Young’s off ball movement will determine avg or star path

[JTB]

Being one of the few who loves the Trae Young pick I also seem to have much more faith than most that he’s going to become a star.

but my faith runs solely on traes off ball movement.

 

Much like curry and not to compare but curry became a household name when he got away from the heavy isolation Mark Jackson forced on him and Klay. Though curry always had the off ball movement in his arsenal of offensive weapons it was never properly used until Kerr got to the team.

now Trae hasn’t really displayed off ball movement in his career so far as the ball was in his hands all day long  at Oklahoma so truthfully we honestly don’t know how good or bad Trae is in the area of off ball movement as we have never truly seen him attempt it in an offense but with his lack of size yet with speed and quickness...it’s a perfect weapon for him (just like it is for curry) to squeeze and curl his small frame around screens to get open for clean looks.

i believe Trae is certainly capable of making a decent name for himself as good passer in the nba right from the start and I believe he will show good offensive ability to score in iso as he gets more seasoned BUT to me his path of being a top elite pg all comes to his off ball movement just like curry even if he does become as good of a passer as cp3 or Nash his off ball movement is just as important as his passing!....

so I hope schlenk didn’t just throw that out there when he did mention it in one of his many interviews over the summer....I hope schlenk and especially coach pierce realizes that getting traes off ball movement to be just as dangerous as when he has the ball in his hands ala curry is the key to his stardom path.

 

Call me crazy and I’m fine with that cause boldly (and I stand by this) I believe Trae is fully capable of being what Kobe Bryant was to Michael Jordan but to Curry if that makes sense. I really do and thought this before we drafted him. I’m not saying Trae is just as good or will be cause Kobe was never better than Jordan he just played a very similar style and even MJ said Kobe stole all my moves. To me Trae has the potential to be the (Kobe) to curry. He may be slightly less efficient doing it but he can do it is my belief.

[DBac]

Yeah. A lot of our guards/wings can handle and pass it now so the opportunity will be there for him to improve in that area.

[EazyRoc]

Not only this, but he has to get better finishing in the lane. He struggled with his floater in summer league and will have to continue to adjust to NBA length and athleticism.

[Peoriabird]

26 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

Not only this, but he has to get better finishing in the lane. He struggled with his floater in summer league and will have to continue to adjust to NBA length and athleticism.

This is more of a concern than off the ball movement.  He need to figure out how to finish better around the rim.  Its not so much of him adjusting to the NBA because he wasn't good in college either.  He just needs to work on that aspect of his game more.

[TheFuzz]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

This is more of a concern than off the ball movement.  He need to figure out how to finish better around the rim.  Its not so much of him adjusting to the NBA because he wasn't good in college either.  He just needs to work on that aspect of his game more.

I think if he gets one of the oddball or finishing down he'll be good. If both he'll be a star.

[Watchman]

It is strange that there is discussion of whether he will be a "star" or "average" (no mention of "superstar." ) we tanked then traded down to get an "average" player?  Usually, people are saying not to put too much optimism on a player based on a good summer league performance, not being disappointed by a poor summer league performance.  This is the fruit of our big tank?? At least Schröder was fast. I was disappointed by Trae's mediocre speed. Someone please tell me we didn't lose all those games for an "average" player. Please. 

 

[hazer]

One of the few? I think at least half this board loves the Trae pick. Me included.

[benhillboy]

It takes a special set of traits to move great off-ball.  Outstanding conditioning, upper body toughness to withstand constant chips, and a willingness to run hard knowing you may not receive a pass.  

Many “superstar” players aren’t built for it and their coaches allow them to stand around looking ridiculous.  On the flip side, these are the same guys who get beat constantly off the ball on defense because they don’t value or understand the importance of off ball play as if they haven’t been watching the Spurs and Warriors (sans KD) pile up championships with off ball play as a staple.  Steph has actually fell off from the top guys overall but he still sets screens like a champ for a small guard up there with Lowry and Beverly. Trae can learn everything he needs to know from watching current film from Butler, Klay, and Redick.  Of course Threezus from his heyday.  Jason Tatum has an uncanny sense of when to space the floor or cut hard.  I was watching a replay of 59 year old Jason Terry from this season and he’s still an exemplary off ball team player on both ends.

