Hawks v. Grizzlies

[Atlantaholic]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Gallinari and Reddish -14. Damn!

They're r victims of the Pierce lineups. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Atlantaholic

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, Cwell said:

Dre and Cam both scoring effortlessly tonight without a lot of touches

Cam was 3rd in the NBA point per touches after ASB

[terrell]

Just now, Bonkers said:

No lol

 

I have never said anything negative about Bogdan

Gotcha..

[Bonkers]

+/- is one of the most meaningless stats in Basketball right now as this article shows(from 2011)

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/815181-nba-power-rankings-the-10-most-meaningless-stats-and-arguments-in-basketball%23slide5

 

On/Off, Plus/Minus stats are an "advanced stat" but they are something that some bloggers and writers get a hold of, play with and try to draw conclusions that shouldn't be drawn.

They attempt to measure a player's contribution to the team by determining how a team does while the player is on the court versus how a team does while the player is off the court.

A player's team scores 100 points per 100 possessions while he's "on" the court and they score 90 points while he's on the bench. However, at the same time, the other team scores 110 points while he's on the court and 90 points while he's on the bench.

Therefore, his team is a net "minus-10" while he's on the court and a net zero while he's on the bench; his on/off plus/minus is minus-10, meaning his team is a net 10 points worse while he's on the court. The notion is that by factoring this in you can account for the "team effect." 

According to this measure, Paul Pierce would have been the best player in the NBA last year. Pierce is good, but best in the NBA? Still not convinced. How about Nick Collison as the eighth-best player in the NBA? Steve Nash is a better overall player than LeBron James or Dwight Howard. Finally, the best player on the Chicago Bulls is Omer Asik.  

The other problem is that it also doesn't even measure just that; it measures how a player's backup, with other backups, plays against the opposing backups. In other words, it actually doesn't tell you what it's trying to. 

The tremendous number of variables that are there and the limited number of minutes the starters spend on the bench all make this a very hard thing to use to determine who the "best players" are. 

To be fair, they weren't really intended to be a measure of "best players" and the stat's originators, Aaron Barzilai and Steve Ilardi, explicitly say that explaining:

It is important to note that the adjusted +/- rating is not a “holy grail” statistic that perfectly captures each player’s overall value...the estimates suffer from the issue of skewed sampling—the fact that most players usually find themselves on the court in the company of certain teammates and not others. As a result, it can be difficult to accurately tease out the individual effects of two players who almost always appear on the court together.

Rosenbaum and others have outlined different ways of addressing these issues, most notably using multiple years’ worth of data and augmenting regression results with additional analyses based on box score statistics.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Bonkers

[Buzzard]

Hawks vs Memphis looks like a old ABA Game. Only thing missing is the red, white, and blue ball. Capela, Hunter, Young with 13 each in the first half. Reddish in his first game with 9 in the first half.

[hawkman]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Bruno needs to watch Capela, and see how aggressive he is around the rim when he gets the ball.  If he gets it, it's not going to be kicked back out.  He's looking to score.

This is what Bruno needs to do.  Everyone else is going out on the floor, looking to score when they touch the ball. He needs to do the same.  He's going to get pulled anyway.  Might as well get pulled trying to create offense for himself.

He has a small window of opportunity. He needs to show something before Okongwu is available. 

[REHawksFan]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Gallinari and Reddish -14. Damn!

Cam has 9 pts on 2 shots and is -14. He has 1 TO, 1 ast, 2 stl, and 2 reb and he's-14. Just shows that metric is a bit flawed.

Other interesting stat.....Rondo with 5 ast in 5 min played. 

 

[Cwell]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I'll start, his name is stupid....okay now you go!

If you take away the ovic, his first name is his last name

[JayBirdHawk]

Only 5 TOs.

[Atlantaholic]

3 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

They're r victims of the Pierce lineups. 

Reddish has been super impressive. Galo is ice cold though. 

[Atlantaholic]

2 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Cam has 9 pts on 2 shots and is -14. He has 1 TO, 1 ast, 2 stl, and 2 reb and he's-14. Just shows that metric is a bit flawed.

Other interesting stat.....Rondo with 5 ast in 5 min played. 

 

The metric is totally pointless in small samples. Even with large samples you need to view it within context. 

[Final_quest]

Gray Mule, Hawks are 15/15 FTs at the half.

[benhillboy]

I personally love +/- stats, of course the larger the sample the better.  They usually back up all my agendas and biases lol.  If I watch a whole game I can guess the +/- of the 10 highest minutes players with pretty good accuracy if I can brag a bit.

Edited December 18, 2020 by benhillboy

[marco102]

Good fun game. Ja Morant and Dillion brooks have impressed.  Our sophmore wings are going to be a problem.  Trae's floater seems off so far this preseason.  Same thing happened last year. Bogi seems out of sorts too. None of this is a problem.  

This Memphis team is impressive and the Hawks are hanging with them. I need a bit more defense and rebounding.

[mrhonline]

10 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I'll start, his name is stupid....okay now you go!

You're one to talk, Campster Thecampster.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Capela buried deep in the paint, while Jonas just takes a wide open 3.

That can't happen . . at all.

[Bonkers]

We need to have sum off the ball movement with Bog

[thecampster]

10 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Hawks vs Memphis looks like a old ABA Game. Only thing missing is the red, white, and blue ball. Capela, Hunter, Young with 13 each in the first half. Reddish in his first game with 9 in the first half.

I had one of those balls growing up...I love dit.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

You see LP?

If  team tries to go small, or switch their wing on a big . . and you have a guy like Collins down on the block . . throw him the ball.  If he doesn't score, maybe he draws a foul.

Brooks with foul #4.  Let's get that 5th foul.

 

And another wide open 3.

 

Bogi and Capela killing us on defense.

[aali34]

Our energy has been inconsistent. We played with more heart on Sunday.