Official Game Thread: Pacers at Hawks

[StephenHawking]

And honestly I'm not sure how good of a coach Bud really is. Hes unable to adjust his schemes to any circumstances. It seems like hes blind sometimes honestly. 

[nathan2331]

 

 

And rightfully so if he doesn't display more consistency. Going forward you need to see him develop his game, not regressing. 

His game is only as good as his deep midrange/3 ball shooting percentage. 

Right now when he's missing literally every shot outside of 4ft he's way too easy to defend. 

Also really alarming is how he's not been any clutch this year at all. He regressed mightily in that area.

 

 

I'm not trying to be an apologist for all the Hawks shortcomings, but on a losing team how hard should he play every night? His shooting does need to get better, and I'm sure he knows it, but I can't get mad that he's not being aggressive attacking the basket right now. He always ends up on the floor yet he doesn't get any calls when he should.

 

I'm not saying he's some superstar that's above the Hawks, but he is the most established starter we've got. If this low effort streak continues for 10-20 games then yeah we've got a problem but its hypocritical for me to criticise him if I'm rooting for a Hawks loss most nights.

[StephenHawking]

vor 1 Minute, nathan2331 sagte:

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not trying to be an apologist for all the Hawks shortcomings, but on a losing team how hard should he play every night? His shooting does need to get better, and I'm sure he knows it, but I can't get mad that he's not being aggressive attacking the basket right now. He always ends up on the floor yet he doesn't get any calls when he should.

 

I'm not saying he's some superstar that's above the Hawks, but he is the most established starter we've got. If this low effort streak continues for 10-20 games then yeah we've got a problem but its hypocritical for me to criticise him if I'm rooting for a Hawks loss most nights.

Shooting percentage isn't really a thing of effort, is it? He simply can't knock down wide open spot up 3's. And apparently he neither is able to knock down the occasional midranger out of the PnR anymore. 

Effort would show through careless passing and bad shots. 

[nathan2331]

Crappy game in the second half, and I suppose Dennis should get most of the blame for not getting the offense running. That being said, both Bazemore and Prince were both poor. Neither did much of anything with the ball in their hands. And why Bud hasn't unleashed Collins yet is beyond me. He only missed one shot tonight but we didn't feed him at all. I can stomach losing games, but I'd rather see Collins throw the ball away than see Ilyasova miss a last-second shot because Dennis doesn't feel like playing aggressively.

[Lurker]

Unless you're just a bust, almost every coach has a second year jump. Just something to keep in perspective. 14/15 had the second year jump/us against the world due to the Ferry conspiracy magic.

I don't think we truly know if Bud is great or simply just good. The philosophy is excellent, I won't argue that, but the coaching...we don't know.

[nathan2331]

 

 

Shooting percentage isn't really a thing of effort, is it? He simply can't knock down wide open spot up 3's. And apparently he neither is able to knock down the occasional midranger out of the PnR anymore. 

Effort would show through careless passing and bad shots. 

 

Schröder at the moment is effective only when driving to the basket. He's simply not a good shooter which is OK when he's as effective driving to the rim as he is.

 

I'm bringing up his effort only because he's settling for jumpers or just passing the ball up. He's a liability playing like that and he knows it.

[StephenHawking]

vor 2 Minuten, nathan2331 sagte:

 

 

 

 

Schröder at the moment is effective only when driving to the basket. He's simply not a good shooter which is OK when he's as effective driving to the rim as he is.

 

I'm bringing up his effort only because he's settling for jumpers or just passing the ball up. He's a liability playing like that and he knows it.

But he's only efficent driving to the basket as long as he has the rep of also being able to hit from the elbow. As soon as players figure out he can't hit em as seen in tonights game the whole magic around Dennis game is taken away. If his midranger and 3 continue to regress you'll most likely will see a drop on the layup efficiency sooner or later.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

16 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not trying to be an apologist for all the Hawks shortcomings, but on a losing team how hard should he play every night? His shooting does need to get better, and I'm sure he knows it, but I can't get mad that he's not being aggressive attacking the basket right now. He always ends up on the floor yet he doesn't get any calls when he should.

 

I'm not saying he's some superstar that's above the Hawks, but he is the most established starter we've got. If this low effort streak continues for 10-20 games then yeah we've got a problem but its hypocritical for me to criticise him if I'm rooting for a Hawks loss most nights.

