Cam over Bogi for the chip

[sillent]

We had an outstanding playoff run that's only going to get harder from here because we're not surprising people anymore. 

We beat the Knicks and 76ers but there was a key factor to that. Knicks and 76ers don't have elite shooting guards.

When we have to face the Bradley Beal's, Jimmy Butler's, James Harden, Khris Middleton, Jayson and Jaylen and other elite teams we're going to need elite defense as well as elite offense to win a championship.

We played 3 on 5 against Milwaukee especially when Trae and Bogi were hurt. Young has definitely stepped up his defense but he still needs to be hidden on that end of the floor. Bogi is a decent but not elite defender. I'd bet on Cam and Hunter any day that I need a defensive stopper which is why ultimately to win a chip Cam must be our starting shooting guard and DeAndre Hunter our starting small forward if Trae and JC are our other 2 stars. I love JC but if he was our only/main option against Julius Randle that series could have went a little different. Defense still wins championships. You can get away with it with better talent than the rest but once you start to face similar talent defense is the X Factor. 

Our starting lineup at the end of the season should be 

PG Trae Young, SG Cam Reddish SF DeAndre Hunter,  PF John Collins,C Onyeka Okongwu 

A bench consisting of Bogi, Huerter, Gallo, Clint and a PG or even Lou Will is a dangerous one. We're no longer just trying to look good in the regular season we are trying to win a championship and in order to do so we need the right pieces in the right places at the right time. 

Bogi and Huerter are great pieces but if you want to win a championship and we're running across teams with elite wings we need a Cam Reddish and a DeAndre Hunter to pair with Trae.

 

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, sillent said:

We had an outstanding playoff run that's only going to get harder from here because we're not surprising people anymore. 

We beat the Knicks and 76ers but there was a key factor to that. Knicks and 76ers don't have elite shooting guards.

When we have to face the Bradley Beal's, Jimmy Butler's, James Harden, Khris Middleton, Jayson and Jaylen and other elite teams we're going to need elite defense as well as elite offense to win a championship.

We played 3 on 5 against Milwaukee especially when Trae and Bogi were hurt. Young has definitely stepped up his defense but he still needs to be hidden on that end of the floor. Bogi is a decent but not elite defender. I'd bet on Cam and Hunter any day that I need a defensive stopper which is why ultimately to win a chip Cam must be our starting shooting guard and DeAndre Hunter our starting small forward if Trae and JC are our other 2 stars. I love JC but if he was our only/main option against Julius Randle that series could have went a little different. Defense still wins championships. You can get away with it with better talent than the rest but once you start to face similar talent defense is the X Factor. 

Our starting lineup at the end of the season should be 

PG Trae Young, SG Cam Reddish SF DeAndre Hunter,  PF John Collins,C Onyeka Okongwu 

A bench consisting of Bogi, Huerter, Gallo, Clint and a PG or even Lou Will is a dangerous one. We're no longer just trying to look good in the regular season we are trying to win a championship and in order to do so we need the right pieces in the right places at the right time. 

Bogi and Huerter are great pieces but if you want to win a championship and we're running across teams with elite wings we need a Cam Reddish and a DeAndre Hunter to pair with Trae.

 

Let's not get all Chris Crawford because of a good Playoff series. 

Let's go with what we had and if Cam works his way into the starting position, so be it. 

[sillent]

17 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Let's not get all Chris Crawford because of a good Playoff series. 

Let's go with what we had and if Cam works his way into the starting position, so be it. 

Chris Crawford was decent lol but Cam has true potential to be a star right along with Trae and Dre. It's the intangibles.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, sillent said:

Chris Crawford was decent lol but Cam has true potential to be a star right along with Trae and Dre. It's the intangibles.

I don't disagree.   But even a true potential has to earn his spot.   Didn't we learn anything from Marvin.

The point is that if it's there, it will come out and Cam will win the position.   At which time, we should probably move Bogi.   But for now, Bogi has more experience.  He has earned his spot.   Until Cam shows us that he can consistently do more than Bogi, let's let it be. 

[ATLHawks3]

Consistency is key for Cam right now. Until he gets to that point, he needs to keep working to earn it.

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, sillent said:

Chris Crawford was decent lol but Cam has true potential to be a star right along with Trae and Dre. It's the intangibles.

Diesel recently wanted to continue playing Solo over Cam Reddish. I don't think he sees the bigger picture. That said, I have no issues playing Bogi over Cam. His impact metrics were top 10 in the NBA when he was healthy. He offers tremendous fit with Trae even if they are food against better offenses in the NBA. That's why we got serious depth 

[marco102]

I think Bogi continues to start. If Cam continues to drop twenty off the bench with great defense, leave him in that role as long as we have Bogi. 

