This team needs to make some moves. SERIOUSLY!

[Joker]

I was reevaluating the roster again. I liked some of what I saw. Josh Smith is still the same player talent and skill wise but he has greatly improved his attitude. I have never been a fan of Smith. His game is too inconsistent, he has low offensive BBIQ, and he’s not a championship player. I do love how talented he is and how versatile he is. I was on the do not resign Josh Smith bus when he was a FA till the final month as I changed my mind since it seemed like we weren’t going to get the player we really need in place of Smith.

Al Horford- Incomplete. Hurt.

Joe Johnson- He is no longer a Robin in my eyes. He is becoming a role player. This is scary to say the least. He should completely fall from grace in three seasons.

Jeff Teague- He showed he has very good talent.

Problems- He doesn’t fit. He’s not a true PG nor does he have passing ability, playmaking skills, or the ability to run an offense. He does more harm than good in each possession. His man defense is very good but his team defense is very bad. I am worried in this system and our personnel that he’s bound to peak at Devin Harris level. Teague mentality is what bothers me the most. He is mentally weak. His confidence swings like a hurricane. It’s hard seeing Jeff reach his potential. It’s really hard seeing Jeff reach his potential in this offense with our personnel. To me mentality is harder to overcome than Josh’s issues. Because, you just don’t wake up generally and mentally change. Marvin is not going to wake up tomorrow and say, I want to be a star all season long. Could it? yes. Will it? no.

Kirk Hinrich- Kirk has been hurt. When he has played he showed great defensive abilities and not such a good offensive player. I still see more positive possessions from Hinrich than Teague by a large margin. At this point of his career, Hinrich is a role player. Best on a team like LAL where he can be a 5^th option on offense. Atlanta offense is a highly PG dominate offense and you need a PG who can create for himself or others, pass, run the offense, and be able to control tempo. This is the same system, New Orleans, Cleveland, Dallas, Utah, and New York have. I keep hearing about D’Antoni offense needing a PG but the teams I listed ALL need PG's as well. They just don’t get attention nationally.

Marvin- He has been good this season. He is very talented but his mentality, drive, and will is bad. He will likely never be more passionate about the game but he can play. He’s a good offensive talent and a very good defensive talent. Has a history with his back.

Zaza- He has probably been the most improved player on the Hawks this year. He is now an average NBA center. He still isn’t a legit starter to me.

Ivan- He is a keeper. He needs to play 10-15 min for now.

The bench mob- T-Mac is finished as a starter but as a 12-18 min guy, he is still good for. Pargo is an below average PG. Green is a below average SG. Stack sucks. Rad is a below average PF. Damp sucks.

ASG and Sund- They suck. They really do. They really don't understand how bad this is to watch. We greatly need to make a move that doesn't effect the core and not a stupid one either. As for Sund. I like the Hinrich move. It made sense and still does. We needed someone who can play PG. The problem is our offense is one where the PG is ball dominate and Hinrich isn't that type of player on offense. Hinrich on defense was a major upgrade and a big reason why we beat Orlando. I like him passing on Jamal as well. I like all of Sund's move so far but his worst move is no move if he doesn't make a trade at the deadline.

I created a trade thread on moves we should make:

http://hawksquawk.ne...erall-upgrades/

Needs

• Point Guard. We need someone who’s a starter. I don’t care if it’s Nash, Lin, Mayo(serious gem used wrong in system. ex. Billups, Z-Bo, etc), Lowry, Rubio, Wall, or Deron.
  
• Center. We need a starting quality center. He needs size. We can’t get Dwight so we aren’t getting anyone dominate and demanding but I hope we get someone decent.
  
• More depth at SG and SF. I feel we can get younger at these positions.
  
• We need to move from Joe as the #1 option but we don’t have any choices. Teague, no. Smith, too inconsistent. Hinrich, no. Horford, hurt and no. Ugh…
  

Edited February 18, 2012 by nbasuperstar40

[Joker]

The bottom-line is we need to add to the core of Horford, Joe, and Smith. Not take away since we aren't getting Dwight. I don't see Jeff as a core piece. I don't see Marvin as a core piece. Hinrich is close to a core piece but he is also expendable.

