Hawks looking to trade

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

I would give up Murray+Hunter+picks for OG.  He's what this team needs.  I know it's a pipe dream, but that would fix a lot of issues we have.

That's your pipe dream and don't share it with anybody of importance in the organization. 

OG - Overrated. 

 

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

Indy hasn't been relevant for ages, for them a play in spot is a success at this stage. Hawks have been stuck playing. 500 ball after making the ECF  going on for three years now. Elite on offense and crap on defense will gets you to the second round tops. Not sure that's what we are aiming for, I hope it's not. 

Do you consider any of the GS championship teams elite on defense?

They fooled the whole world.   They showed you Draymond and said, we're a defensively elite team.

Some years they were good defensively.  But every year, they had a Net rating that was sky high.   The way that you win games still haven't changed.  You have to outscore your opponent.   If you put up a plethora of points and get just a couple of stops, you will win.  Our team is capable of getting a couple of stops.  Right now, our main problem is reverting back to one on one basketball and giving up second chance points. 

I would happily take KAT, knowing that he's not going to improve our defense... because he improves our offense to the point where I won't have to worry about our ability to score. 

I hate we didn't get a stud like Mark Williams.   Somebody who just rebounds the ball and plays defense. 

 

 

 

 

[Atlantaholic]

16 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Do you consider any of the GS championship teams elite on defense?

They fooled the whole world.   They showed you Draymond and said, we're a defensively elite team.

Some years they were good defensively.  But every year, they had a Net rating that was sky high.   The way that you win games still haven't changed.  You have to outscore your opponent.   If you put up a plethora of points and get just a couple of stops, you will win.  Our team is capable of getting a couple of stops.  Right now, our main problem is reverting back to one on one basketball and giving up second chance points. 

I would happily take KAT, knowing that he's not going to improve our defense... because he improves our offense to the point where I won't have to worry about our ability to score. 

I hate we didn't get a stud like Mark Williams.   Somebody who just rebounds the ball and plays defense. 

 

 

 

 

Their defensive ratings in their championship seasons were: 1st-2015, 2nd-2017, 11th-2018, 1st - 2022. So yea. I think the Nuggets last year at 15th were the worst ranked drtg team to win an NBA championship. Ever.

Almost every single championship team is elite (top3-5) on one end and at least very good (top 10-15) on the other. It doesn't really matter if it's defense or offense but you have to be able to be fantastic at one end and good in the other or you aren't consistently outscoring anyone. 

[Spud2nique]

What about this? I would.

 

[Atlantaholic]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

What about this? I would.

 

Lateral move honestly. Grant isn't scoring 23ppg here, he'll average around 16-18 on average efficiency and be a step down on defense. Essentially a slight upgrade offensively and a slight downgrade defensively, and we lose another pick. Honestly we should be trying to acquire picks not give them away. 

[AHF]

6 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

So yea. I think the Nuggets last year at 15th were the worst ranked drtg team to win an NBA championship. Ever.

Almost every single championship team is elite (top3-5) on one end and at least very good (top 10-15) on the other. It doesn't really matter if it's defense or offense but you have to be able to be fantastic at one end and good in the other or you aren't consistently outscoring anyone. 

15th is definitely not the worst defensive rating ever but you are correct for the general trend.  Most champions are a top 5 offense and top 10 defense.  (Not close to all of them but it is the most common profile).

Outlier example:  2000-01 LA Lakers were 21st in DRTG.

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

Their defensive ratings in their championship seasons were: 1st-2015, 2nd-2017, 11th-2018, 1st - 2022. So yea. I think the Nuggets last year at 15th were the worst ranked drtg team to win an NBA championship. Ever.

Almost every single championship team is elite (top3-5) on one end and at least very good (top 10-15) on the other. It doesn't really matter if it's defense or offense but you have to be able to be fantastic at one end and good in the other or you aren't consistently outscoring anyone. 

Like I said before.  Their Net rating is what guaranteed them being a winner.   You can get to a great net rating both offensively and defensively. 

2013

2016

2018

2022

 

They are never out of the top 5 in terms of Net Rating...and you noticed that the other teams who are in the top 5 are in the championship hunt. 

Right now, this is where we are:

 

We are the worst team in the top 10.. but I expect this to hold up if we keep going in this direction. 

