Uh oh...Ice vs The Baptist

[terrell]

20 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Melo Ball is flawed as hell and I honestly think him and Trae will be on the same level when it's all said and done and that's not great if our goal is to win a title. 

At least he has size going for him..

[aali34]

5 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I knew something was off with his passing this year.  He seemed to be forcing things and his passing looked uncharacteristically sloppy.  I think it's counterproductive to try and change his style and force him away from this strength.  Not the circus shots or the "bait" flops.  Ya'll can argue about that all day.  We all of a sudden don't like dribble penetration/drive and kick?  JC getting fed off of the pick and roll (and looking like a world beater in the process...)  Guys getting open looks left and right?

Huh?

Trae is a natural facilitator, he draws attention, he gets people involved, and he gets the ball to them.  The problem isn't Trae.  The problem is that he doesn't have a dominant compliment that can reliably deliver.  I cannot believe how much hate Trae is getting in here.  I don't agree with any of these takes.  Not a single one of these negative takes.

Man, I can't wait to necro this thread LOL.

 

GSW ran a one man offense with Mark Jackson. It didn't work.

Quote

The Warriors had success under previous coach Mark Jackson, especially on defense, but Myers & Crew didn’t like Jackson’s old-school isolation offense. Too much of one or two guys working a play while three guys took a figurative smoke break.

Kerr’s offense required an initial buy-in by the team, and the talent and maturity to run a free-form offense.

If Trae is a predictable player that just spams pnr than this team isn't winning anything. You need a balance.

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

At least he has size going for him..

He really does. He is taller and stronger than Lonzo.

[JayBirdHawk]

There's some really bad "hot takes' stuff in this thread. 

Too much reactionary posting.

[Carmine]

This what I thought. Trae needs to grow up.

[Peoriabird]

36 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think you are suffering from memory loss.  Do you recall the team we had that KB wanted to continue with? Here they are with their ages, contract status and 2017-18 salaries.

24 YO Dennis Schröder ($15.5M)

25 YO Tim Hardaway Jr UFA (signed for $16.5M)

28 YO Kent Bazemore Contract ($16.9M)

31 YO Paul Millsap UFA (signed for $31.3M)

32 YO Dwight Howard Under Contract ($23.5M)

Salary Cap:  $99M - Starters $103.7M

 

That was a garbage overpriced roster at the end of the 2016-17 season.  Lucky to make the playoffs that last year and capped out for the future.

 

Yes, I said they needed to rebuild.  That is obvious.

I wasn't referring to the rebuild but rather the devopment of bad habits. I've mentioned this a million times over the years

[terrell]

35 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I am and was team rebuild. That said, I understood the risks of rebuilding and this is what it is. You get players like Trae Young who were so exciting in year 1 but when you (defense) take away things they love like the PnR, they build bad habits and it's hard to watch as a fan. Last year, Trae's play was not fun to watch. This year, it's only gotten worse since the refs shallowed the whistle. Trae is starting to become hard on the eyes. I don't want to blame the coach for it because coaches aren't stepping inbounds for passes, getting 8 seconds calls late into the 4th QT and making stupid passes time and time again. 

Schlenk fkd up. Especially if Cam doesnt work out.. Just Admit it..lol. Im feeling like I felt on draft night 2018...smh. Especially after watching Mavs game last night...We need to get healthy and hopefully start winning again, before I turn on LP AND Travis..lol

Edited January 8, 2021 by terrell

[bleachkit]

7 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

There's some really bad "hot takes' stuff in this thread. 

Too much reactionary posting.

A win tomorrow will calm things down. A blow out loss, it will be nuclear.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, terrell said:

Schlenk fkd up. Especially if Cam doesnt wotk out.. Admit it... Im feeling like I felt on draft night 2018...smh. Especially after watching Mavs game last night...We need to get healthy and hopefully start winning again, before I turn on LP AND Travis..lol

I already accepted Luka is much better than Trae. I don't judge Trae by that trade. I do judge Travis and Cam is ultimately the deciding factor and he's not close yet so I am still not ready to judge him. As far Trae, I have very high expectations of him but he's been at a level I am hoping he isn't topping out. 

[terrell]

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

A win tomorrow will calm things down. A blow out loss, it will be nuclear.

Thats for damn sure..

[Wretch]

Just now, bleachkit said:

Trae's game has to evolve. Trae Iverson dribbling the ball for 20 seconds is not going to work. 

I agree 100% that his game needs to evolve.  It has over these first couple of years.  He added the floater, he's drawing fouls, he's passing up bad shots and finding people more often.  You can see him thinking about it and then moving the ball.  The comparison to Iverson/Kyrie is off. 