[frankthetank966]

The bottom-line is we need to add to the core of Horford, Joe, and Smith. Not take away since we aren't getting Dwight. I don't see Jeff as a core piece. I don't see Marvin as a core piece. Hinrich is close to a core piece but he is also expendable.

Kurt Hinrich has not accomplished anything since being a Hawk. Give it up.

[Joker]

Kurt Hinrich has not accomplished anything since being a Hawk. Give it up.

Hinrich has helped the defense tremendously. Hinrich knows how to run an offense. Hinrich is a high BBIQ player. Hinrich will never be what we need for this offense because he doesn't have the ability to be that. To say that he hasn't accomplished anything is nonsense Frank. He is the ONLY reason why we beat Orlando. Dwight was going to get his no matter what. Jameer is the one who normally kills us and Hinrich shut him down when he was in the game. Jameer went off on Jamal and Jeff.

Hinrich like Marvin get a severely bad rap on this site. They do a lot that doesn't appear on the stat sheet. Atlanta needs more talent to be honest. That's why posters aren't appreciating what those two do for the team. Hinrich this season has been struggling to find his shot but he didn't get a preseason and what not. He will be back to his 7-13 ppg status.

I would love to keep Hinrich to be honest and I would start him over Jeff. Both aren't good starters for what our system does but if I had to choose, I'll go with the vet.

[capstone21]

Hinrich has helped the defense tremendously. Hinrich knows how to run an offense. Hinrich is a high BBIQ player. Hinrich will never be what we need for this offense because he doesn't have the ability to be that. To say that he hasn't accomplished anything is nonsense Frank. He is the ONLY reason why we beat Orlando. Dwight was going to get his no matter what. Jameer is the one who normally kills us and Hinrich shut him down when he was in the game. Jameer went off on Jamal and Jeff.

Hinrich like Marvin get a severely bad rap on this site. They do a lot that doesn't appear on the stat sheet. Atlanta needs more talent to be honest. That's why posters aren't appreciating what those two do for the team. Hinrich this season has been struggling to find his shot but he didn't get a preseason and what not. He will be back to his 7-13 ppg status.

I would love to keep Hinrich to be honest and I would start him over Jeff. Both aren't good starters for what our system does but if I had to choose, I'll go with the vet.

I agree with you...Hinrich is a better pg then Teague but Teague is now the better player. Teague is more of a scorer and I like our offense better when Hinrich is out there. I always prefer playmakers at the PG position to a score first pg. They make their team better

[Joker]

I agree with you...Hinrich is a better pg then Teague but Teague is now the better player. Teague is more of a scorer and I like our offense better when Hinrich is out there. I always prefer playmakers at the PG position to a score first pg. They make their team better

I agree that playmakers make their team better and have more positive possessions on average than PG's with limited PG skills.

I like Hinrich more but neither of these guys are playmakers. Neither are good passers. Neither create for others. Neither force a defense hand. Both are combo guards with limited PG skills who are safe with the Basketball. Hinrich just happens to be a lot smarter and knows how to run an offense. Teague is not really a scoring guard. He doesn't have a scoring mentality. He's more of a jack of all trades on offense and a very good man defender on defense. I

[Bawse]

Kurt Hinrich has not accomplished anything since being a Hawk. Give it up.

Did you watch the playoffs last year when we played the Magic?

[Duff_Man]

So all our players suck. Got it.

[Joker]

So all our players suck. Got it.

No.

We just need more talent or a player with star talent for our team. Look at Jeremy Lin. Overnight he changed NYK realistic hopes. They are now a contender. Atlanta is a pretender. They don't have a #1 option. They don't have a good PG for their system nor do they have a true center. Horford is a very good player but he's not a great center. Teague is just an average PG and really is an average player who is very talented. We need someone who is extremely talented but FITS our system.

I feel if we do that, once Horford gets back, we will be contenders, not this bullsh!t that we are right now.

[Joker]

We need a Jeremy Lin. Someone with a lot of talent who FITS our system which is very similar to NY and can be a LEGIT #1 option or someone like Monta Ellis. Without trading Al, Josh, or Joe. There is no big I see on the market outside of Dwight that's available without trading Al, Josh, or Joe.

Edited February 18, 2012 by nbasuperstar40

[Duff_Man]

We need a Jeremy Lin. Someone with a lot of talent who FITS our system which is very similar to NY and can be a LEGIT #1 option or someone like Monta Ellis. Without trading Al, Josh, or Joe. There is no big I see on the market outside of Dwight that's available without trading Al, Josh, or Joe.

