Uh oh...Ice vs The Baptist

[JTB]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

And I explained what my thought was on that.

Per Kirschners tweet it does sound like collins wants a bigger offensive role. 

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, JTB said:

Per Kirschners tweet it does sound like collins wants a bigger offensive role. 

I posted Collins' quote from the article on page 1 of this thread.

[JTB]

17 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I posted Collins' quote from the article on page 1 of this thread.

Right I saw that but you and @Buzzard going back and forth seemed odd.

buzzard seems to think it’s selfishness coming from collins while it sounds like you’re trying to downplay that collins is frustrated about his role (if I have that wrong my bad)

anyways I don’t think there’s any issue with collins wanting a bigger offensive role ....I get he said more ball and player movement but collins is truly asking to get the ball to him in my opinion and I personally as a fan don’t have any issue with that if he’s going to do something with an increased role to make the team better on that end.

hell give him the damn ball ...let’s see what happens cause to me he hasn’t really shown he’s true number 2 option. I’d like to see what collins can do if he has the ball more 

Edited January 9, 2021 by JTB

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, JTB said:

Right I saw that but you and @Buzzard going back and forth seemed odd.

buzzard seems to think it’s selfishness coming from collins while it sounds like you’re trying to downplay that collins is frustrated about his role (if I have that wrong my bad)

anyways I don’t think there’s any issue with collins wanting a bigger offensive role ....I get he said more ball and player movement but collins is truly asking to get the ball to him in my opinion and I personally as a fan don’t have any issue with that if he’s going to do something with an increased role to make the team better on that end.

hell give him the damn ball ...let’s see what happens cause to me he hasn’t really shown he’s true number 2 option. I’d like to see what collins can do if he has the ball more 

I didn't downplay anything.  I stated Collin's entire quotes within the context presented in the article - I preferred not to focus on just 1 part of the comment but the whole since the entire team can and will benefit from getting the offense established early and more free flowing.

[JTB]

As hawks fans we shouldn’t be putting these 2 against each other but rather hoping they both grow from this. Criticism is good it helps you grow but next time this should not be in the public eye.

trae has flaws...collins has flaws....Pierce has flaws....the whole team has flaws....very few players on this team are actual winners or has ever been apart of actual winning teams. 
 

I hope they just shut up and play, let this diva shit go! And if they can’t get past this Pierce will be the first one to face consequences of all of this .

[JTB]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I didn't downplay anything.  I stated Collin's entire quotes within the context presented in the article - I preferred not to focus on just 1 part of the comment but the whole since the entire team can and will benefit from getting the offense established early and more free flowing.

Ok Kirschner tweet doesn’t align with his article...so either click bait or he left some stuff out. I’m not arguing just giving my opinion.

It makes total sense to me because numbers are how you get your money and he knows it especially since he just turned down a contract to bet on himself.

I’m not saying anything is wrong with that as I think collins should get the ball in his hands more just not only for his own benefit but for the whole team. 

[Peoriabird]

I don't understand the need to demonize John in this article or this message board by insinuating that he has nefarious selfish reasons to want more ball movement rather than assuming that he wants to win basketball games.

[MaceCase]

Doing my best not to react but I'm a week away from my earliest edition of my "PANAC!" threads.  Well... earliest by games played, not by calendar month.

[warcore]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Of course it's happened: De'Aaron Fox just this past off season, Chandler Parsons (yes he did), Otto Porter, Mike Conley (unbelievable no allstar right) and everyone's favorite whipping boy Andrew Wiggins.,  I'm sure there are more.

Didn't the Knicks max out Eddie Curry? eesh

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

I don't understand the need to demonize John in this article or this message board by insinuating that he has nefarious self reasons to want more ball movement rather than assuming that he wants to win basketball games.

So, let me be clear and on the record for when we bring this all up in the future...

It seems like I have to say this any time I peek my head out of the shadows, but I am not a hater.  Some people will bash players, coaches, and management just because they don't like them.  I've loved this team since I was little boy and that won't change.  Once someone is a part of the Hawks organization, they have my full support.  It doesn't mean I won't criticize or get frustrated by their actions if they fail.  I'm just not going to hate (discounting Danny Ferry, but I'll not digress).  I'm not going to call someone a bust.  Not going to harp on someone's negatives.  Not going to call for someone's head (or a trade) over small things.

On John Collins...

A*N*Y*B*O*D*Y that brings up money during the season, especially at the start of a critical season like where we are, is going to rub me the wrong way.  I don't like owners, players, coaches...anybody bringing up money. I don't care who it is - Trae, Nique, Bob...  It's a distraction and the players know it. That's why many of them give that standard answer, "I'm just here to help my team, blah-blah-blah...and I'm not focused on that right now etc..."  Talking about money the way John has is a d*ck move and I'm not going to agree with anyone who thinks otherwise.

What he's worth doesn't matter to me so much.  He deserves to get paid and he's more valuable to us than he is to the open market, so pay the man (especially if the rumors are true about this being less about overall money and more about a player option).  I'd even overpay and gamble with the consequences.  Though, I would sooner deal him for equal value than grossly overpay.  Not necessarily equal value at the PF which the Collins Mafia has reminded us isn't available - but something at the 2-5 that returns equal value...or with a package significantly upgrades us.

His desire for more touches and/or switching up the offense seems more like a veil.  Thus far, playing next to Trae in this horrible offense has allowed him to blossom.  It is not easy to defend and works well enough to fill his patented "20/10/40%." But somehow, this is all about how changing things will be better for the team?  The team that is not hitting shots when they are wide open in the current system? They have to hit those shots when they're open regardless of what type of offense gets them the ball.  That failure doesn't fall on one person's shoulders.  That's not even on the coach.

