More than anyone on this squad, Cam Reddish is really starting to piss me off

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I will agree with “do what you do otherwise you are a detriment to the team” WITHIN THE FRAME OF THE GAME. I guess I’m sayin I want Cam to shoot too if it’s in rhythm and flow, if he passes up on those then he’s hurting both himself and us, otherwise you know my philosophy..

 

SWANNNNNNG THAT BALL AROUND BABY !  

The ball will find the right shot if you share it.  

We take a lot of bad shots as an unit. The entire team. Cam is one of the players who takes a lot of great threes and a lot of awful 2s. I rather drop the awful 2s for questionable 3s.

Edited November 8, 2019 by NBASupes

[thecampster]

20 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I can live with starting the season 0-14 on threes

I can live with getting stripped in traffic consistently. 

I can live with bad spin moves. 

I can live poor percentages within the paint considering I didn't expect much at least early on in terms of slashing. 

BUT WHAT I CANNOT ACCEPT is 5.1 3pt per game per36. 

I understand the line is further. I understand NBA defenders defend threes better than college. I can understand a dip in 3pt% but what I cannot accept is you playing unlike you. 

Cam, you are not a slasher. Of your 12 shots a game at Duke, 77% were jumpers and 7.4 were threes. I can live with that. 

I can't live with ONLY 45% of your shots being threes. Threes need to make up at least 70% of your shots and you need to shoot at least 10-12 shots a game playing 27 mpg. Teams will just sit on Trae's shot and force him to not take many shots. If you leave the game taking only 8 shots, most of which are blocked, you aren't really helping us and doing what got you drafted. I been looking at all Cam's metrics. He always been a low FG% high volume 3pt shooter. That's fine. That's okay, When you got playmaking skills, elite defense and are willing to get defensive rebounds, I can live with it. Offensive rebounds don't matter much anyway as we need to continue to have a great transition defense. 

Cam! If you shoot threes with volume, you only help Trae, Hunter, and others, not hurt them. When you attack the paint, it doesn't have the effect. Chuck that bitch Cam! Just have shot selection that don't stink. No fadeaway threes in transition or passing on open driving lanes to take a three on a 3-1 fastbreak. You are 6'9 with a 7'1 wingspan. Shoot damnit! 

 

I have nothing but praise in general to his defense. Better than I expected, much better than most of the scouts projected but I said he is like Lonzo Ball as a rookie, just quicker, longer, more agile, better lateral quickness and better size on defense. 

 

 

Considering your original fan boy over the top on him, let me be the one to pump you back up.

1) Being drafted with Hunter is the very best thing to have happened to Cam.  Hunter is exactly the type of under control, hands inside, steady with the ball in his hands type of player that Cam should learn from/emulate. If Cam can learn the nuances of keeping your feet, getting a defender on your hip, squaring in your mind before squaring in your body, He'll be elite. He is a better athlete than Hunter and that is his biggest drawback. He is going to have to learn those skills to take the next step and Hunter is the best person to show him. Learn from him daily.

2) He doesn't have to be superman (yet). He can grow into this role. Unlike most top 10 picks, he isn't expected to be the savior of the franchise. It isn't boom or bust with him. He can just "learn, grow, mature". I envy him. I wish I could do that daily in my job.

3) Vince is on the team. I would venture to say there is no better vet to have coach him up than Vince. Despite great hops, Rookie Vince did those little things that earned him RotY attention. That getting a defender on your hip with pace, hesitation, turning your body before going thing is key. If Cam dedicates himself to just that this year, the sky is the limit for him offensively. 

4) He is a really, really, super nice guy. People root for the good guys. He'll have a way longer leash and less negative attention to any struggles he faces along the way. The expectation for the Hawks this year is still to miss the playoffs. Cam isn't on any national media's radar. That is a bigger blessing than anything a rookie can hope for. 

5) he is in the right city...omg is he in the right city to learn in right now. No big lights, forgiving fan base, great owner, coach, facility, city. 

 

Your expectations for him out of the box were way too high. Your current criticism is far too harsh. As rookie's go, he is par for the course. The effort is there and that's the most important thing.

[NBASupes]

I just read your post @thecampster, you said a lot of reasonable things and I am not going to harp on the negatives.

 

I'll say this, my expectations of Cam are fair. I wanted what he did at Duke on offense and at least Lonzo Ball level on defense. Right now, his offense is much worse than at Duke or HS. His defense is better than even I expected. 

I don't think it's too much to ask for that Cam is shooting threes at his normal rates. I think it's fair.

I also want to recognize that you didn't like Cam as a prospect. You didn't think much of his defense. Really disliked his offense and hated his mindset and effort in general. 

From what your expectations were, Cam has overachieved. You have a completely different viewpoint than me on this topic and likely will always have a different view point. 

