Series: How Good Could John Collins Be?

[txsting]

15 minutes ago, AHF said:

I don't think the offense should be run through him.  It will be and should be run through Trae.

That said, I still think there is more action you can run for him outside of him running to the hoop and grabbing offensive rebounds.  I've seen him successfully drive to the basket, shoot a fadeaway, post up, take 3's, etc. and think he can do more of that where it is being optimized with picks, etc. designed to get him open.

You can argue that JC is a reasonable good fit with Trae given that he can produce without needing much of the ball.

He has to continue to get bigger and stronger and improve his defense.  

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, txsting said:

You can argue that JC is a reasonable good fit with Trae given that he can produce without needing much of the ball.

He has to continue to get bigger and stronger and improve his defense.  

I can't see a better fit than Trae and John together.  We see when they are on they are destroying defenses.

[AHF]

16 minutes ago, txsting said:

You can argue that JC is a reasonable good fit with Trae given that he can produce without needing much of the ball.

He has to continue to get bigger and stronger and improve his defense.  

Guys who can be productive without needing the ball in their hands are great fits with Trae.  I love JC and Trae together.  Just saying that Trae comes off the floor and has off games, etc. so having JC with a little more polish/development would be good for this team and I think he is capable of more than rim running and garbage buckets. 

If we match up in the playoffs against a team with a terrible PF, then running to the rim and grabbing offensive rebounds is not a formula to exploiting that matchup.  Since it is so important in the playoffs to be able to exploit weaknesses of opponents, we will need multiple threats beyond Trae if we want to really make noise.  And that is the long-term goal for this team, IMO.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

Guys who can be productive without needing the ball in their hands are great fits with Trae.  I love JC and Trae together.  Just saying that Trae comes off the floor and has off games, etc. so having JC with a little more polish/development would be good for this team and I think he is capable of more than rim running and garbage buckets. 

This^. Expanding his game and LP calling plays fir him should be a thing, especially when Trae rests.

[txsting]

Good points all.  Remember that Al became an All-star only when he started to receive the ball 15-18 feet from the basket and create efficient offense from there, mostly with a face-up game.  He could jab step you and hit the jumper, or if you bit, he could drive the lane for a better shot.  I don't think John is yet comfortable with receiving the ball in that position, but look at his FT% and 3fg% and you realize he has the talent to add a midrange face-up game.  John is probably never going to be big and strong enough to worry about having a back-to-the-basket game except for a quick spin move drive, or a Dirk-ish step back.

[REHawksFan]

This may be unpopular but I've been thinking JC needs to be the 3rd or 4th option on a title caliber team. I could see Trae being the 1st option, Cam developing into the 2nd option and with JC or someone not currently on the roster as the 3rd option. 

I'm just less convinced now that a team with Trae and JC as the 2 best players could win a title. 

[turnermx]

10 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

This may be unpopular but I've been thinking JC needs to be the 3rd or 4th option on a title caliber team. I could see Trae being the 1st option, Cam developing into the 2nd option and with JC or someone not currently on the roster as the 3rd option. 

I'm just less convinced now that a team with Trae and JC as the 2 best players could win a title. 

Could the Hawks be contenders if it were built with Trae, Cam, and JC and top notch defensive role players like the Pistons back in the day? (Still hoping Hunter develops into the defensive player many expected) Cam already is above average defensive player and progressing offensively

[sturt]

Dovetailing the OP's question...

I see it being said by some that pairing JC with a player like Capela isn't optimal.

I'm not advocating for Capela, but I am left to wonder what kind of player it is that would be ideal to have to pair JC with... ?

[Thomas]

See no problem with JC and Capela together as one article mentioned for good minutes. JC was improving from three last year though he started off slow and would think he could be farther along with that if no suspension. Clint can absorb a bunch of the bruises JC is taking now and both have a pick-n-roll finish career especially with Trae at the helm. Am not forgetting about Bruno here either because he can backup at both spots, take and deliver bruises and believe he will improve his game a ton. 

[sturt]

Collins heading into that same territory now that Prince was this time last year.

Could Collins and both 2020 first rounders get you KAT?

 

[NBASupes]

Just now, sturt said:

Collins heading into that same territory now that Prince was this time last year.

Could Collins and both 2020 first rounders get you KAT?

 

KAT untouchable. 

[sturt]

Maybe in January 2020.

Maybe not in June 2020, after the player has completed yet another year of futility in Minny.

[Vol4ever]

I just cant see trading JC.  

[hawkman]

Wanted to bump this thread so Collins can get some shine. He's a young, 20ppg and 10rpg PF that has range all the way to the 3pt line. I still hate that he screwed this season up, but I love how he's developed so far. I'm not sure he's reached his ceiling yet either. 

[Thomas]

21 minutes ago, hawkman said:

Wanted to bump this thread so Collins can get some shine. He's a young, 20ppg and 10rpg PF that has range all the way to the 3pt line. I still hate that he screwed this season up, but I love how he's developed so far. I'm not sure he's reached his ceiling yet either. 

Know that it was put out there that Trae is the only one untradeable but to me its Trae, Cam and JC. Listening to phone calls is routine but they shouldn't be moved. They already have chemistry.

[NBASupes]

On 9/16/2019 at 8:53 PM, NBASupes said:

Modern 

PnR don't work as good in 2020 like it did in 1998. PnP is more lethal unless you are an elite screener.

The more I think about it, John developing his game into a Rasheed Wallace would be best for his career. Sadly John wingspan is 4 inches shorter.

John is special at movement. That's his calling card 

Edited February 8, 2020 by NBASupes

[Sothron]

I love JC. I am a little worried about he and Capela will coexist on offense. 

I wish we would get him JC in the  low post more. It generates more looks and lanes for everyone on the court and as we saw in Wake Forest JC has good to great post moves. In the modern NBA there's maybe four or five guys in the league that could guard him in the low post at his position.

[Spud2nique]

I like Collins a lot. I liken him to a modern day Shawn Kemp. Insane athleticism with the agility to put it on the floor and take it to the hoop or hit the mid range shot.

Is he off the table. No but I’d have to get some major talent back because I think Collins is going to get better. I do also think he fits in really well with Trae.

[Wretch]

He's a fantastic compliment to Trae, but I don't know how far we can go with him as our 2nd option.  Sure he can score, but he's not going to force the defense to react when he touches the ball.  He's far better at capitalizing on opportunity as opposed to creating opportunity - where the upper tier bigs like KG, Embiid, and Duncan.  In that regard, I think the ideal fit/comparison is a better Horace Grant and a rock-solid 3rd option.

As far as the fit with Capella, he will be fine.  They're both p/r options. Capella is going to play closer to the basket while Collins is comfortable all the way out to the 3.  Collins' natural position is the 4 and he doesn't have to bang with those big dudes night in and out.

Defensively, they'll both contest shots and clean up the glass.  They're both young and can grow together.  If we were going to add a 5, I don't see how we could do a whole lot better short of adding an All-Star.

[JayBirdHawk]