He has to exert a lot of injury just to score the basketball.  He honestly needs to be playing alongside a player like Lance . . a guy who can be a playmaker to set up easier shots for Dennis.   Dennis has been good all year, for the most part.  But like I said, Bud and his mind games is the one that has him in a funk right now, just like last year.  Had he left Dennis alone, and let him do his thing, he'd still be scoring efficiently.  

[StephenHawking]

Budenholzers offense isn't really anything but creating out of the PnR. The other thing we do is pass the ball around the perimeter with no off ball movement until there is 10 secs left on the clock. Then we'll let someone like baze, prince or belli shoot from a handoff. Thats literally our whole offensive sets.

Second set doesn't really work that's why we are solely relying on the PnR. If Dennis plays a$$ we really have nothing left in our bag of tricks. 

Defensively we're just so bad at switching it's hard to look at. Our bigs need 5 seconds to close out on a PNR switch.

If one guy penetrates we have it embedded that the next defender as well as the weakside big close out which usually ends in a wide open 3. There's a reason were that horrid at defending the 3. Its because our whole defense relies on gambling. Gambling through doubling or tripling the ballhandler. Gambling trough playing the passing lanes because can't stay close to the opposing player due to it unabeling us to doubling and tripling the ball handler if he penetrates.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

18 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Unless you're just a bust, almost every coach has a second year jump. Just something to keep in perspective. 14/15 had the second year jump/us against the world due to the Ferry conspiracy magic.

I don't think we truly know if Bud is great or simply just good. The philosophy is excellent, I won't argue that, but the coaching...we don't know.

Bud definitely isn't a great coach.

Good, yes.  Great?  Heck no.

Bud might be above average in developing certain aspects in a player's game.  But a great coach and game manager?  Nah.  He's still the best coach

1 minute ago, StephenHawking said:

Budenholzers offense isn't really anything but creating out of the PnR. The other thing we do is pass the ball around the perimeter with no off ball movement until there is 10 secs left on the clock. Then we'll let someone like baze, prince or belli shoot from a handoff. Thats literally our whole offensive sets.

Second set doesn't really work that's why we are solely relying on the PnR. If Dennis plays a$$ we really have nothing left in our bag of tricks. 

Defensively we're just so bad at switching it's hard to look at. Our bigs need 5 seconds to close out on a PNR switch.

If one guy penetrates we have it embedded that the next defender as well as the weakside big close out which usually ends in a wide open 3. There's a reason were that horrid at defending the 3. Its because our whole defense relies on gambling. Gambling through doubling or tripling the ballhandler. Gambling trough playing the passing lanes because can't stay close to the opposing player due to it unabeling us to doubling and tripling the ball handler if he penetrates.

Great analysis.

[nathan2331]

We should be careful not to overanalyze too much. We're not equipped to win these games, so we have to live with the consequences of tanking.

[nathan2331]

Budenholzers offense isn't really anything but creating out of the PnR. The other thing we do is pass the ball around the perimeter with no off ball movement until there is 10 secs left on the clock. Then we'll let someone like baze, prince or belli shoot from a handoff. Thats literally our whole offensive sets.

Second set doesn't really work that's why we are solely relying on the PnR. If Dennis plays a$$ we really have nothing left in our bag of tricks. 

Defensively we're just so bad at switching it's hard to look at. Our bigs need 5 seconds to close out on a PNR switch.

If one guy penetrates we have it embedded that the next defender as well as the weakside big close out which usually ends in a wide open 3. There's a reason were that horrid at defending the 3. Its because our whole defense relies on gambling. Gambling through doubling or tripling the ballhandler. Gambling trough playing the passing lanes because can't stay close to the opposing player due to it unabeling us to doubling and tripling the ball handler if he penetrates.

We don't have the personnel to do much of anything else. Dennis is the only guy who can create offense consistently. We've got rotational guys playing significant minutes for us. Bud definitely needs to make adjustments to get our wings moving more without the ball, but how much can you expect when the primary objective is to lose games for a lottery pick.

[NBASupes]

The personnel is trash, this is the best they can do

[lethalweapon3]

Postgame thread music!

"My shot's gone cold, I'm wondering why, I can't defend at all..."

"IIIIIIIIII just want to Tank you, for giving me the best dayyyyyy of my liiiiiiiiiiiiife.."

~d1d0

[hazer]

10 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

That was great hearing Nique and Gerald talk about the game. Wish Nique would share more stories. If you weren't a Hawks fan, you'd never know how great he was for the franchise.

 My dad used to take me to Hawks games at the Omni in the early 80s when ‘Nique was highflying.