Cam is definitely the future at two guard as long as his offense becomes more consistent.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Cam's numbers are better when he comes off the bench.  Also, he did not play a single second of the New York/Philly series and had plenty of rest for his playoff debut in the Milwaukee series.  I'm high on Cam as well, but pump the brakes on this starter talk. I'm fine with Cam and Huerter being our 1-2 punch off the bench.  Get us a quality veteran backup PG and our bench will be the best in the league.

C - OO

PF - Gallo

SF - Cam

SG - Huerter

PG - Lou or quality vet

That's a better starting lineup than five teams in the league.

[Peoriabird]

For this team to reach is full potential Cam has to start.  Bogi is a nice player but obviously does not have star potential and basically has to be hidden on defense.  His offense is not dynamic in that he is for the most part a spot up shooter who doesn't get to the free throw line.  Huerter has even added more variety to his game than Bogdanovic with his ability to create space for himself in the lane with that turn around shot.  Everything about Bogi's game screams spark off the bench type player.  Just 1 man's opinion of course

[Atlantaholic]

22 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Diesel recently wanted to continue playing Solo over Cam Reddish. I don't think he sees the bigger picture. That said, I have no issues playing Bogi over Cam. His impact metrics were top 10 in the NBA when he was healthy. He offers tremendous fit with Trae even if they are food against better offenses in the NBA. That's why we got serious depth 

He's not wrong here though. Cam is what, a career 35% shooter, and 30% 3pt shooter?? We all know Cam has potential but it's going to take more than one game for him to overtake Bogi who averaged over 21ppg in 50% the last three months of the season for the Hawks.

[sillent]

I agree with you all and I didn't mean switch Cam immediately but by mid-season in preparation for the playoffs Cam needs to be in that starting role. We lacked getting good starts when shots were off because we couldn't defend.

We also lucked up and played teams that had decent but not great SG's. When we run across teams with 2 good wings like Boston or Brooklyn and even to a lesser extent in Miami/Pacers/Hornets we will need our best wing defenders with Trae.

[capstone21]

Bogi was our second best player this year and probably saved our season … his knee that he hurt in the philly series screwed up his game and he hadn’t been the same since.  I expect him to be back to his old self when the new season starts .

[Atlantaholic]

11 minutes ago, sillent said:

I agree with you all and I didn't mean switch Cam immediately but by mid-season in preparation for the playoffs Cam needs to be in that starting role. We lacked getting good starts when shots were off because we couldn't defend.

We also lucked up and played teams that had decent but not great SG's. When we run across teams with 2 good wings like Boston or Brooklyn and even to a lesser extent in Miami/Pacers/Hornets we will need our best wing defenders with Trae.

It all depends on what Cam and Bogi do next year. Bogi was second best on the team in defensive Raptor (adjusted +-)  with a +1.2 despite the reisdent trolls claims of his poor defense, and was second best in offensive Raptor with a +2.5 for a total net of 3.7+ which was top 28 in the NBA. Keep in mind this is a net that takes into account his poor start. If we get the second half of the season Bogi again those numbers would all be much improved so we are talking about easy a top-25 season. Cam would need to outplay that win the job... if he does that would be enormous for the Hawks, but I would hold my horses on that expectation, players don't just go from shooting 37% and 30% from three to becoming good shooters overnight. He had a good playoff series against Milwaukee and Bogi had an inconsistent one playing on a bum knee... lets not jump to conclusions based on a handful of games when we are gonna need to play 82 of them just to get the playoffs next year. Our offense with Bogi and Trae both at 100% is top 3 caliber, and our defense was hovering at around top 10iss since Nate took over. There will be plenty of minutes for Cam, literally all the minutes Solo got will be his now. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Cam would have to seriously outplay Bogi in training camp and preseason.

Cam would have to show some level of consistency shooting the ball, handling the ball and running the offense and getting the team into sets particularly when teams double and triple team Trae, this was something he struggled with at the start of last season.  Bogi was the outlet to teams keying in on Trae.

They way I see it - it's a good problem to have. LET THE BATTLE BEGIN.  (Besides I'm more concerned with who ends games).

[RandomFan]

I'm fine with Cam coming off the bench next season for 20 to 25 minutes per night for mainly one reason --- minutes restriction coming off a mostly missed season. You have to be conditioned to play big minutes over 82 games. And then to add a deep playoff run on top of it too? 

Yeah, let Cam work himself back into shape without wearing himself out before the playoffs even start. At least until mid-season. 