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, hazer said:

One of the few? I think at least half this board loves the Trae pick. Me included.

Was on party wagon too remember I brought the homemade jerky?

Trae could get beat up early on but it’s all a learning process. How intelligent he is will determine his success. Let the game come to you. Game of instinct and skill and he has both.

 

ATL ? LETS GO!

[EazyRoc]

5 hours ago, hazer said:

One of the few? I think at least half this board loves the Trae pick. Me included.

They’ve came around because they are Hawks fans and want to see him do well. However, most people weren’t happy with the pick and didn’t want Trae leading up to the draft.

[hazer]

36 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

They’ve came around because they are Hawks fans and want to see him do well. However, most people weren’t happy with the pick and didn’t want Trae leading up to the draft.

Again, I wouldn’t say “most people.” Some? Yes. Many? Yes. Most? Naaaa.

[EazyRoc]

1 hour ago, hazer said:

Again, I wouldn’t say “most people.” Some? Yes. Many? Yes. Most? Naaaa.

I think you should revisit the draft threads or post-draft threads.

[KB21]

9 hours ago, Watchman said:

It is strange that there is discussion of whether he will be a "star" or "average" (no mention of "superstar." ) we tanked then traded down to get an "average" player?  Usually, people are saying not to put too much optimism on a player based on a good summer league performance, not being disappointed by a poor summer league performance.  This is the fruit of our big tank?? At least Schröder was fast. I was disappointed by Trae's mediocre speed. Someone please tell me we didn't lose all those games for an "average" player. Please. 

 

I was reading an article a couple of nights ago that Neil Paine wrote discussion how a team is going to have to draft like the Warriors to be able to build a team that can beat the Warriors.  However, in that article, he cites data that shows NBA teams select the right player less than 30% of the time based on their 5 year VORP vs the expectation of that pick.  So, there is less than a 30% chance that Atlanta will even select the right player, and a much less chance that they are lucky enough to get someone that has a generational talent like Steph Curry. 

[macdaddy]

Trae was the guy I wanted even at #3.  The fact we got another pick out of it is awesome.   Trae has a lot to learn.  He's barely out of high school.  But his skills are undeniable.   He'll get there and I think he'll get there quicker than people think.   

[Gray Mule]

9 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I was reading an article a couple of nights ago that Neil Paine wrote discussion how a team is going to have to draft like the Warriors to be able to build a team that can beat the Warriors.  However, in that article, he cites data that shows NBA teams select the right player less than 30% of the time based on their 5 year VORP vs the expectation of that pick.  So, there is less than a 30% chance that Atlanta will even select the right player, and a much less chance that they are lucky enough to get someone that has a generational talent like Steph Curry. 

Yes.  Everyone should, but many don't, believe this.  Less than 30% sounds right.  With all the first round picks every year, and more especially the lottery, why doesn't these teams jump to the front?  Duh! 

There is an old, wise, saying:  "Make your plan.  Work your plan."

In today's modern thinking, everyone expects "Instant" everything from instant grits to instant success in whatever they do.  We all want to eliminate the work.

Hawks, at least, seem to have a plan.  Now, they must work the plan.  We all hope that, in time, this plan will bear fruit.  Time may be our friend or our enemy because, as we do our work, in time, we will discover how everything works out.

GO ATL HAWKS !

PS:  Dream win again!

[NBASupes]

8 hours ago, benhillboy said:

It takes a special set of traits to move great off-ball.  Outstanding conditioning, upper body toughness to withstand constant chips, and a willingness to run hard knowing you may not receive a pass.  

Many “superstar” players aren’t built for it and their coaches allow them to stand around looking ridiculous.  On the flip side, these are the same guys who get beat constantly off the ball on defense because they don’t value or understand the importance of off ball play as if they haven’t been watching the Spurs and Warriors (sans KD) pile up championships with off ball play as a staple.  Steph has actually fell off from the top guys overall but he still sets screens like a champ for a small guard up there with Lowry and Beverly. Trae can learn everything he needs to know from watching current film from Butler, Klay, and Redick.  Of course Threezus from his heyday.  Jason Tatum has an uncanny sense of when to space the floor or cut hard.  I was watching a replay of 59 year old Jason Terry from this season and he’s still an exemplary off ball team player on both ends.

