Uh oh...Ice vs The Baptist

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Collins' last comment on his contract was the deadline day of extention eligibility BEFORE the season, where he stated he thought they were in a good place to get it done. 

He has not talked about his contract since this season has started. 

What is the Heck is going on JBird?  Why are people making up some false narritive to demonize John???  What has John done to become this disliked???  Criticize Trae?  Really?

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Please tell me Jbird...Why is this such a difficult concept for other posters to understand??? And why would any poster respond to this message by saying, " I told y'all we should have traded John Collins before the season"?  Do people not want this team to win?  Or do they really think that Trae chucking up shots while shooting poorly and turning the ball over wrecklessly is a recipe for success?  Help me understand this MB please!!!

Well to be honest, some people in tbid thread also wanted to trade Trae too. Lol.....they're both ludicrous statements IMO.

The first 5 games we looked like a well oiled machine, no complaints.

The last 3 games not so much - complaints.

It's a long season, so I'm not worried. We need both players to be at their best if we are to make the playoffs.

[kg01]

Can we just play and win, please?

That's all kg wants right now.

Well that and world peace.  I'll take that too, while I'm asking.

Feels like it's been 6 months since our last game again.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The first 5 games we looked like a well oiled machine, no complaints.

 

I would say the 1st 2 games and the 2nd Brooklyn game.  The Detroit game not so much.  Trae has displayed the same bad habit of chucking in most of the games this season with unnecessary turnovers.  He is now averaging more turnovers this season that last season while shooting much worse so Trae's play has to improve.

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I would say the 1st 2 games and the 2nd Brooklyn game.  The Detroit game not so much.  Trae has displayed the same bad habit of chucking in most of the games this season with unnecessary turnovers.  He is now averaging more turnovers this season that last season while shooting much worse so Trae's play has to improve.

I disagree. The Detroit game, i think it was more a loss of focus in the 4th quarter after being up big. The 1st Brooklyn game we put up 141 points, so still well oiled on offense, neither team was able to stop the other though. We lacked execution down the stretch, but we were within 1pt with 45 seconds left.  

I also disagree about Trae chucking, he has been more selective with those 3s so far and his floater has been off. The live ball TOs are still problematic.

 

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I disagree. The Detroit game, i think it was more a loss of focus in the 4th quarter after being up big. The 1st Brooklyn game we put up 141 points, so still well oiled on offense, neither team was able to stop the other though. We lacked execution down the stretch, but we were within 1pt with 45 seconds left. 

 

Maybe y'all just focus on offense but i don't. In Detroit, we were out rebounded by a bunch of nobodies who had 17 offensive rebounds.  I don't think that is well oiled and in the 1st Brooklyn game the 2nd half defense was atrocious.

[Buzzard]

I don't care if Collins gets 15 and 8 or 25 and 10. I don't care if he gets 20 million or 28 million a season. I only care about this team winning. The shooters need to shoot and be healthy. Otherwise this team is the exact same team as last season. I am hoping for better.

Singling out Trae on these losses is the same as blaming him for everyone's shooting and injury woes. That is a piss poor teammate in my opinion. And btw, I have been a Collins supporter since day 1. If Collins wants to see more ball movement, he should try doing it himself sometimes. I don't know of any rule that says he cannot kick it out to a open three point shooter.

Instead of being a black hole on offense, try doing what Trae does so much of. Give the damn ball up when you have two or three defenders draped over you.

[JTB]

It’s a silly reaction for anyone to say trade Trae or Collins....come on folks let’s be realistic here.

This isn’t a clash this is just a growth stage our two best young players right now are facing .

 

we really have to stop overreacting about busting up a good thing. I’m upset too but let’s see how this plays out before we start suggesting trades, etc.

[hawkman]

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

Can we just play and win, please?

That's all kg wants right now.

Well that and world peace.  I'll take that too, while I'm asking.

Feels like it's been 6 months since our last game again.

Winning may be all it takes to make this all go away. I'm hoping this is just a case of a young team with high expectations hitting its first bit of adversity and not reacting well to it. Hopefully, they used the time off to regroup and get things ironed out. 

[JayBirdHawk]

So now Chris Kirschner and Rashard Phillips are going at it 

 

 

 

You've gotta click the links and replies. Lol.

[JeffS17]

18 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I don't care if Collins gets 15 and 8 or 25 and 10. I don't care if he gets 20 million or 28 million a season. I only care about this team winning. The shooters need to shoot and be healthy. Otherwise this team is the exact same team as last season. I am hoping for better.

Singling out Trae on these losses is the same as blaming him for everyone's shooting and injury woes. That is a piss poor teammate in my opinion. And btw, I have been a Collins supporter since day 1. If Collins wants to see more ball movement, he should try doing it himself sometimes. I don't know of any rule that says he cannot kick it out to a open three point shooter.

Instead of being a black hole on offense, try doing what Trae does so much of. Give the damn ball up when you have two or three defenders draped over you.

 

11 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So now Chris Kirschner and Rashard Phillips are going at it 

 

 

 

You've gotta click the links and replies. Lol.

lol I love this -- Kirschner has done a good job on Hawks reporting, as has Sarah.  I like both of them. 

[hawkzlova123]

*grabs the popcorn*

[marco102]

Why can't we have nice things? All this drama on social media is so not necessary.

[kg01]

6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Why can't we have nice things? All this drama on social media is so not necessary.

Players goin' at it (sic)

Media goin' at it.

It's all-out warrrrrrrr in Hawks-town.  All that's missing is squawkers goin at it.  C'mon, marc ....

[Thomas]

Well if folks think JC has an attitude problem please do realize that Omari Spellman is now just recently out of a job and is hungry for a roster spot. So things are looking up....right?