So you think 45 turnovers in 7 games is acceptable? Stop falling for the flash in the pan stuff. It's a good story but let's not lose our heads.

[Joker]

So you think 45 turnovers in 7 games is acceptable? Stop falling for the flash in the pan stuff. It's a good story but let's not lose our heads.

I watched each one of those games from beginning to end.

Half of those turnovers is him trying to do too much, it will come down with experience.

The other half was simple things bother by fatigue and decision making.

The reason why he's for real is three reasons.

1. His ability and talent. This is something he has over most he has a lot of ability and talent.

2. His fit for the system and his positive plays to negative plays is off the charts. He has so many positive plays it ridiculous. If you watched the game, you would know that the hype is real. He really is that good. This is what separates the Devin Harris's from Jeremy Lin and Russell Westbrook's of the world. They have so many positive plays that even though their skill-set is high risk, their have a very high reward. While Devin Harris has average reward but it isn't above average risk due to the fact that Harris doesn't have a large % in positive plays like Lin or Westbrook. Harris doesn't turn the ball over that much but he doesn't have a lot of positive plays either. There is a reason why Utah is shopping him while NY or OKC wouldn't trade Lin or Russell.

3. He makes his team A LOT better. He puts players in a better position. Teams ACTUALLY HAVE TO GAMEPLAN FOR HIM. Not just read the scouting report, but gameplan for him. I will up your post a couple months from now to see if you still believe that he is a flash in a pan player.

The Hawks need to get a #1 option. They need to get a PG who is actually good for this system. The Hawks need a true center, he doesn't even have to be good. At this point, I would take Boris Diaw or Camby.

[Duff_Man]

You're missing two things here:

1. His assist to turnover ratio is horrendous.

2. They have no Carmelo, which is making them a better team. People ignore that fact, but it's true.

[Joker]

You're missing two things here:

1. His assist to turnover ratio is horrendous.

2. They have no Carmelo, which is making them a better team. People ignore that fact, but it's true.

Carmelo is not a negative player. He's not Antoine Walker and don't make him out to be one. He has a positive impact on every team he's been on. Denver made it to the WCF with him. They won 14 games, drafted him and was a playoff team overnight. Melo is legit. Saying what you said is stupid.

So what that his A/T ratio is high. Jose Calderon has one of the best in the NBA. You need to be able to have an impact. This game is about possessions. Whoever has the most positive possessions usually wins. That's why Superstars are superstars. They have the most positive possessions and they lead teams to victory. A/T ratio is stupid if the player has other legit numbers that proves his overall impact. D. Wade always has a high A/T ratio. So did MJ before he moved to SG. Gilbert Arenas as well. Yes, I would prefer Steve Nash but when you got a guy who can drop 20-25, 8-13 dimes, and get 3-5 rebs, you got a player who makes a lot of positive plays. We don't have that guy. NY didn't either. I keep hearing they needed a PG. They got the same Bibby we had who was doing a marginal job and he completely SUCKED with them. Our team is EXTREMELY talented but if we had someone like Lin, we would be deadly especially once Al returns. We run a lot of PnR's, not effectively but with the right player we could be successful.

Edited February 18, 2012 by nbasuperstar40

[Gray Mule]

Sure. All of us wish we had an all star at every position.

Look at how bad we are at every position. Then, tell everyone. how do we trade

all these sorry, underpreforming players for twelve all star players?

There must be a way, else why bring it up? What NBA team is so dumb that

they will trade their great, all star players to Atlanta for their trash?

Seriously, if we're so bad why aren't we behind Charlotte in the standings?

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[Plainview1981]

Hinrich has helped the defense tremendously. Hinrich knows how to run an offense. Hinrich is a high BBIQ player. Hinrich will never be what we need for this offense because he doesn't have the ability to be that. To say that he hasn't accomplished anything is nonsense Frank. He is the ONLY reason why we beat Orlando. Dwight was going to get his no matter what. Jameer is the one who normally kills us and Hinrich shut him down when he was in the game. Jameer went off on Jamal and Jeff.