I liked his Duke tape, you hated it. 

I respect your posts, not a lot of I was right about this or that or just trash talk in general. You were respectful and kind and left what you felt was a great post which from some members of this site, will be seen as such.

For me, I just don't agree with the main premise. I think needs to play his game. I don't think of him the way you do. I just the don't see the game like you do and that's fine. We are different and I really like you as a poster. 

[macdaddy]

Other than missing a bunch of shots i've mostly loved what we've seen so far.  You can see the ability to make plays and knock down shots is there.   Even his passing ability has looked pretty good.  Sure I wish he had shot better but I'm not worried at all...yet.  Now if he is still shooting 10% in January that's different.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Everything LP said is 100% correct. Drive if someone is over perusing like Herro who got dunked on but let it loose otherwise. We let Parker shoot 5.7 threes per36 a game and let Carter shooting 17% shoot 8.5 per36. Just let it fly. You are no use to us trying to be young VC

 

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

@HawkItus, thanks for the standup post. Do you realize for the average NBA player that 3s can be worth 3 times what twos are worth? 3x. 

For Cam Reddish who is shooting in the twenties for both, his 3s are worth 8x times the value and his value per possession, in the range of 3 is worth 12x the value. It makes absolutely no sense to have him really doing anything but jacking threes.

First, threes are not worth 3x what a two is worth.  They are worth 3x a free throw but 1.5x a two.  50% more.  I have no fracking idea where you are coming up with 8x or 12x the value.  If a player is shooting 20% from 2pt range and 3pt range, the expected points per shot (ignoring whether one shot is more likely to draw a foul than another and similar ancillary issues) is 0.4 points per 2pt shot and 0.6 points per 3pt shot.  If you start adding in foul rates, passing opportunities, turnovers rates, odds of offensive rebounds being generated, spacing impact, etc. all those things can adjust the value from one type of shot versus another but the basic math says the difference between expected points from a 3 and a 2 taken at the same % is a 50% difference or 1.5x.  Of course, the average NBA player shoots better on 2pt attempts than on 3pt attempts so the basic math shifts depending on a player's actual shooting %s as well.  

For Cam, he is shooting 20% on 3's and 28.1% on 2's.  That means an expected .6 points for a 3pt attempt and .562 points for a 2pt attempt assuming he stays at those %s (which I hope to god he doesn't).

Second, I don't disagree with what LP said either.  I think you and I read it a little differently, though.  I don't see anything about Cam needing to take a certain % of his shots from 3pt range or it being essential for him to take a high volume 3's, etc.  I do see him saying (a) take open shots without hesitation and drive aggressively and (b) stop trying to beat guys on moves.  But I think that advice applies to basically everyone on the team.  Trying beat opponents on moves (whether in 2pt range or 3pt range) generally results in worse shots than good ball movement and taking what the defense gives you.  Taking open looks, driving downhill when you have a lane, etc. is the right way to play.  He wants Cam and every other guy on the roster to play the right way.  

Cam does need to try to simplify things and to take good shots as they come to him.  That might mean taking 0 threes in a game if all he can get are contested looks but might mean shooting 20 of them if they are just going to leave him open.  Take what the defense gives you - make smart, aggressive decisions.  I'm good with all that.

[Spud2nique]

I will not be able to post tomorrow @AHF I apologize. I will be a DNP (did not post).

 

Spud out: load management

(I have to manage my umm ..load)

Smartalecs please post comments below:

 

[NBASupes]

Great post @AHF

[EazyRoc]

The truth is Cam Reddish always has TOOLS, but eye test has always shown he needed time to put it all together. He wasn’t out of the box NBA ready like Hunter is.

He was thrown out of his natural role at Duke and couple that with nagging injuries and you have to admit his development has been delayed.

We all have to be patient and adjust our expectations.

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I just read your post @thecampster, you said a lot of reasonable things and I am not going to harp on the negatives.

 

I'll say this, my expectations of Cam are fair. I wanted what he did at Duke on offense and at least Lonzo Ball level on defense. Right now, his offense is much worse than at Duke or HS. His defense is better than even I expected. 

I don't think it's too much to ask for that Cam is shooting threes at his normal rates. I think it's fair.

I also want to recognize that you didn't like Cam as a prospect. You didn't think much of his defense. Really disliked his offense and hated his mindset and effort in general. 

From what your expectations were, Cam has overachieved. You have a completely different viewpoint than me on this topic and likely will always have a different view point. 

I liked his Duke tape, you hated it. 

I respect your posts, not a lot of I was right about this or that or just trash talk in general. You were respectful and kind and left what you felt was a great post which from some members of this site, will be seen as such.