 

[NBASupes]

12 hours ago, shakes said:

It won’t lead to a title, but at least it will be fun to watch.    Definitely better than the current plan whatever that is.

What we doing now isn't gonna to lead us to anything but a 8th seed. 

 

We aren't even atruly great offense 

[theheroatl]

We don't need to sugar coat this team..

 

We suck big time on defense.. we need at least 3-4 players swapped out for stud defenders to make a difference here. If you look at who contributes offensively we will be fine if strategically swap players.

[macdaddy]

13 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Hunter $20mil...Siakam $37 mil......Hawks need to add more salary. who else are you adding to make up the $17 mil shortfall.

actually we only need to send out about $30 million right because we're 7m under.  patty&aj or patty&mathews&bruno

[ShooterSays]

The big question that needs to be answered first is can you win with a backcourt of Trae & Dejounte (who are like 40% of you salary combined and will be even more once DJ's extension hits).

So far...the answer to that is no, especially on defense. Something has to change there or it doesn't really matter what trade this team does. We'll still be middle of the road.

 

 

[kg01]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

actually we only need to send out about $30 million right because we're 7m under.  patty&aj or patty&mathews&bruno

Oh snap, @Spud2nique macd is going to warr with jburd over cap numbers.

Somebody cue up Charlie Puth .. "it's been a lo-ong day ... withoutchu my friend.  I'mma tell you all about it when I see you again..." 

[Spud2nique]

15 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Oh snap, @Spud2nique macd is going to warr with jburd over cap numbers.

Somebody cue up Charlie Puth .. "it's been a lo-ong day ... withoutchu my friend.  I'mma tell you all about it when I see you again..." 

Can we call in legend Hawksfanatic Baaaab fa dis?  

#letsgetreadytorumble

[AHF]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

actually we only need to send out about $30 million right because we're 7m under.  patty&aj or patty&mathews&bruno

And to get Toronto to bite on a Hunter / Patty / Matthews / Bruno deal you are including what 3 first round picks or something?  AJ hasn't helped his trade stock this season but at least he should be an attractive piece.  But I fear how many picks they will want without better talent being included.

Toronto has built up the expectations of their fan base to unreasonable levels for expected return in a Siakam trade.  Not sure if they will be willing to take a JC type of let down trade (which is how I think a Hunter / AJ / Patty deal would look to the fans).

[macdaddy]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

And to get Toronto to bite on a Hunter / Patty / Matthews / Bruno deal you are including what 3 first round picks or something?  AJ hasn't helped his trade stock this season but at least he should be an attractive piece.  But I fear how many picks they will want without better talent being included.

Toronto has built up the expectations of their fan base to unreasonable levels for expected return in a Siakam trade.  Not sure if they will be willing to take a JC type of let down trade (which is how I think a Hunter / AJ / Patty deal would look to the fans).

They have no leverage at this point.  Hunter/aj and a first.  I doubt anyone is offering a lot more.  There's all this fear about what Toronto wants but what they don't want is to have him walk for nothing which is likely to happen.  But there again i have no idea.  Maybe Siakam has more value around the league than i give him credit for.  If that was the case though i think he'd have been gone this summer.  

 

[AHF]

13 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

They have no leverage at this point.  Hunter/aj and a first.  I doubt anyone is offering a lot more.  There's all this fear about what Toronto wants but what they don't want is to have him walk for nothing which is likely to happen.  But there again i have no idea.  Maybe Siakam has more value around the league than i give him credit for.  If that was the case though i think he'd have been gone this summer.  

I think they would have to have some real discussions whether taking a package like that is better than letting him walk.  Hunter has never produced numbers that justify paying him $20M per and could be viewed as a toxic asset if he doesn't step up (certainly if you put up his RAPTOR or WS or WAR, etc. against his salary it is one of the lowest ratios in the league - which is in part because positional defense doesn't show up in those metrics).  AJ has been garbage this year and made some statements that could be viewed as red flags this summer.  A first is a nice additional asset but the odds of it panning out into something significant given where it would likely land are not very high.  Now a GM might take a much more positive view on any or all of those things but I could see a GM asking whether they would want to have living reminders of a bad trade clogging up their roster for the next 3 or so years.

It might be easier for them to simply clear the cap space and tell the fans they did everything they could to keep Siakam but he unreasonably wanted a full max deal which they couldn't justify and walked away.

