Preseason Game #5: Hawks at Bulls 10/17/19

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, LongTimeFan said:

Being at the game last night, here are a few observations my son and I have ...

Len was unconvincing as a starting caliber center.  Hands of stone, no ability to get above the rim (which caused missed rebounds, despite the dozen or so he got which were mainly his own misses it seemed), no feel around the rim causing many missed easy shots, seemingly lost on defense.  Jones and Bruno were really no better.  How Bruno could be so ineffective on defense was confusing.  Lots of quickness and energy, but just scattered around the court without a clue.  He may just be raw and needs a LOT more time than I thought.  Jones was just a hulking presence who did little to impress.

Goodwin has lots of energy and speed as the backup point guard.  Unfortunately, despite getting a bunch of garbage points very late in the game, he was not an offensive presence at all.  Almost no assists because he picks up his dribble almost as soon as he crosses midcourt and hands the ball off to someone by the three point line.  He eventually started to penetrate into the lane more and looked good doing it.  Needed to establish that earlier so he may be a keeper.  He was, honestly, one of the better performers of the night.  

Bembry reminded me of prime Bazemore last night.  Tons of energy, excellent defensive efforts, talking on defense to his teammates constantly (as does Vince!), but the mania of activity didn't translate well into actual help in some ways, especially offensively.  

Trae was a joy to watch.  Gets everyone involved, talks professionally to the refs when appropriate, motivates his teammates on the floor to be ever alert for a pass (or a rebound!), and was effective defensively in many ways.  He is gonna' get the crap beat out of him this year, however, as there were two defenders on him the whole night before he even got to the half-court line each possession.  Poor guy is in for some beatings.  

Hunter is smooth, strong as hell, much better offensively than I had projected, and very aware of all around him defensively.  A real asset as the team continues the rebuild.  

Siebert looked smooth, shot well, active defensively.  Don't know if there is room for him on the roster, but he should be in the league for sure.  

Jabari was a beast inside.  Pretty much unstoppable.  He will fill it up on the second unit each night.  Nice acquisition.  

Evan Turner was a non-entity.  Did nothing to showcase his point guard abilities. Slow dribble up the court and hand it off to the first guy he sees.  Offensively he was not engaged much.  Seemed to have good veteran awareness on defense.  

That's all I got.  Fun night.  

P.S.  Gray Mule ... was thinking of you all night as we missed one free throw after another.  Especially when, toward the end of the game, a local hot dog place had a promotion that if the next Hawks player missed two free throws in a row, everyone got a free hot dog.  Lo and behold, Len steps to the line and clunks two in a row off the rim.  I was a bit happy.  Sorry fellow oldie!!

I don't say this often but everyone should rep this post. Best post of the thread

[NBASupes]

50 minutes ago, Plainview1981 said:

But is saying that Trae helps make this team a 25-28 win team as opposed to a 20 win team without him really the standard that you want to set?

The combo of Young/Collins is probably not going to win that much. Neither one is a Batman.

 

I've said this once and I'll say it again. We will win titles because of those who are ceiling risers, not because of Trae's floor raising. Our title hopes are based on the development of Cam and DeAndre. Those two will take us all of the ways. I kept telling us last year, Trae might make it easier for us to get a #1 option who isn't a #1 option like PG13 but he will never be a #1 option. He is just a scorer. He isn't really a #1 or #2. 

 

John really is going to have to elevate his game. There is a reason he went 19th and not higher. 

 

No one wants to admit it but John is not that much better than Parker. He is better but not much. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by NBASupes

[kg01]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I've said this once and I'll say it again. We will win titles because of those who are ceiling risers, not because of Trae's floor raising. Our title hopes are based on the development of Cam and DeAndre. Those two will take us all of the ways. I kept telling us last year, Trae might make it easier for us to get a #1 option who isn't a #1 option like PG13 but he will never be a #1 option. He is just a scorer. He isn't really a #1 or #2. 

 

John really is going to have to elevate his game. There is a reason he went 19th and not higher. 

 

No one wants to admit it but John is not that much better than Parker. He is better but not much. 

I'm an unabashed Parker hater but he shows flashes of why he was considered a top prospect.  I may have to eat crow on him. 

Collins, at this point last year, showed hints by now that he was in for a good year.

At this point, this year, he may be showing that he's gonna stagnate.  I hope I'm wrong.