For me, I just don't agree with the main premise. I think needs to play his game. I don't think of him the way you do. I just the don't see the game like you do and that's fine. We are different and I really like you as a poster. 

I did? I think you have me confused with some other attractive suave grandfather?

 

[thecampster]

My direct quote, "Which is my point. He was super hyped by everyone and then fizzled to average NBA starter. On fire is an excited stance to take. I like the kid, but he's not Jesus. Most players dont hit their stride till their mid 20s. Give him room to breathe. You wont know what he is for a few years." Taken from here:

 

My other general comments about this draft, "The reality is there are going to be a lot of disappointing players in this draft.  A lot of teams are going to look back at this draft and wonder wtf were they doing.  The Hawks avoided every one of those players.  Its a huge win based on that only."

 

Taken from here: 

If you'd like my current spot on takes, "I charge $20 to connect and $5.95 for every 10 minutes after.

 

[NBASupes]

26 minutes ago, thecampster said:

My direct quote, "Which is my point. He was super hyped by everyone and then fizzled to average NBA starter. On fire is an excited stance to take. I like the kid, but he's not Jesus. Most players dont hit their stride till their mid 20s. Give him room to breathe. You wont know what he is for a few years." Taken from here:

 

My other general comments about this draft, "The reality is there are going to be a lot of disappointing players in this draft.  A lot of teams are going to look back at this draft and wonder wtf were they doing.  The Hawks avoided every one of those players.  Its a huge win based on that only."

 

Taken from here: 

If you'd like my current spot on takes, "I charge $20 to connect and $5.95 for every 10 minutes after.

 

Thanks for clarify that. I guess my POV of you in the thread was that he wasn't any good outside of tools apart. I was wrong. 

[bleachkit]

On 11/7/2019 at 5:09 PM, IheartVolt said:

The last thing we need right now is Cam bricking ten 3's every game. The kid has plenty of time to adjust his game. What I am concerned about is Huerter and his poor shooting and lack of play time. Maybe it's the injury thing but this surprises me more then anything and hope to see it fixed very damn soon

Kev was solid tonight. Might be coming out of his slump.

[NBASupes]

21 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Kev was solid tonight. Might be coming out of his slump.

I hope so. Cam was okay offensively tonight and good defensively. There is no way Cam, Len or Hunter can get up volume. We really don't move the ball. 

[Cwell]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I hope so. Cam was okay offensively tonight and good defensively. There is no way Cam, Len or Hunter can get up volume. We really don't move the ball. 

That’s true but they have to want the ball. Most of the time we have a guy near the the top of the key looking for someone to pass to and everyone is just just standing in a spot. Cam rarely moves out of the corner to receive a pass. He never cuts/ does anything off ball to become a target for a pass, and majority of the time when he does get it ,he hot potato’s it back to who originally passed it to him. It’s not just Cam, Hunter does it as well but not as much. The players that have the ball the most are the players that aren’t afraid to go get it 

This is an offensive structure issue and also a matter of players not being aggressive on offense. That’s why teams can come down and pull 3s like it’s nothing, we don’t make them exert any energy on the other end. 

Edited November 9, 2019 by Cwell

[NBASupes]

On 11/9/2019 at 2:42 AM, Cwell said:

That’s true but they have to want the ball. Most of the time we have a guy near the the top of the key looking for someone to pass to and everyone is just just standing in a spot. Cam rarely moves out of the corner to receive a pass. He never cuts/ does anything off ball to become a target for a pass, and majority of the time when he does get it ,he hot potato’s it back to who originally passed it to him. It’s not just Cam, Hunter does it as well but not as much. The players that have the ball the most are the players that aren’t afraid to go get it 

This is an offensive structure issue and also a matter of players not being aggressive on offense. That’s why teams can come down and pull 3s like it’s nothing, we don’t make them exert any energy on the other end. 

Cam moved pretty well without the ball with Collins. So far with Parker, he has been stationary. 

 

I'll give Cam 10 games but if he doesn't starting letting it fly in the league, College Park will be his temporary home. 

[Spud2nique]

Cam is playing like he’s too cool for school. We know you’re smooth and that’s ur game but make it work for you a bit.

[macdaddy]

Definitely seems like Cam is having a crisis of confidence.  Maybe LP gave him too much too soon I don't know.  

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Definitely seems like Cam is having a crisis of confidence.  Maybe LP gave him too much too soon I don't know.  

Naw, LP gave him minutes and he produced. Too much too soon is Trae last year in November. 

[kg01]

Seems to me that he and Hunter both need to get skronger.  Keep gettin ripped on drives.  Maybe they should get with Collins to see what he .... ok.  Ok.  Too soon, I know.  Self-bann.

[Spud2nique]

10 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Keep gettin ripped on drives. 

Yup said this last week. Comon baby get it together.