Hawks looking to trade

[JayBirdHawk]

9 hours ago, Jody23 said:

I think trading Bogi would be a mistake.

If AJ had progressed as many of us hoped, it might be in consideration.

[JayBirdHawk]

7 hours ago, Diesel said:

I can see Caruso for Mills and 2 1st.

 He's not worth 2 1sts, no matter how protected. It's put too much limitations on future moves. 

[sturt]

 

Again, I have no opinion on any proposed trade, but I'm marveling at the intelligent humor offered by Jay even as I'm also simultaneously marveling at the substance of that humor.

 

I mean... look, it's one thing to indulge Tony Ressler and just admit to oneself that, just as All My Children or Days of Our Lives never had any real expectation for soap opera addicts that there would be any final ultimate sweet mountaintop experience, Hawks basketball just happens to be my chosen dopamine rush, my chosen personal daily rollercoaster, and I don't even care that the producers/owners have no such "vision" for the show but to keep making money off of my devotion to the show...

That's fine. That's a lucid, sober mentality. Good for you.

 

It's quite another to be willfully blind to that after two salary dump trades in two consecutive off-seasons with zero on-court talent return... and to approach the topic of Hawks basketball as-if there's some "vision" other than what Captain Obvious endorses.

That's not healthy. Just sayin.

[kg01]

6 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

But the outsiders don’t like Derozan? Do we?

I on't know, at this point we gotta do something different I guess. 

[yungsta]

30 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 He's not worth 2 1sts, no matter how protected. It's put too much limitations on future moves. 

Not only that but what I don't understand is where Caurso mins are going to come from so he can make some kind of franchise changing defensive impact that some people think he can.

We already invested heavily in the guard position with Trae and Murrary occupying the guard slots playing 35-38 mins ish per game and Hunter is guaranteed to play 28-30 ish mins at the SF slot.

So Caurso will be a back-up playing 20 mins on this team who will mostly like be on the bench during crunch time and this doesn't fix the fact that our starters are the ones that are putting us in a big defensive hole early in the game that we constantly have to fight out of.

A very head scratching move.

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by yungsta

[AHF]

9 hours ago, theheroatl said:

The better stats is players defended.

 

also nobody really knows what a deal ends up.. I doubt FRPs really are in play here

I think everyone would be much closer to your side if not on it if you were suggesting the firsts come out of the deal.  Two firsts is a big ask in any deal let alone one that is reasonably balanced when they are completely removed.

[Atlantaholic]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think everyone would be much closer to your side if not on it if you were suggesting the firsts come out of the deal.  Two firsts is a big ask in any deal let alone one that is reasonably balanced when they are completely removed.

Of course, Bogi for Caruso straight up would be worth considering, but adding two firsts on top is madness. 

[AHF]

Just now, Atlantaholic said:

Of course, Bogi for Caruso straight up would be worth considering, but adding two firsts on top is madness. 

But you did quote two firsts and Bogi for Caruso and respond with “I’ll take it.”  You can understand some of us taking that to mean you thought it was a good idea.

Frankly, I am kind of shocked we haven’t flipped a second to get someone like Delon Wright.  Wizards don’t need him.  We don’t have too many minutes at guard available but that seems like a good match.

[macdaddy]

49 minutes ago, AHF said:

Frankly, I am kind of shocked we haven’t flipped a second to get someone like Delon Wright.  Wizards don’t need him.  We don’t have too many minutes at guard available but that seems like a good match.

Yeah.  other guys i'd be interested in are Finney-Smith, Burks, and the other Bogie (long shot). 

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

I on't know, at this point we gotta do something different I guess. 

That’s Thanksgiving stress talking lol give it a week you ain’t gonna want the x Rap.

[JeffS17]

3 hours ago, sturt said:

 

Again, I have no opinion on any proposed trade, but I'm marveling at the intelligent humor offered by Jay even as I'm also simultaneously marveling at the substance of that humor.

 

I mean... look, it's one thing to indulge Tony Ressler and just admit to oneself that, just as All My Children or Days of Our Lives never had any real expectation for soap opera addicts that there would be any final ultimate sweet mountaintop experience, Hawks basketball just happens to be my chosen dopamine rush, my chosen personal daily rollercoaster, and I don't even care that the producers/owners have no such "vision" for the show but to keep making money off of my devotion to the show...

That's fine. That's a lucid, sober mentality. Good for you.

 

It's quite another to be willfully blind to that after two salary dump trades in two consecutive off-seasons with zero on-court talent return... and to approach the topic of Hawks basketball as-if there's some "vision" other than what Captain Obvious endorses.

That's not healthy. Just sayin.

If you don't care about Hawks basketball anymore, just leave it at that -- why do you feel compelled to come into these threads and spread your misery to others?  Why are you so interested that others share your persistent pessimism related to the team?  Are you actually happier with your additional free time, or is it now important to you that others share your aura of pessimism and defeat?