If they take a deal like that, though, it will definitely make things interesting the rest of the way and will definitely reveal just how critical Hunter is to our team's defense as it will leave us without any big wing defender.  Will put a big load on JJ to try to start defending that position after focusing on PFs this offseason and YTD.

[macdaddy]

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think they would have to have some real discussions whether taking a package like that is better than letting him walk.  Hunter has never produced numbers that justify paying him $20M per and could be viewed as a toxic asset if he doesn't step up (certainly if you put up his RAPTOR or WS or WAR, etc. against his salary it is one of the lowest ratios in the league - which is in part because positional defense doesn't show up in those metrics).  AJ has been garbage this year and made some statements that could be viewed as red flags this summer.  A first is a nice additional asset but the odds of it panning out into something significant given where it would likely land are not very high.  Now a GM might take a much more positive view on any or all of those things but I could see a GM asking whether they would want to have living reminders of a bad trade clogging up their roster for the next 3 or so years.

It might be easier for them to simply clear the cap space and tell the fans they did everything they could to keep Siakam but he unreasonably wanted a full max deal which they couldn't justify and walked away.

If they take a deal like that, though, it will definitely make things interesting the rest of the way and will definitely reveal just how critical Hunter is to our team's defense as it will leave us without any big wing defender.  Will put a big load on JJ to try to start defending that position after focusing on PFs this offseason and YTD.

Yeah that's the part i'm not comfortable with.  We end up with a hole at the 3.  I think there are better ways to go but they aren't as splashy. 

[yungsta]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think they would have to have some real discussions whether taking a package like that is better than letting him walk.  Hunter has never produced numbers that justify paying him $20M per and could be viewed as a toxic asset if he doesn't step up (certainly if you put up his RAPTOR or WS or WAR, etc. against his salary it is one of the lowest ratios in the league - which is in part because positional defense doesn't show up in those metrics).  AJ has been garbage this year and made some statements that could be viewed as red flags this summer.  A first is a nice additional asset but the odds of it panning out into something significant given where it would likely land are not very high.  Now a GM might take a much more positive view on any or all of those things but I could see a GM asking whether they would want to have living reminders of a bad trade clogging up their roster for the next 3 or so years.

It might be easier for them to simply clear the cap space and tell the fans they did everything they could to keep Siakam but he unreasonably wanted a full max deal which they couldn't justify and walked away.

If they take a deal like that, though, it will definitely make things interesting the rest of the way and will definitely reveal just how critical Hunter is to our team's defense as it will leave us without any big wing defender.  Will put a big load on JJ to try to start defending that position after focusing on PFs this offseason and YTD.

Siakiam on a max is better than pure cap space IMO especially for a non FA destination like Toronto. We seen plenty of times in the past few seasons that there is no such thing as an unmovable contract especially if its a player who is an all star or produces close to an all star level that can help a contender make a title run.

The competition at the top of the standings is fierce and there is no team that is clearly title favorites so multiple teams could bid for his services in a trade.

The raptors could also easily just keep Siakiam, he isn't toxic to their work environment like a James Harden/Kyrie Irving so there is no rush to kick him off the team.

We don't have much leverage as some would think.

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, yungsta said:

Siakiam on a max is better than pure cap space IMO especially for a non FA destination like Toronto. We seen plenty of times in the past few seasons that there is no such thing as an unmovable contract especially if its a player who is an all star or produces close to an all star level that can help a contender make a title run.

The competition at the top of the standings is fierce and there is no team that is clearly title favorites so multiple teams could bid for his services in a trade.

The raptors could also easily just keep Siakiam, he isn't toxic to their work environment like a James Harden/Kyrie Irving so there is no rush to kick him off the team.

We don't have much leverage as some would think.

Very true.  Keeping him is an option especially with him proclaiming that he wants to stay there 4eva and all.  I do think he is a risk on a max deal if his performance drops off as he enters his 30's.  That is their dilemma.  They have some real talent but several upcoming FAs and they are not on track to make the playoffs (both by record and by indicators like expected wins or net rating, etc.).  I think they are really struggling where they go from here and, of course, that really centers on what to do with Siakam and OG as they prepare to enter UFA.  

[Gray Mule]

Siakiam rental for the remainder of this season - - What is this worth to the Hawks?