2021-2022 Post/In- Between Game Thread: Thoughts, Updates, Tidbits etc.

[kg01]

9 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I'm not a Doc apologist by any means... but the problem is more far reaching than Doc.

The real problem started Here:

 

The process made them choose Ben Simmons over everything.   I'm sure that the mental character of Simmons showed itself even before he flaked out. 

The problem continued with:

Morey gave up a King's ransom for James Harden.

IF Doc is smart, he should resign today.

Otherwise, the collapse of Philly will be pinned to him. 

Seth Curry would have given more than Harden did in these playoffs. 

 

Oh I agree but I refuse to miss the opportunity to post that rivers gif.

With Morey, I can see them prioritizing Harden over JoeLLLLLLLL.  I mean, that dude compared Harden favorably to Jordan.  The delusion is strong with that one.

[Atlantaholic]

23 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Any team that trade for him, will get him for cheap.

Brooklyn hasn't gone implosion yet.. but they should. 

 

You're not getting him for cheap. You need to send back 33 million in salary, and then eat his contract for nothing if he sits out. What's cheap?

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Ya know, the best thing about a leader is they step up, take the blame, and don't low-key finger-point when things don't go well.

I mean, sure, JoeLLLLLLLL pointed the finger(s) at Simmons last year but there's no way .... no way he'd do that again to a teammate after yet another frustrating and stunning loss.  I can't imagine a world where he hasn't learned his lesson on th....

Meanwhile, JoeLLLLLLLL be like ....

And the Harden part isn't even the worst throw under the bus:

"I think all of us could be more aggressive whether it's Tyrese, Tobias, or guys coming off the bench"

LOL.   

[marco102]

Well it begins for Kyrie.

 

[macdaddy]

What's the uncertainty around his NBA future though?   The vaccine mandate will probably be dead next season and the dude scored like crazy.   I agree he's out there but someone will want him if not the Nets. 

[marco102]

Just now, macdaddy said:

What's the uncertainty around his NBA future though?   The vaccine mandate will probably be dead next season and the dude scored like crazy.   I agree he's out there but someone will want him if not the Nets. 

It's not even about someone wanting him.  Many in the league thinks he's not passionate about basketball and may just simply quit.

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Well it begins for Kyrie.

 

Like, I'm glad he's in a position to eschew all that money to be an activist of sorts.

But I completely resent that he apparently doesn't recognize he can eschew all that money to be an activist of sorts ... because he's in a position to eschew all that money to be an activist of sorts.

Like, stop pretending like basketball is in the way.  Basketball, for you, is the way.

Kyrie-hater, Scalabrine even admitted that Kyrie does in fact love basketball and loves working at it, etc.  So I wish he'd stop pretending like he doesn't.  That's being a poser.

[JayBirdHawk]

19 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

You're not getting him for cheap. You need to send back 33 million in salary, and then eat his contract for nothing if he sits out. What's cheap?

Cheap is sending put Gallo and Bogi for Simmons and Nets 1st round pick in 2023 - in other words, they'll be paying us to take him.

 

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

What's the uncertainty around his NBA future though?   The vaccine mandate will probably be dead next season and the dude scored like crazy.   I agree he's out there but someone will want him if not the Nets. 

He's in the same boat as Harden...looking for long term max contracts with an option for next year. Do they pick up the options and try and rehab their values next season or decline and HOPE their current teams want to extend them.

I'm hoping they both decline then end up having to take vet mins......mwhahaha!

[macdaddy]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Like, I'm glad he's in a position to eschew all that money to be an activist of sorts.

But I completely resent that he apparently doesn't recognize he can eschew all that money to be an activist of sorts ... because he's in a position to eschew all that money to be an activist of sorts.

Like, stop pretending like basketball is in the way.  Basketball, for you, is the way.

Kyrie-hater, Scalabrine even admitted that Kyrie does in fact love basketball and loves working at it, etc.  So I wish he'd stop pretending like he doesn't.  That's being a poser.