All of this. Trae conditioning has to tremendously improve 

[RedDawg#8]

I think one thing to keep in mind and consider is that Steph was/is a SG. That was his position at Davidson, he was a dead eye shooter Korver-esque and lacked the b-ball skill to create his own shot. When he started to get NBA hype is when he dedicated himself to learning how to play PG becasue that would likely be his position in the pros.

Fast forward to the NBA, it was Mark Jackson who further developed his PG skills and finished rounding out his game. But Kerr comes in and switches Steph back to more of an off guard. Green has averaged more assists than Steph the past few seasons. Green is essentially the point forward which allows Steph to function as his natural SG position, move without the ball and find open looks versus being the primary ball handler and get double teamed.

What I’m getting at is that Steph really is a different case than Trae. Steph is so great off the ball becasue it’s his default position, he is a shooter first that learned how to be a PG. Shooting is his deadliest skill.

Trae can shoot yeah, but his deadliest skill is his play making. Schlenk wants Trae to learn off ball to help round out his game, but he is a PG by nature who happens to be able to score. Unless we have another player that can lead the offense on the floor with Trae it makes less since to take the ball out of his hands than it did with Steph who had a teammate that excelled in running the offense.

I think we will eventually get to the point that we start running him off screens hoping his gravity pulls 2 defenders his way, but for now he is the best playmaker on the team who will have to help give guys like Collins easier looks

[KB21]

45 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Yes.  Everyone should, but many don't, believe this.  Less than 30% sounds right.  With all the first round picks every year, and more especially the lottery, why doesn't these teams jump to the front?  Duh! 

There is an old, wise, saying:  "Make your plan.  Work your plan."

In today's modern thinking, everyone expects "Instant" everything from instant grits to instant success in whatever they do.  We all want to eliminate the work.

Hawks, at least, seem to have a plan.  Now, they must work the plan.  We all hope that, in time, this plan will bear fruit.  Time may be our friend or our enemy because, as we do our work, in time, we will discover how everything works out.

GO ATL HAWKS !

PS:  Dream win again!

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/to-beat-the-warriors-you-gotta-draft-like-the-warriors-good-luck-with-that/

Here is the article.  

Quote

But let’s say our theoretical team gets its hands on a collection of valuable draft picks. What are the odds that it will take the right player at each slot? According to my research, there’s about a 70 percent chance that a team won’t take the best player available with any given pick at or near the top of the draft. Of course, the haul is still usually decent even if a team doesn’t nail its pick perfectly — but at the same time, “decent” doesn’t really help build a Warriors-killer.

Despite those odds, plenty of teams manage to look smart in the draft every year. The Warriors themselves had a terrific series of drafts between 2009 and 2012, when they picked up Green, Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson in rapid succession. That group generated about 25 more points of VORP than they should have based on where they were picked, giving Golden State one of the shrewdest four-year stretches of drafts in the lottery era:

And before anyone actually thinks that because Travis comes from Golden State that the ability to draft that well will come with him:

Quote

But just as studies have found in other sports (most notably the NFL), there isn’t much consistent skill to making better-than-average picks in the NBA draft. The correlation between a team’s per-pick return on investment² in one three-year period and the next is only 0.014 — a practically nonexistent relationship.³ Even the Warriors picked big-man bust Ekpe Udoh sixth overall in between the first rounds in which they snapped up Curry and Thompson.

There is no secret sauce.

[AHF]

4 hours ago, EazyRoc said:

They’ve came around because they are Hawks fans and want to see him do well. However, most people weren’t happy with the pick and didn’t want Trae leading up to the draft.

Lots of people quickly flipped after the draft.  No one pick had the majority support.  Support quickly ramped up for the pick after the draft was over.

[Sothron]

11 hours ago, Watchman said:

It is strange that there is discussion of whether he will be a "star" or "average" (no mention of "superstar." ) we tanked then traded down to get an "average" player?  Usually, people are saying not to put too much optimism on a player based on a good summer league performance, not being disappointed by a poor summer league performance.  This is the fruit of our big tank?? At least Schröder was fast. I was disappointed by Trae's mediocre speed. Someone please tell me we didn't lose all those games for an "average" player. Please. 

 

We didn't. He isn't average. He'll be out of the NBA at the end of his rookie contract.