Hinrich like Marvin get a severely bad rap on this site. They do a lot that doesn't appear on the stat sheet. Atlanta needs more talent to be honest. That's why posters aren't appreciating what those two do for the team. Hinrich this season has been struggling to find his shot but he didn't get a preseason and what not. He will be back to his 7-13 ppg status.

I would love to keep Hinrich to be honest and I would start him over Jeff. Both aren't good starters for what our system does but if I had to choose, I'll go with the vet.

Marvin gets a bad rep because he is a bad player. He should be the 9th man at best. He is the most expendable guy in the starting line up by far and I think think he would be a disappointment even if he was drafted 10-15th. He mixes in 2 or 3 offense games with about 8-10 games of bench player production.

We need a Jeremy Lin. Someone with a lot of talent who FITS our system which is very similar to NY and can be a LEGIT #1 option or someone like Monta Ellis. Without trading Al, Josh, or Joe. There is no big I see on the market outside of Dwight that's available without trading Al, Josh, or Joe.

Jeremy Lin wouldn't be as good for us as he has been for NY. Mike's offense allows for some recklessness. The Hawks couldn't afford his 6 turnovers per game. Lin is on the right team with the right coach. It wouldn't be the same here.

[Joker]

Marvin gets a bad rep because he is a bad player. He should be the 9th man at best. He is the most expendable guy in the starting line up by far and I think think he would be a disappointment even if he was drafted 10-15th. He mixes in 2 or 3 offense games with about 8-10 games of bench player production.

Jeremy Lin wouldn't be as good for us as he has been for NY. Mike's offense allows for some recklessness. The Hawks couldn't afford his 6 turnovers per game. Lin is on the right team with the right coach. It wouldn't be the same here.

Lin would be a great fit here. Atlanta can afford turnovers if he's creating plays, scoring 20-25 ppg, getting 7-12 apg, and 3-5 rpg. Atlanta can't afford turnovers from Teague though. He has FAR too many negative plays as it is.

On Marvin, I disagree. His cuts, shooting, screen on the backside, running the offense like it's real, just doing the dirty work is one of the most underrated aspect of his game. I completely disagree with you on Marvin. He would be a better fit in Memphis where the ball actually moves and isn't guard dominant like Atlanta. LD offense is only as effective as the PG. If the PG isn't a threat, the offense isn't sh*t. Basically like NY, CLE, and PHX.

Lin or someone like him would be a better fit here than in NY while playing with Horford. With Zaza and Josh, maybe not.

Edited February 18, 2012 by nbasuperstar40

[Joker]

I see Gray said I think we need a team full of all stars. The only All Star level player on this team is Horford. The rest is questionable. Smith has the talent but not the consistency. Joe has the name but not the game. He really shouldn't be an All Star. I think last year and this year he got in by default. Jeff needs to play in Memphis, Orlando, SAS, LAL to reach his potential. Offenses that aren't PG predicated.

[Joker]

I think this team is extremely close to contending. Here is all we need.

We just need another big but with size. If it's Kyrylo Fesenko, fine. That's what Atlanta needs. As long as he is a below average to average center with size.

The biggest need is getting a PG like Jeremy Lin. Someone who can score 20-27 ppg, get 7-12 apg, and 2-4rpg. That's our biggest need. That would solve our PG issue and #1 option issue. If the guy is turnover prone, it doesn't matter. As long as he is comfortable with the ball and he has court vision. Can run a solid PnR. We need the impact.

We answer those two questions. We have a contender who can really win it all any given year.

Both are available for a discounted rate so if Atlanta f**ks this up, it's their fault.

Gearon and Levenson, you know you f**ked up the Dwight rental. It would be in our best interest as a franchise to make this move.

Edited February 18, 2012 by nbasuperstar40

[Randy]

If we had a center who played the position as well as Teague plays pg, we would be a better team. That's the most crying need. I agree with Gray Mule - we've got a good record, this is a good team. It won't be a great team unless you can do something no NBA GM can do - trade regular players for star players, and wipe out our salary cap problems. But that ain't going to happen. Don't get me wrong -I am not super happy because we had our chance to get those guys when we had lottery picks year after year and drafted the wrong guys and we spent too much probably for the wrong guys. So as I see it, we either stick with a team that will have a better than average record but not be a contender (absent a perfect storm of good luck) or blow the team up and start over. Who is to say that 7 years from now we wouldn't have the same problems?