blocks, is averaging 1.3 a game.

How TF is that possible, when you have a 6-8 guy who has been anointed to be the best defender on the team? 

Now I know that getting steals and blocks doesn't automatically make you a good defender.  But it is an indication of defensive activity and making plays that can end a possession.  Defensive rebounding is another one of those indicators.   When you add steals + Drebs together, that equals 4.3

I look at that as 4.3 chances per game, that Dre can end an opponent's offensive possession with a "hustle" type play.  Compared to other starting SFs around the league, that's below average.

So then the conversation moves to . . . "well Dre plays great defense because he can guard his man".  Really?

 

 

The truth is that Dre gives up almost 51% FG, and he gives up just as many points as he scores, if not slightly more.

 

Dre gets the ire of this fan base, because most of us know that if he lived up to the potential of even a slightly above average SF in the NBA, his impact wouldn't be invisible.  Instead, we're reduced to hoping JJ saves the entire team.

Hawks are:

• 1 - 6 when he scores 10 points or less
• 1 - 6 when he gets 0 steals
• 2 - 6 when he gets 2 or less defensive rebounds
• 8 - 2 when he makes 2 threes or more
• 6 - 3 when he scores 15 points or more

I will cheer him when he's playing well.  But overall, I'm done with that dude.  The Hawks need more energy, spunk, and impact from the SF position.  If they got it, maybe the guards won't feel like they have to do it all.

People have been asking from consistent activity from #11 on both sides of the ball, and he's actually doing it.

But until I see the same thing from #12, I'm honestly done with him.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

9 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

You could probably swap Dillon Brooks for Dre, and he'd have more of a team impact here than Dre would.

 

I thought the Dillon Brooks line would trigger people.  He's one of those "fake defenders" too. 

Difference in Dillon is that he talks big, but his overall defensive activity is worse than Dre's.  But Brooks does have a track record of limiting the people he's defending, to a lower shooting percentage.  This year, that number is 45% FG compared to Dre's 51%.

[AHF]

10 hours ago, Sothron said:

Before @NBASupes says it again: the most valuable player in the NBA is a two way wing player. Who are we getting for Dre that is an upgrade that is a reasonable trade target? 

I don't like Dre. I think he's been a bust as a #4 pick and TS gets a free pass for how badly that draft worked out. That being said...it isn't to upgrade from him.

I'm totally down for it but what is a cost we can pay? We kinda shot our shot in the DJM trade.

I think if we are going to get an impactful two way wing then DM will have to be part of the deal.  He is a size issue here when paired with Trae but is still a very good player.  I don't think anyone else other than JJ and Trae would move the needle in a deal like that at least as of today.  You are correct that no one is trading someone like that for Hunter and I think the same applies to CC, OO, Bey, etc.

[Gray Mule]

Where, in the draft, Hunter was selected is unfair to him and to the Hawks.  This should have nothing to do with how good or bad he is.  Sure, the higher a player is drafted the more we expect of them.  

Whether Hunter was drafted #4 or #24 has no real bearing on his performance.  He is what he is.  Squawk posters feel that he can do better.  Quin isn't finished with this Hawk team.  I expect to see vast improvements with the entire team and with each individual player.  When he's finished, this will not be a .500 team but much better.  Patience!

[NBASupes]

36 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think if we are going to get an impactful two way wing then DM will have to be part of the deal.  He is a size issue here when paired with Trae but is still a very good player.  I don't think anyone else other than JJ and Trae would move the needle in a deal like that at least as of today.  You are correct that no one is trading someone like that for Hunter and I think the same applies to CC, OO, Bey, etc.

Does anyone want Murray for their star big wing. Hell no. We need to be honest about that. Our best players are the issue. 

We left the tank too soon because a player who's not good enough begged for it. If we can trade him and his blind stans, that would be ideal honestly if the value was good but it's not so no point. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Dre plays a position that, traditionally, most of your high level superstar players have come from.  No one in this fan base is asking him to be a superstar.  Just be more consistent, and as @JayBirdHawk said, play with more force and effort.  That's all we ask.

If he's not scoring or not getting enough touches, you can still impact the game in other ways.

To me, here's the stat of the year.

Trae Young is averaging 1.6 steals a game . . . . . Dre, when you combine steals + blocks, is averaging 1.3 a game.

How TF is that possible, when you have a 6-8 guy who has been anointed to be the best defender on the team? 

Now I know that getting steals and blocks doesn't automatically make you a good defender.  But it is an indication of defensive activity and making plays that can end a possession.  Defensive rebounding is another one of those indicators.   When you add steals + Drebs together, that equals 4.3

I look at that as 4.3 chances per game, that Dre can end an opponent's offensive possession with a "hustle" type play.  Compared to other starting SFs around the league, that's below average.

So then the conversation moves to . . . "well Dre plays great defense because he can guard his man".  Really?

 

 

The truth is that Dre gives up almost 51% FG, and he gives up just as many points as he scores, if not slightly more.

 

Dre gets the ire of this fan base, because most of us know that if he lived up to the potential of even a slightly above average SF in the NBA, his impact wouldn't be invisible.  Instead, we're reduced to hoping JJ saves the entire team.

Hawks are:

• 1 - 6 when he scores 10 points or less
• 1 - 6 when he gets 0 steals
• 2 - 6 when he gets 2 or less defensive rebounds
• 8 - 2 when he makes 2 threes or more
• 6 - 3 when he scores 15 points or more

I will cheer him when he's playing well.  But overall, I'm done with that dude.  The Hawks need more energy, spunk, and impact from the SF position.  If they got it, maybe the guards won't feel like they have to do it all.

People have been asking from consistent activity from #11 on both sides of the ball, and he's actually doing it.

But until I see the same thing from #12, I'm honestly done with him.

 

No. 

[kg01]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

I thought the Dillon Brooks line would trigger people.  He's one of those "fake defenders" too. 

Difference in Dillon is that he talks big, but his overall defensive activity is worse than Dre's.  But Brooks does have a track record of limiting the people he's defending, to a lower shooting percentage.  This year, that number is 45% FG compared to Dre's 51%.

Brooks tries hard and plays with force, which makes him better than smHunter.  

[NBASupes]

A lot of crying going on here for things that won't happen. 

Let's upgrade Hunter. Okay, name an offer. That team don't want a single player on our team for that said player.  

 

What about Dillion Brooks? Tone setting and culture setter. He's more valuable to that squad than others, not for Hunter. 

What about Mikal Bridges? They don't want to trade him for anyone on our team. 

We just need to be honest. We bet on the wrong horse and that horse ain't Dre, it's Trae. 

Dre ain't the reason we ended the tank much sooner than we should have. 

[NBASupes]

Luka would have this same squad contending. 

If you want to truly help this team, it starts at the head of the snake