[Lurker]

12 hours ago, Blunt91 said:

I watched the Hawks "preview" on NBA TV earlier today.  Brendan Haywood & Earl Watson actually think the Hawks are a decent team.  Watson thinks the Hawks need a Backup Point guard.  Says Turner is more of a Walk the ball up the court PG.  Watson says the Hawks are a 2nd half season team That is when you will see the "Real" team come fruition. When it came time to guess whether the Hawks would win more than 34.5 games, Watson said he thinks they win around that number maybe a little bit more.  Haywood was more optimistic , he did not give a number but stated they win more than 35 games, he gave the impression that they could challenge for the 8th spot in the East.

Honestly that's a very fair assessment. We probably see another slow start due to breaking in rookies. If whether we hit or exceed the O/U will depend on how slow of a start it is and how much the rookies progress.

One thing that's really important to me is Reddish makes progress over the season. He has a relatively clean slate to me because of injury. But you'd like to see the season come out to "average".

[Atlantaholic]

15 hours ago, terrell said:

Bruno still cant believe he's in the NBA. SEttle down young fella.

len weak ass. lol

Reminds me of early season Huerter. Once he starts playing more loose I think we'll start to see some great things from him.

[Atlantaholic]

14 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Boy...This preseason has been rough...3 blowouts out of 5.  My goodness!

To be fair the Bulls game was their first and second string vs our third string / g-leaguers out there for most of the night.  We looked pretty decent when our starters were in the game despite missing both Cam and Huerter.  If we want to have a prayer at a playoff spot we are going to need to acquire a backup PG and a decent C though.

[bleachkit]

50 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

To be fair the Bulls game was their first and second string vs our third string / g-leaguers out there for most of the night.  We looked pretty decent when our starters were in the game despite missing both Cam and Huerter.  If we want to have a prayer at a playoff spot we are going to need to acquire a backup PG and a decent C though.

Back up PG and decent C were all available for cheap in free agency. I don't understand why they are pinching pennies on needed help in free agency but will take on these garbage contacts in draft trades without a second thought. I give them credit for signing Parker at least.

[Peoriabird]

32 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Back up PG and decent C were all available for cheap in free agency. I don't understand why they are pinching pennies on needed help in free agency but will take on these garbage contacts in draft trades without a second thought. I give them credit for signing Parker at least.

This is not a difficult concept to understand except for Hawk fans trying give a pass to our GM who happened to draft their favorite player.  He screwed up this past off season and consequences might have a long term effect.

[Gray Mule]

Hawks are not going to be as horrible as they looked in their pre season games.  But, on the other hand, they are not ready for greatness - - Not yet.

Center is our weakest link in our chain.  Len isn't as bad as he has been and our rookie is still floating around in the clouds because he is in the NBA.  Spellman's replacement hasn't really settled in to playing Hawk ball.  Give him time. 

Point guard is the other problem.  Trae is destined to play a major roll and be hounded all game and played as rough as possible.  Not saying teams will set out to injure him.  Just try to make life as hard as possible.  G League PG will be one to keep our eye on this season.  He may be up any time.

Hunter and Reddish are going to fit right in.  Hoping Huerter gets well and be ready for play soon.  Flu bug, go away.  Parker, you are young and we're ready to heap a load of praise on you.  Get ready for it!

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Gray Mule said:

 

Center is our weakest link in our chain.  Len isn't as bad as he has been and our rookie as still floating around in the clouds because he is in the NBA.  Spellman's replacement hasn't really settled in to playing Hawk ball.  Give him time. 

I love your optimism Gray but Jones is simply not an competent NBA player.  This has nothing to do with being on the Hawks.  He simply isn't skilled enough to play at this level.  Poythress was better and in my opinion D. Davis was better.  The guy just can't rebound or play sound defense.  Bruno just doesn't have any court awareness at all.  His instincts on both ends are non existent. You continue to think that these are skill that can be acquired and I don't.  Bruno may get a little better than he is now but I don't see as starter material.  Jones will be out of the league in 2-3 years.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

Back up PG and decent C were all available for cheap in free agency. I don't understand why they are pinching pennies on needed help in free agency but will take on these garbage contacts in draft trades without a second thought. I give them credit for signing Parker at least.

 

42 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

This is not a difficult concept to understand except for Hawk fans trying give a pass to our GM who happened to draft their favorite player.  He screwed up this past off season and consequences might have a long term effect.