[macdaddy]

Just now, Thomas said:

Well if folks think JC has an attitude problem please do realize that Omari Spellman is now just recently out of a job and is hungry for a roster spot. So things are looking up....right?

Damn who drafted that guy?

 

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Players goin' at it (sic)

Media goin' at it.

It's all-out warrrrrrrr in Hawks-town.  All that's missing is squawkers goin at it.  C'mon, marc ....

....we wanted 2020 to end, since we thought 2021 was gonna be better...yet here we are 8 days in....can we get to 2022 already? 

You got any sources from 2022, our did your wormhole to the future collapse?

[Thomas]

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Damn who drafted that guy?

 

I am a solid TS fan but that was a serious miss with some quality cats following behind him later in the draft.

[Wretch]

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Collins' last comment on his contract was the deadline day of extention eligibility BEFORE the season, where he stated he thought they were in a good place to get it done. 

He has not talked about his contract since this season has started. 

I think I was clear, but apologies for not being crystal clear...and I hope the board will forgive me if I'm not perfectly, crystal, clear...lol Seriously, I don't want to be accused of moving goalposts and changing what I said, etc. so let me try to be perfectly, crystal, clear....I don't like players talking about their money.  I said "during the season", I was referring more to the timing of their comments.  Which...there never really is a good time.  In John's case though, he has been open about his worth and has not stopped talking about it since the press has been asking about it.

- March 2020
There’s also the possibility the Hawks will wait until the summer of 2021 to pay Collins and let him enter restricted free agency so the market could set itself. “I wouldn’t take it personal, but my antennas would be up, for sure,” Collins said. “If I can leave it at that. My antennas would be up.”

- March 2020
“I definitely feel like I am in max contract contention. If I finish this season averaging 20 and 10, the other guys who are averaging 20 and 10 are max-caliber guys. I’m in that conversation and feel like I am worthy of being extended as such."

- March 2020
“I feel like that’s no question. Priority in terms of — I don’t know. I definitely feel like I am a priority to them. For a lot of money? I just don’t know personally. I feel like it’s been a unique situation, but I feel like my play has garnered a bigger contract. This is when you want to start comparing, but it’s just a matter of if they’re going to reciprocate the respect back."

- May 2020
"When we're talking max numbers and money, I feel like I definitely (am in) the conversation to have earned that money with the Hawks specifically, but obviously I know there's business and we don't always get exactly what we want," he said.

- May 2020
I feel like we’ve both invested ourselves in each other… I feel like we both want to see our investments in each other pay off. In that sense, I just want to know where I am. I want to know I’m locked in as soon as I can rather than having to wait, which I know happens, but when you do wait, a lot of other stuff mentally creeps in during the season while I’m tired, while I’m playing, ups and downs, injuries, but that’s also a part of just being a pro athlete.”

-June 2020

Dec 1, 2020
"Everytime I come into the gym, that's definitely the first thing on my mind."

Now, preface all of his contract comments with this:

- November 2019
"First I want to apologize to my teammates, the Hawks organization, our fans, partners and community as a whole for this situation. I understand the impact this matter has on what we are trying to achieve together this season, and I am incredibly frustrated and disappointed in myself for putting all of us in this position. I have always been incredibly careful about what I put in my body, but I took a supplement which, unbeknownst to me, had been contaminated with an illegal component. I plan to fight my suspension in arbitration so I can get back on the court as soon as possible and continue to contribute to our 2019-20 campaign.”
 

And cap it with this:

- January 2021

"According to three sources who were either in the session or had knowledge of what was said, Collins raised several issues about the way these Hawks were functioning with Young at the helm. Collins talked about the need to get into offensive sets more quickly and to limit all those early shot-clock attempts that leave his teammates on the outside looking in. He shared his desire to be more involved and expressed a desire for more ball involvement and flow on offense. There was no back-and-forth between the two, but the pointed criticism caught the attention of the room. And Young, sources say, made it clear to others later that he strongly disagreed with Collins' assessment."

Read between the bold lines there.  That's bad.  That's not a back and forth.  That's Collins calling out Trae in front of everyone and Trae not talking to Collins directly about it, but rather having private conversations with others.  That's some divisive shit right there, and I'll take a stand on this as well.  If you have problems with the offense, take it up with the coach...or just talk it over privately with Trae if he's truly your "brother regardless" and all that.  This is why you have a coach though...

I am not saying John is a bad person.
I am not saying John is a locker room cancer or a bad teammate
I am not saying John should not negotiate for the most money that he feels he is worth.
I am not saying that John ISN'T worth A LOT of money.

I'm not saying any of that.  I am saying this dude is causing distractions.  He should deflect conversations about his contract.  Give the standard answers and keep that stuff between you, your agent, the management, and the guy who writes the checks.  Care should be taken so that contract negotiations do not become a distraction.  From PEDs, the contract talks, to wanting plays called for him, to wanting more touches, to criticizing the offense, to singling out Trae (to the point where it visibly affected him), John Collins has been a distraction and I'm not ok with it.  He's a good player, he's a perfect complimentary player, and an incredible partner for Trae...he's worth a lot of money...but someone needs to put a lid on this shit and HE is responsible, and needs to take responsibility, for his part in it. 

Jay, I respect your opinion, A LOT, but this is one something that I am decidedly on the other side of the fence on.  I can only hope that it's not affecting the team the way it's drawing lines here...

[kg01]

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

....we wanted 2020 to end, since we thought 2021 was gonna be better...yet here we are 8 days in....can we get to 2022 already? 

You got any sources from 2022, our did your wormhole to the future collapse?

Well, to be fair, I predicted a slow start and a better finish once everybody got used to each other.  So, technically, I'm still right(ish)? 

We just have to have the gutts to make it through the start.