You can certainly do a lot of good in the world with a lot of money.   But you can do a lot more good with a lot of money and i high profile.  He quits basketball and no one really cares what he says anymore.  

He aint' quitting though.  

[Atlantaholic]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Cheap is sending put Gallo and Bogi for Simmons and Nets 1st round pick in 2023 - in other words, they'll be paying us to take him.

 

He's in the same boat as Harden...looking for long term max contracts with an option for next year. Do they pick up the options and try and rehab their values next season or decline and HOPE their current teams want to extend them.

I'm hoping they both decline then end up having to take vet mins......mwhahaha!

Yup, and if that's cheap that's not something I'd be happy to pay for. Heck if it was Bogi straight up for Simmons I wouldn't love it. 

[kg01]

5 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

You can certainly do a lot of good in the world with a lot of money.   But you can do a lot more good with a lot of money and i high profile.  He quits basketball and no one really cares what he says anymore.  

He aint' quitting though.  

All true.  And I have no expectation that he'd walk away from it.  He just wants people to think he would because it makes him look/sound sooo cerebral or w/e.

You can use your platform to support causes without playing the part of a martyr.

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Yup, and if that's cheap that's not something I'd be happy to pay for. Heck if it was Bogi straight up for Simmons I wouldn't love it. 

Really?   I'm a huge fan of Bogi but i'd do that in a heartbeat.   If they are sending us a 1st then hell yes.

[Atlantaholic]

6 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Really?   I'm a huge fan of Bogi but i'd do that in a heartbeat.   If they are sending us a 1st then hell yes.

Ah yea, I got confused thought it was us sending back a first. But still... I would rather have Bogi at 16 million than Simmons at 32 million all day every day. 

Bogi got us 1 WAR for every 3 million dollars we paid him last year, VS Ben Simmons in 2020-21 who gave Philly 1 WAR for every 5.5 Million dollars. And that's without weighing in the 0.0 WAR he provided to both Nets and Philly this year not playing because he didn't feel like it. 

[AHF]

 

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

I'm not a Doc apologist by any means... but the problem is more far reaching than Doc.

The real problem started Here:

 

 

I would love to see the alternative universe where the process actually played out.  Do you remember what happened when Philly followed the process?  They got Embiid and Simmons who were at least an ECF and multiple post-season wins even though they never elevated to NBA finals or anything.  Even though they clearly failed to optimize the results, they still ended up much better than they started and have won at better than a 61% clip for the last 5 years.  If 5 teams ran "The Process", you'd expect that some would have worse drafters than Hinkie but that some might have done a lot better and what might have a lot better looked like?  There are a lot of intriguing hypotheticals.  But let's move away from hypotheticals and see how things went from the Simmons / Embiid acquisition to post-Process:

Do you remember what happened when they abandoned the process and hired Colangelo?

• Traded away Jerami Grant for Ersan Ilyasova and then upgraded that by dealing him to us for Tiago Splitter.  lols are appropriate.
• With Jayson Tatum available to them at #3, Colangelo instead chose to trade that pick AND a future lottery pick to take Markelle Fultz.  (Guys like Michael Porter, Jr., Jalen Brunson, Robert Williams, Mitchell Robinson among others were there for that future pick).  Woof.
• Drafted Mikael Bridges and gave him away for Zhaire Smith
• Traded another first round pick along with another second rounder Hinkie had acquired for the right to draft Anzejs Pasecniks.  Who else was available?  Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart, Derrick White among others.  Colangelo deliberately picked a low upside Euro for a draft and stash because he isn't good at his job.
• Gave away the first pick in the second round for garbage.  The Nets happily took Nic Claxton who was their primary center in the playoffs this year.

What value did Hinkie get from all this wheeling and dealing?  Not a damn thing!