Feel like you guys both missed the boat on this.  They are taking on bad contracts to buy additional first round picks.  We have to meet minimum salary levels and will spend most of that regardless so taking on a bad contract to pick up a first round pick makes perfect sense.  TS has focused his rebuild to this point on the draft.  

The issue of whether we should have spent a little more on some more useful FAs is a fair point but the idea behind taking on garbage contracts for picks is common across draft-focused (at least in first stages) rebuilds in multiple sports.

[Atlantaholic]

45 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

This is not a difficult concept to understand except for Hawk fans trying give a pass to our GM who happened to draft their favorite player.  He screwed up this past off season and consequences might have a long term effect.

Long term? Who did we pass up that would make a difference long term?? 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Atlantaholic said:

Long term? Who did we pass up that would make a difference long term?? 

 

3 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Or Robin Lopez for 1 year $4.7mil or Cauley Stein 2 mil or Christian Wood for 1.6 mil...The list goes on and on!

 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Long term? Who did we pass up that would make a difference long term?? 

Long term player development and habits...You play differently on the court with a weak link.

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

 

Feel like you guys both missed the boat on this.  They are taking on bad contracts to buy additional first round picks.  We have to meet minimum salary levels and will spend most of that regardless so taking on a bad contract to pick up a first round pick makes perfect sense.  TS has focused his rebuild to this point on the draft.  

 

What are we looking for now in the draft?  Why continue to lose for draft picks?  Is he not satisfied with Trae/Huerter/Cam/Hunter and John?  IF he is, who or what position is he trying to fill thru the draft???

[Plainview1981]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I've said this once and I'll say it again. We will win titles because of those who are ceiling risers, not because of Trae's floor raising. Our title hopes are based on the development of Cam and DeAndre. Those two will take us all of the ways. I kept telling us last year, Trae might make it easier for us to get a #1 option who isn't a #1 option like PG13 but he will never be a #1 option. He is just a scorer. He isn't really a #1 or #2. 

 

John really is going to have to elevate his game. There is a reason he went 19th and not higher. 

 

No one wants to admit it but John is not that much better than Parker. He is better but not much. 

Trae will have to get his ego in check and stop taking shots that he can’t make in order for that to happen.

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

Reminds me of early season Huerter. Once he starts playing more loose I think we'll start to see some great things from him.

People have to remember, Maryland plays nothing like US. 

They are slow, a low post based team, and they maximize the shot clock. 

Bruno role isn't either. At Maryland he is a post up, playmaker who occasionally sets screens on the perimeter and while he can defend in space, for the most part, they let him live in the paint. 

 

It took Kevin 2 months to adjust to the NBA. I would say it will take twice as long for Bruno as his role is completely different. I like Bruno but he needs time to develop. A lot of time

1 minute ago, Plainview1981 said:

Trae will have to get his ego in check and stop taking shots that he can’t make in order for that to happen.

Lol, that will never happen. Trae just like taking shots. It's a part of his personality. You live with the good and the bad. 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Long term player development and habits...You play differently on the court with a weak link.

This is the best point for criticism of our offseason, IMO.  JC in particular will be impacted by a legit or useless partner in the frontcourt.

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

What are we looking for now in the draft?  Why continue to lose for draft picks?  Is he not satisfied with Trae/Huerter/Cam/Hunter and John?  IF he is, who or what position is he trying to fill thru the draft???

Good teams always keep adding draft assets during their rebuild (think Houston Astros) and even after they are built (think Patriots).  The draft represents a great outlet to add talent to teams at every level.  Think of the impact of Kawhi on the Spurs, Tayshaun Prince on the Pistons, etc.  

They are also keys if you want to add players by trade because often a team unloading a stud wants to get draft picks in return.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

Good teams always keep adding draft assets during their rebuild (think Houston Astros) and even after they are built (think Patriots).  The draft represents a great outlet to add talent to teams at every level.  Think of the impact of Kawhi on the Spurs, Tayshaun Prince on the Pistons, etc.  

 

Again...This build appears to be haphazard.  Most winning teams build around a core rather than continuing to search for one.

[Peoriabird]

8 minutes ago, Plainview1981 said:

Trae will have to get his ego in check and stop taking shots that he can’t make in order for that to happen.

Again...This is one of the bad habits that I am referring too.  You play more hero ball around weaker players.  He developed that bad habit at Oklahoma.  It has continue here because of our personnel.