Uh oh...Ice vs The Baptist

[nathan2331]

5 minutes ago, hawkzlova123 said:

I've seen flashes of trae taking over games like a kwahi, but once he gets more consistent he will be regarded as a super star. The hawks need to run through him, no trae no hawks identity. We finally have a superstar in the making and we wanna drive him out. Run through trae everyone else are roles

No one wants to drive him out. Collins made a valid critique and Young took this somewhere else. Even if you think Collins is wrong, you don't do what Trae did last game and basically abandon your responsibilities on offense. That's immaturity. There are constructive ways to go about this, otherwise you lose the team's cohesion. Hopefully they figure it out.

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I agree 1000000000% and I also believe part of that solution is going to be moving him without the ball.  This is my favorite type of off guard by the way - Rip Hamiltion/Reggie Miller.  The problem is, who facilitates the offense while Trae is moving?  We need a secondary ball-handler in there with him for it to work OR.....we need a Motion Offense^TM (little throwback Larry Drew humor there lol).  That's on coaching moreso than Trae and he doesn't strike me as the "selfish" type to push back.  It would only take us (and his game) to another level.  

I would also add that to having good passers and reliable scorers is a prerequisite to having a contender that scores off of ball movement.  Which is why my opinion hasn't changed over the past couple of seasons.  If this is going to work, we have to find a legit #2 (or someone needs to prove that they are that person).

There is a skill to being an off ball player. Trae showcases none of that. 

Stamina off the ball, nope

Movement BBIQ, nope

the ability to make smart cuts, nope. 

 

Trae just stands around the three point line watching the play unfold. 

[terrell]

20 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Say it again. Trae has been so good so quickly in his 1st 2 years at the things he does well, it's as if everyone is expecting him to be a finished product. He isn't. Give him a chance to continue to grow. 

Collins made a valid criticism of Trae. Trae had the opportunity as the teams leader to address it during the review session instead of doing what he did during the Charlotte game. It's just not a good look.

So basically he threw a game when we're trying to make the Playoffs? And we're supposed to give him a chance to grow? Thats tough..

Edited January 8, 2021 by terrell

[hawkzlova123]

3 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

No one wants to drive him out. Collins made a valid critique and Young took this somewhere else. Even if you think Collins is wrong, you don't do what Trae did last game and basically abandon your responsibilities on offense. That's immaturity. There are constructive ways to go about this, otherwise you lose the team's cohesion. Hopefully they figure it out.

I was referring to some posters and not the team. Hopefully, Collins realizes that the hawks should run through their best player. 

[aali34]

16 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I agree 1000000000%.  I also believe part of that solution is going to be moving him without the ball.  This is my favorite type of off guard by the way - Rip Hamiltion/Reggie Miller.  The problem is, who facilitates the offense while Trae is moving?  We need a secondary ball-handler in there with him for it to work OR.....we need a Motion Offense^TM (little throwback Larry Drew humor there lol).  That's on coaching moreso than Trae and I he doesn't strike me as the "selfish" type to push back.  It would only take us (and his game) to another level.  

I would also add that to having good passers and reliable scorers is a prerequisite to having a contender that scores off of ball movement.  Which is why my opinion hasn't changed over the past couple of seasons.  If this is going to work, we have to find a legit #2 (or someone needs to prove that they are that person).

Kevin is a good passer. Deandre, Bogi, and Gallo are decent and make good reads. Rondo is obviously top tier.

John has a chance to prove his worth in this area. He says he's been working on his playmaking and there have been some returns, nothing major though. He still has room for improvement. Alot.

On the plus side, this season he has a positive assist/turnover ratio, something he's never done. He also had 5 assists against Cleveland, a career high.

However, there are some plays where he looks to muscle it in instead of finding open teamates and that has to improve. Sometimes when he drives it to the rim off of a pumpfake he tries scoring over the help when there are open players on the wing. That irks me a bit, but it's something that can change.

Trae isn't the only guy who needs to adapt.

Edited January 8, 2021 by aali34

[aali34]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

There is a skill to being an off ball player. Trae showcases none of that. 

Stamina off the ball, nope

Movement BBIQ, nope

the ability to make smart cuts, nope. 

 

Trae just stands around the three point line watching the play unfold. 

You need buy in to improve on some of those things. Trae is smart, if he wants to do that, he will.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, terrell said:

So basically he threw a game when we're trying to make the Playoffs? And we're supposed to give him a chance to grow? Thats tough..

Only if you haven't made an error in judgement at age 22 you can say this and believe in absolutes. Never judge a person by their worse mistake or there is no room for forgiveness and reconciliation.