[AHF]

I think Cam has the highest ceiling of all our wings, including Bogi, Huerter and Hunter.  He also has the lowest floor as we saw for large parts of last season and this season.  For this team to reach its maximum potential, Cam needs to likewise realize his potential.  So the question then becomes what is the best way to help him realize that potential.  Frankly, I don't think whether he starts or not is important to his development at least for next season.  He needs to play very meaningful minutes but he can do that whether he is starting or coming off the bench.  

Coming from the other direction, I think Bogi earned his starting role this season and so absolutely should start the next season in that role (absent injury issues or some other extreme event affecting that).  Cam is obviously a much better defender so he has the potential to seize the starting role but he actually has to do it before you turn the reins over.  

As others have said, consistency is the name of the game with Cam.  The swings are pretty crazy with him and his shooting #s add up to total numbers that are detrimental to the team (37.8% FG%, 30.9% 3pt%, .496% TS%) but he has had good stretches too.  Career to date, he has three significant groups of games with wildly different results:

2019-20

October - December 32.1% FG%, 26.1% 3pt%  (31 games)

January - March 44.5% FG%, 39.6% 3pt% (27 games)

2020-21  Regular Season 36.5% FG%, 26.2% 3pt%  (26 games)

His playoff run is obviously skewed by small sample size but let's throw it in there as well:

2020-21 Playoffs 52.8% FG%, 64.3% 3pt% (4 games)

When he consistently scores at a reasonably efficient level, the sky is the limit and I expect him to seize the starting job when he does that.  Until then, he should get major minutes and keep showing his development and growth.

[Atlantaholic]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think Cam has the highest ceiling of all our wings, including Bogi, Huerter and Hunter.  He also has the lowest floor as we saw for large parts of last season and this season.  For this team to reach its maximum potential, Cam needs to likewise realize his potential.  So the question then becomes what is the best way to help him realize that potential.  Frankly, I don't think whether he starts or not is important to his development at least for next season.  He needs to play very meaningful minutes but he can do that whether he is starting or coming off the bench.  

Coming from the other direction, I think Bogi earned his starting role this season and so absolutely should start the next season in that role (absent injury issues or some other extreme event affecting that).  Cam is obviously a much better defender so he has the potential to seize the starting role but he actually has to do it before you turn the reins over.  

As others have said, consistency is the name of the game with Cam.  The swings are pretty crazy with him and his shooting #s add up to total numbers that are detrimental to the team (37.8% FG%, 30.9% 3pt%, .496% TS%) but he has had good stretches too.  Career to date, he has three significant groups of games with wildly different results:

2019-20

October - December 32.1% FG%, 26.1% 3pt%  (31 games)

January - March 44.5% FG%, 39.6% 3pt% (27 games)

2020-21  Regular Season 36.5% FG%, 26.2% 3pt%  (26 games)

His playoff run is obviously skewed by small sample size but let's throw it in there as well:

2020-21 Playoffs 52.8% FG%, 64.3% 3pt% (4 games)

When he consistently scores at a reasonably efficient level, the sky is the limit and I expect him to seize the starting job when he does that.  Until then, he should get major minutes and keep showing his development and growth.

I think more inconsistency would be the reasonabel expectation going into next season, which is why having depth is great for us. We can navigate his slumps by playing Bogi and Huerter more minutes, and if he has it going we can decide which one of Bogi, Huerter, Hunter sits in his stead depending on who is struggling that particualar day. If everyone is on it, who cares who plays, we are winning regardless lol. 

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

Let's not get all Chris Crawford because of a good Playoff series. 

Let's go with what we had and if Cam works his way into the starting position, so be it. 

Did you just liken Chris Crawford to Cam? ummmmm @NBASupes ready for a tag team? Lol.

Cam is the best thing since sliced bread Diesel. 

[AHF]

41 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Did you just liken Chris Crawford to Cam? ummmmm @NBASupes ready for a tag team? Lol.

Cam is the best thing since sliced bread Diesel. 

No comparison between a guy whose potential wasn't highly regarded who leveraged a big contract out of a brief hot spurt in the playoffs and a guy who was chosen by the largest number of his peers and some scouts as the best future pro out of his class despite being very raw who stepped up big in his second year.

Rookie Survey Says Cam Reddish Will Be Better Than Zion Williamson

https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/sports/rookie-survey-says-cam-reddish-will-be-better-than-zion-williamson

Also if we are just comparing what they did in the playoffs, Cam was MUCH better than Crawford on both ends of the floor.  His defense speaks for itself but here is the offense:

Crawford

Cam

Crawford had one huge game 1 against NY with 26 points on 7-14 shooting and then shot 3-23 the rest of the series.  And got a nice long-term deal out of it.  

Not a good comparison.

[Peoriabird]

3 hours ago, capstone21 said:

Bogi was our second best player this year

People disrespect John Collins so much around here it ain't even funny anymore.