[JTB]

12 hours ago, sturt said:

Yes, I'll visit here on occasion, but notice if you will, all of the discussions I give any response are about something other than the team's status... ignorance is bliss.

Well excuse the f**k out of me !!!  

 

I had no clue you didn’t watch the games. Now that is ignorance at its best ! How do you not watch the games ?????

I now know to ignore your every post. 

Just now, JTB said:

Well excuse the f**k out of me !!!  

 

I had no clue you didn’t watch the games. Now that is ignorance at its best ! How do you not watch the games ?????

I now know to ignore your every post. 

@sturt only joking by the way.

[Diesel]

9 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Awful.

Using 2 firsts like this is absurd. We'd have zero trade flexibility going forward. DDR is a FA and 34 years. Not good asset management.

you act as if dd doesnt come off the books next year.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

you act as if dd doesnt come off the books next year.

That's even worse to give up 2 firsts, particularly since we already owe 2 in 2025 and 2027 - just bad assest management. 

[JayBirdHawk]

20 hours ago, yungsta said:

I think its because of the guard rotation. Trae and Murray are starting and are going to get 35-40 mins each at PG/SG every night and Bogi gets remaining 25 ish mins. If we trade for another guard like Caurso. One of them has to go.

I've been thinking about this -  With JJ out until 2024, you trade guys like Patty and Garrison for Caruso, not Bogi.

Bogi plays more minutes at SF since Bey is starting.  Not ideal since we lack size, but if we aren't trading for size, improve the relative depth at other positions.

[Phunkabilly]

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I've been thinking about this -  With JJ out until 2024, you trade guys like Patty and Garrison for Caruso, not Bogi.

Bogi plays more minutes at SF since Bey is starting.  Not ideal since we lack size, but if we aren't trading for size, improve the relative depth at other positions.

My thoughts exactly.  Free up minutes for Caruso by letting Bogi play the 3 more and giving Bey/Hunter more time at the 4 and less time at the 3.  But oooooffff, would we be small.  Wonder if Quin would experiment more with OO at the 4 and Capela at the 5 in the scenario where Bogi is our 3 to get a little more size on the floor.

[sturt]

22 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

If you don't care about Hawks basketball anymore, just leave it at that -- why do you feel compelled to come into these threads and spread your misery to others?  Why are you so interested that others share your persistent pessimism related to the team?  Are you actually happier with your additional free time, or is it now important to you that others share your aura of pessimism and defeat?

 

 

Answering your questions straight-up, respectfully, no snark or insult necessary over here on my side, though it's a free country and we all get to choose our approach, of course...

Q1: Why do I feel compelled to "spread your misery to others"...?

A1a. It makes sense to me that it must not be miserable for those for whom it's not miserable. So, for that subset, it's a false premise. These are the people who I just described... they are fully lucid about the situation, and honest with themselves that this is simply how they've chosen to be entertained nonetheless. Having an owner whose paramount goal is to use the team as a cash cow does not eliminate the possibility that the team would somehow still find a way to summit Everest and enjoy that sweet orgasmic feeling of a downtown parade. It just makes it more ambitious, more unlikely. "Oh well," they say. There remains some moments of joy to be had in the daily soap opera anyhow, and with that, there remains hope.

 

A1b.  Another subset is at the other side of the Venn diagram. They already are miserable. So again, there's a false premise there--one cannot "spread" something that is already present. These also are fully lucid about the situation. And unlike the first group, they are not content. They see the cold reality and if they have not already quit, they are working on summoning up the will power. But we all know, there's an aspect of this that's like being addicted to a drug when you've went years if not decades getting dopamine rushes from this stuff. They are as upset about the futility as anyone, but not only are they enmeshed with the team, some even have these fan-to-fan relationships that it's difficult to let go of.

And it's reasonable to believe that, among that group, the posts you reference can be both sweet and salty. Salty, in that, they're reminded of why they feel so miserable; sweet, in that, there's something to be said for being reassured that there are people like yourself, and who've jumped overboard and able to testify that the water feels fine.

 

A1c. Did someone say "A1c?" These are the diabetics.

I kid. I kid.

This middle of the Venn diagram is characterized by vacillation and by a private face and a public face. They occasionally find something to feel genuinely good about, but most days feel miserable. And/but that misery hides behind a mask of "Nah, it's fine." Of "I'm okay, you're okay." They understand the reality like the previous group, but unlike the previous group, they're not going to let themselves go "there," at least, in any public way... or, at most, very rarely when they feel forced into a corner. These are the Hawks/Hamsters junkies who know they themselves can't let go, even as they also know, mixing metaphors, that the journey to Everest is now complicated by a consequential change, ie, since an avalanche has mostly eliminated the most conventional path to the summit. So while they feel especially miserable, that's compounded by the idea "we can't be transparent about this reality... it's bad enough a situation as-is, but worse if, even just incrementally, my brothers/sisters start giving up and abandoning the cause... misery, yes, loves company."