Kyrie is far closer in play style to Iverson.  Kyrie pounds the ball and will dribble through anything - and he's looking to score first.  Every now and again, you'll see Trae in a switch where he has a slower defender and he's trying to take advantage of it.  That's about the only time I see a similarity between him and Iverson.  With the difference being Iverson was trying to take EVERYONE off the dribble.  I mean...AI's crossover was his signature move and he was *ALWAYS* looking to put the ball in the basket first. 

Iverson was a VOLUME scorer who could find others after drawing attention.  Trae is an efficient scorer that reads the floor like a throwback PG and is constantly trying to find his teammates.  These are two totally different players.

[hawkzlova123]

Imo Collins has a huge burden to prove he's a max player. Since we have so many offensive options, Collins is pressured to perform. And anything that will become a barrier to him and production, he wants to knock it down. 

 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, hawkzlova123 said:

Imo Collins has a huge burden to prove he's a max player. Since we have so many offensive options, Collins is pressured to perform. And anything that will become a barrier to him and production, he wants to knock it down. 

 

facts. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, Wretch said:

I agree 100% that his game needs to evolve.  It has over these first couple of years.  He added the floater, he's drawing fouls, he's passing up bad shots and finding people more often.  You can see him thinking about it and then moving the ball. 

Say it again. Trae has been so good so quickly in his 1st 2 years at the things he does well, it's as if everyone is expecting him to be a finished product. He isn't. Give him a chance to continue to grow. 

Collins made a valid criticism of Trae. Trae had the opportunity as the teams leader to address it during the review session instead of doing what he did during the Charlotte game. It's just not a good look.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Say it again. Trae has been so good so quickly in his 1st 2 years at the things he does well, it's as if everyone is expecting him to be a finished product. He isn't. Give him a chance to continue to grow. 

Collins made a valid criticism of Trae. Trae had the opportunity as the teams leader to address it during the review session instead of doing what he did during the Charlotte game. It's just not a good look.

In reality, the only thing Trae has proven is that is a bad team All Star

[terrell]

Just now, NBASupes said:

I already accepted Luka is much better than Trae. I don't judge Trae by that trade. I do judge Travis and Cam is ultimately the deciding factor and he's not close yet so I am still not ready to judge him. As far Trae, I have very high expectations of him but he's been at a level I am hoping he isn't topping out. 

Yeah Im not judging Trae by the trade. He had nothing to do with it..Schlenk on the other hand................I just dont see how you give up one of the best pg prospects in years.( who was 6'8 and just as good offensively and much more versatile than the 6'0 guy). I know we gained a pick, but still.  And no Im not giving up on Trae yet..................Just sayin.  

[Wretch]

28 minutes ago, aali34 said:

GSW ran a one man offense with Mark Jackson. It didn't work.

If Trae is a predictable player that just spams pnr than this team isn't winning anything. You need a balance.

I agree 1000000000% and I also believe part of that solution is going to be moving him without the ball.  This is my favorite type of off guard by the way - Rip Hamiltion/Reggie Miller.  The problem is, who facilitates the offense while Trae is moving?  We need a secondary ball-handler in there with him for it to work OR.....we need a Motion Offense^TM (little throwback Larry Drew humor there lol).  That's on coaching moreso than Trae and he doesn't strike me as the "selfish" type to push back.  It would only take us (and his game) to another level.  

I would also add that to having good passers and reliable scorers is a prerequisite to having a contender that scores off of ball movement.  Which is why my opinion hasn't changed over the past couple of seasons.  If this is going to work, we have to find a legit #2 (or someone needs to prove that they are that person).

[terrell]

1 hour ago, HawkItus said:

It's hilarious how local and national media saw an MVP type play from Trae, Cam cools off and injuries happen and now our fans and a PF feeling himself think Trae is a team cancer.  This is why Atlanta can't have nice things.

That after 1st few games..We all had him in MVP convo..This is a "what have you done for me lately league"..lol

[hawkzlova123]

I've seen flashes of trae taking over games like a kwahi, but once he gets more consistent he will be regarded as a super star. The hawks need to run through him, no trae no hawks identity. We finally have a superstar in the making and we wanna drive him out. Run through trae everyone else are roles

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I agree 1000000000% and I also believe part of that solution is going to be moving him without the ball.  ).

We spent most of last season and all of the offseason discussing Trae playing off ball and moving without the ball....I'm still waiting to see it. I don't know that we've addressed it fully since to do that you neef someone else on the floor WITH him to do that. It's still only 8 games in though.

 

And if anyone said they thought the offense would look as smooth as it did the 1st 5 games with all the new pieces they'd be lying. I for one thought it would take awhile to gel. Unfortunately, the wheels fell off the last 3 games so here we are.