I'm not trying to demonize the man.  The only thing that I can judge him on a personal level is what has come out publicly...  He's opened his own mouth about getting paid, demanding touches, getting more plays called for him, and he's complained about the offense and SPECIFICALLY targeted the guy who's feeding him in it.  This is the textbook definition of "distractions."

I'm going back to Lurkerland, but I wanted to put out where I stand for future reference.  Agree to disagree and all that.

(...and also, Pierce has to get control of this thing.  His seat has to be getting uncomfortably hot)

[kg01]

Whattup @Wretch, welcome to Lurkerland.  I'm the one creepily peeking through the curtains.

I activated lurk mode after the Cleveland game.  This whole kerfuffle just kills me.  Things were going so well just a week or so ago.

Smdh. Nah, more like smmfh.  

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

This is still a very young team that still has a lot of growing to do. But one fact about sports is losing brings out the worst in these competitors and winning cures a multitude of sin.

In my opinion, this anger is slightly misguided and more needs put on the coaching staff... Just the opinion of a Falcons fan here.

[mrhonline]

I felt the same way about JC’s “max” comments as @Wretch. They were divisive, and so it’s hard to ignore them in interpreting this latest development.

Really need Rondo or Capela to become the leader moving forward.

[Gray Mule]

8 hours ago, JTB said:

 

trae has flaws...collins has flaws....Pierce has flaws....the whole team has flaws....very few players on this team are actual winners or has ever been apart of actual winning teams. 
 

 

Yep.  I agree that this Hawk team has many flaws.  But, I disagree about players who have been a part of a winning team.  Not all, for sure, but others are.

[JTB]

9 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I don't understand the need to demonize John in this article or this message board by insinuating that he has nefarious self reasons to want more ball movement rather than assuming that he wants to win basketball games.

Yeah I don’t think there’s a need to demonize JC...I’m actually glad he decided to speak out but next time keep it in the locker room in my opinion ....on the flip side I do disagree that “all jc wants is more ball movement”....LOL yeah ok that’s great of course but I also believe JC wants the ball in his hands more and TO ME there’s nothing wrong with that! He’s strongly considered the 2nd best player to most hawks fans on this team after Trae ....

I really believe he should have the ball in his hands more. Him and Trae should be leading the way offensively with the first unit or whenever they are on the court.

more ball movement and more opportunities with the ball in JCs hands will be a great thing for Trae. Takes a lot of pressure off of him and allows him to work on other things in his game.

[Peoriabird]

1st of all, John was asked about his contract situation and this happened before the season started.  He has not mention his contract situation since.  Secondly, the man has been disrespected the entire time he has been here, Meaning Trae gets all of the headlines but he gets labeled a stat stuffer when in his mind its the total opposite and I agree.  Trae is the stat stuffer because he takes most of the shots and many of them ill advised pointed out even by the coaching staff but Trae continues to take them.  If I were in John's shoes, I would get a little frustrated myself especially after the last 3 games Trae has turned in and Trae's over all performances in the 4 quarter of games.  Even with those absolute terrible performances by Trae, fans continue to give Trae the pass but criticize the rest of the team for not shooting well so I have 2  question for you guys...How many Fing threes has Trae hit over the past 3 games?  How many Turnover has Trae had over the past 3 games???  So lets be fair when judging the team and its players for a change.

[Dean Walker]

I told you guys jc should have been traded in the off-season.

[JayBirdHawk]

11 hours ago, JTB said:

Right I saw that but you and @Buzzard going back and forth seemed odd.

buzzard seems to think it’s selfishness coming from collins while it sounds like you’re trying to downplay that collins is frustrated about his role (if I have that wrong my bad)

anyways I don’t think there’s any issue with collins wanting a bigger offensive role ....I get he said more ball and player movement but collins is truly asking to get the ball to him in my opinion and I personally as a fan don’t have any issue with that if he’s going to do something with an increased role to make the team better on that end.

hell give him the damn ball ...let’s see what happens cause to me he hasn’t really shown he’s true number 2 option. I’d like to see what collins can do if he has the ball more 

The twitter headline vs the entirety of the article sets the tone which I think does the entire piece a disservice. So if you haven't been able to read the entire article, your position will be based on the twitter byline. Here's another snippet:

Quote

.......others see Collins’ views differently, claiming his focus in the film session was on the need for Young to maximize the deep roster of talent that now surrounds him.

Some Hawks have agreed with Collins’ stance and believe when he’s featured more, the team plays much better. After Collins spoke up in the team’s film session, the message from the coaching staff was that the Hawks have to do a better job of making opposing teams work on defense because of the offensive weapons they now have, and settling on bad looks early in the shot clock is not a recipe for success.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

9 hours ago, Wretch said:

A*N*Y*B*O*D*Y that brings up money during the season, especially at the start of a critical season like where we are, is going to rub me the wrong way. 

Collins' last comment on his contract was the deadline day of extention eligibility BEFORE the season, where he stated he thought they were in a good place to get it done. 

He has not talked about his contract since this season has started. 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The twitter headline vs the entirety of the article sets the tone which I think does the entire piece a disservice. So if you haven't been able to read the entire article, your position will be based on the twitter byline. Here's another snippet:

 

Please tell me Jbird...Why is this such a difficult concept for other posters to understand??? And why would any poster respond to this message by saying, " I told y'all we should have traded John Collins before the season"?  Do people not want this team to win?  Or do they really think that Trae chucking up shots while shooting poorly and turning the ball over wrecklessly is a recipe for success?  Help me understand this MB please!!!