 

A1d. There is one more group, but they're not even in either circle. That group is defined by their lack of misery... by default, contentment... due to lack of recognizing the situation for what it is.

 

So. The posts you reference have no real effect on the first group. The posts are not emotionally pleasant to the second group, but are rationally reassuring. The posts are fingernails on a chalkboard to the third group... I get it. But the posts are most justified because that fourth group exists even 5 months later evidently.

That's "why."

 

Q2: Why are you so interested that others share your persistent pessimism related to the team?

A2. Feel like this question is mostly a intertwined with the first, so it's essentially already been addressed... except, that is, for this "persistent pessimism" part.

Is it accurate to say I'm "persistently pessimistic" where it concerns the team? No and yes.

Let's remember, as a preface to what I'm about to say, that muah has been a consistently positive glass-half-full proponent of this roster for all this time... and add to that, that muah was as over-the-moon as anyone with the hiring of Quin the Eskimo Snyder. When a majority here were demanding after the 6th game loss to BOS a major move for a new consequential talent, I was among the few making the case that the team would benefit from a tweak and not much more.

And so, I've said multiple times (put the search engine to use if you doubt me) that I felt that the team--with its new coach and good health and maybe one surprise better-than-anticipated asset--plausibly could still yet achieve something special after all. I still believe that, but I'm just not going to be seduced into riding the ride this time... and for that matter, for awhile unless/until it seems my team of 50+ years isn't having to win in spite of its owner's True to Atlanta fraud.

So, no, not pessimistic as-if I feel pumped to watch the team fail. That's simply not true. I'm not going to invest my heart in them, but I still want them to succeed if they can, just as I still want my friends here to be able to enjoy that success.

But yes in the sense, obviously, that Peter Antony Ressler's thinking and behavior inherently makes it harder to achieve... and that's not my fault, that's his. Blame him, the guy who it now has come to light was a fake all along about caring most to bring a championship to Atlanta... not me. I'm just the guy, or one of the guys, who noticed the emperor's lack of clothing and is pissed off to have given him the benefit of a doubt all these years. I mean, you have to know that among the things I hate most over time has been when passive aggressive, glass-half-empty Jay turns out to be right about something, when I'd been among those who... adamantly... argued that the glass was half full if we just gave it enough time.

 

Q3: Am I happier? (Or is it the case I'm needing to make others miserable in order to achieve a desirable level of happiness?)

To the second question, again, see answers to Question 1... covered that, though I'll add that I like you people as a rule... I've abandoned following the team for reasons well-rehearsed by now, but that doesn't mean that the only thing anyone on Hawksquawk ever talks about is the current status of the team... and so, I've continued to visit and to participate in conversations that aren't actually applicable to the team's performance.

To the first, yes. I am.

 

To what I think might be the point of that question, allow me to highlight some quick math I just did.

Since June 26, I've posted...

• 57 posts speaking to the Hawks' owner's bad faith in some fashion
• 43 political posts
• 32 posts about anything else... ranging from happy birthdays to uniform/jersey fashion to the ethics of imposing on an NBA legend's brand

You may look at that and say, "Dang... 57... that's a lot." Or you may look at that and say, "I'm surprised. I figured about 85% of your posts targeted Ressler's decisions." (It's half that, of course.)

 

How about you? Since June 26, you've posted...

500+ posts, or almost 10 for every single one of the number of posts you're voicing objection to. And that's just you. One person.

I could go look it up, but I won't bother... obviously, then, there are thousands upon thousands of posts, an ocean of posts that have been submitted for public viewing in the past 150-ish days.

My point in citing that math is this: It's not as-if these posts represent some terrible imposition, even if they are nails on a chalkboard to one particular subset of the congregation gathered here.

 

Summing up and getting out of your hair... at least for now... I'm a proud contributor to the Tell It Like It Is PAC. And that's a virtuous principle even outside of politics, in my opinion.

 

[terrell]

On 11/27/2023 at 6:15 PM, Sothron said:

The whisper is bogi and two first for Caruso and pat Williams 

[Plainview1981]

On 11/27/2023 at 8:01 PM, NBASupes said:

Caruso for a 1st is tough 

Caruso for two 1sts is idiotic 

Caruso for Bogi and two 1sts is a fireable offense. 

Treat one of the few guys that has done his job as trade fodder, and keep all the the underperformers. I don't think management has a clue. This core is done.

I go back to Schlenk. What a terrible GM.

OO is mediocre, Cam busted, Hunter is just a 3D player and Trae was a mistake. Cap was good for a season and a half. Or whatever.

JJ was solid before getting hurt, but eh... This team needs a lot better than Alex Caruso to get better.

[terrell]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I've been thinking about this -  With JJ out until 2024, you trade guys like Patty and Garrison for Caruso, not Bogi.

Bogi plays more minutes at SF since Bey is starting.  Not ideal since we lack size, but if we aren't trading for size, improve the relative depth at other positions.

"If we arent trading for size"

Then any trade we make is pointless.. smh