This is a teaching/learning moment for Trae. He'll either be better for it or he won't. 

Collins had his mea culpa getting suspended last season. This is Trae's

[HawkItus]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

There's some really bad "hot takes' stuff in this thread. 

Too much reactionary posting.

Looking like the General Board over here.  I get it, Trae has flaws.  But, these assassinations of his game are borderline insane.

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

There is a skill to being an off ball player. Trae showcases none of that. 

Stamina off the ball, nope

Movement BBIQ, nope

the ability to make smart cuts, nope. 

 

Trae just stands around the three point line watching the play unfold. 

LP said this last season, it's not enough to just run him ragged doing it. There is nuance to it.

[terrell]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Only if you haven't made an error in judgement at age 22 you can say this and believe in absolutes. Never judge a person by their worse mistake or there is no room for forgiveness and reconciliation.

This is a teaching/learning moment for Trae. He'll either be better for it or he won't. 

Collins had his mea culpa getting suspended last season. This is Trae's

Ive made plenty of bad decisions..But I wasnt a supposed leader of a team..Could you imagine any other young pg doing that, not named AI? I cant. Diva as hell right there. But like I said, Im not giving up on him yet....

[hylndr11]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

Trae is not Curry at all. Curry is a master off the ball. Trae is a small Harden. Trae needs the ball, Trae does not play off the ball. Does not try to play off the ball. He's a Harden/Iverson type that needs the ball. 

And we decided to draft him over Luka, these ppl are paid to dig and find this shit out maybe he's just showing it now but this is a clear pattern and looks like we fked ourselves , if we're doing this I'd rather just keep the guys we signed and trade collins and trae and start over, we need a real actual superstar here period 

[ATLHawks3]

This is trending on Twitter right now. I hope the players can have a player only meeting to hash things out. 

[terrell]

5 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

Looking like the General Board over here.  I get it, Trae has flaws.  But, these assassinations of his game are borderline insane.

Well Ive always had my questions about Trae Young..So this shit aint helping..lol

[HawkItus]

Luka??????!!!!

 

[terrell]

1 minute ago, hylndr11 said:

And we decided to draft him over Luka, these ppl are paid to dig and find this shit out maybe he's just showing it now but this is a clear pattern and looks like we fked ourselves , if we're doing this I'd rather just keep the guys we signed and trade collins and trae and start over, we need a real actual superstar here period 

Their contracts are so cheap we wont get value.Unless youre trading for draft picks...We'd have to include some FA's to get a superstar talent...

[marco102]

Conflict in the film room is a good thing.  That means you're debating.  Trae's actions on the floor Wednesday were unacceptable and I'll wait to see him the next few games before passing judgment. 

Everything Collins said was correct.  At 22, I wasn't very good at taking criticism.  As I've gotten older, I realize constructive feedback helps you grow. 

LP said he's encouraging his players to be confrontational, with him, the coaching staff and each other.  They need to hold each other accountable.  

I am pissed at Trae's effort Wednesday, but I don't think it'll be a trend.  I also hope they all continue to give feedback. It's the only way this team will get better. 

 

[aali34]

Luka has issues too if anybody was wondering lol. He isn't much of an offball player either, and his fitness and shooting raises eyebrows. Few players have minimal holes in thier games. It's how the team adjusts to these growing pains and adversity that matters.

Pressure makes diamonds.

[hylndr11]

1 minute ago, HawkItus said:

Luka??????!!!!

 

According to the board he's a terrible overated player , ok, did u watch the last two mav games ? Sure it's early but he's trending up quickly , trae on the other it's year three and we are seeing what we are seeing 

2 minutes ago, terrell said:

Their contracts are so cheap we wont get value.Unless youre trading for draft picks...We'd have to include some FA's to get a superstar talent...

Yea picks , no we won't get anyone through a trade , not likely 

[Jody23]

This thing is getting WAY overblown.  There are several reasons why the Hawks struggled the last few games.  They've got time to turn it around at hopefully getting some guys back will help.  And when/if they do, it will be with Trae Young at the helm.

[BangHolman]

This team has been on fire offensively this season, blowing two 15+ point 4th quarter leads in three past two. That's not on just Trae. John is just frustrated that he isn't getting the ball as much as he used to. He should have signed the reported $90m/4y fair contract he was offered instead of betting on himself. Anyone could see the touches he needs to get the contract he wants weren't going to be there. With the off-season additions, Capela, and the internal growth of the others there's more people to spread the ball around to