So imagine an alternate universe where the Hinkie era plays out exactly as it did through 2016 when he was fired but then is continued by someone competent instead of bringing in a "proven win now" GM like Colangelo and this hypothetical competent GM doesn't waste the horde of picks that Hinkie had acquired:

+Jayson Tatum (actually drafted with their original pick)

+Michael Porter Jr. (actually drafted one spot after the future pick that Philly traded for Fultz and exactly a Hinkie type of player)

+Jerami Grant (actually on the roster already)

+Mikael Bridges (actually drafted by the Sixers before being traded away)

+Kyle Kuzma or Josh Hart or Derrick White (KK, Hart and White all taken in the 5 picks after Pasecniks)

+Nic Claxton (actually drafted with their pick)

None of these are reaches given what Philly was working with.  I certainly wouldn't assume Hinkie or the hypothetical competent GM nails all of them but how about half of them?

Team 1         

Simmons

Jayson Tatum

Jerami Grant

Kyle Kuzma

Embiid

 

Team 2 

Simmons

Mikael Bridges

Jerami Grant

Michael Porter Jr.

Embiid

 

Team 3

Simmons

Derrick White

Jayson Tatum

Kyle Kuzma

Embiid

 

Team 4

Simmons

Mikael Bridges

Josh Hart

Michael Porter Jr.

Embiid

 

Team 5

Simmons

Mikael Bridges

Jayson Tatum

Jerami Grant

Embiid

Etc.

Note that none of these account for free agents that could have been added (Philly had the money to add a max player and Colangelo chose Tobias Harris), for guys already on the roster other than Grant, or use any of the picks the Sixers did keep like Tyrese Maxey.  These teams only reflect what Colangelo gave away + Simmons/Embiid.  

 

 

There is still a lot of very interesting "what could have been" with the Sixers had Colangelo not taken such a massive dump on the pile of assets that Hinkie left for him.

 

[terrell]

10 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Glad you said that. Makes me feel good.

Didnt you say Suns in 4? Im just sayin, the Suns look vunerable.. The Mavs get hot from deep and its over.. Luka is gonna get his..Phoenix better come out on fire...

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

Didnt you say Suns in 4? Im just sayin, the Suns look vunerable.. The Mavs get hot from deep and its over.. Luka is gonna get his..Phoenix better come out on fire...

I think they have figured the Suns out honestly.   I never like Jason Kidd as a coach but he's done a great job.  We're starting to see CP's flaws get exposed.  Suns aren't physical enough.  Crowder isn't skilled enough to be the only guy playing physically. 

[terrell]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

What's the uncertainty around his NBA future though?   The vaccine mandate will probably be dead next season and the dude scored like crazy.   I agree he's out there but someone will want him if not the Nets. 

He'll find something else to bitch about and miss games Im sure.... 

[macdaddy]

13 minutes ago, terrell said:

He'll find something else to bitch about and miss games Im sure.... 

I didn't agree with his vaccine stance but he played every game they let him play.  I'm not defending him at all because i think he's not a winning player anymore but he's never sat out games for no reason (that i remember).

[AHF]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

What's the uncertainty around his NBA future though?   The vaccine mandate will probably be dead next season and the dude scored like crazy.   I agree he's out there but someone will want him if not the Nets. 

Kyrie Irving: 

Games Played

2011-12 - 51 out of 82 games (62.2%)

2012-13 - 59 out of 82 games (71.9%)

2013-14 - 71 out of 82 games (86.5%)

2014-15 - 75 out of 82 games (91.4%)

2015-16 - 53 out of 82 games (64.6%)

2016-17 - 72 out of 82 games (87.8%)

2017-18 - 60 out of 82 games (73.2%)

2018-19 - 67 out of 82 games (81.7%)

2019-20 - 20 out of 72 games (27.8%)

2020-21 - 54 out of 82 games (65.8%)

2021-22 - 29 out of 82 games (35.4%)

 

The bolded seasons are ones in which he missed 22 or more games.  You'll note that these constitute 7 out of his 11 seasons, including his last 3 seasons.  Absolutely people will want him but uncertainty is part of the package with him from a variety of angles.

[Gray Mule]

I see that the Atlanta Hawks are not the only NBA team that gets buried by the Florida Boys team.

We've been told, heads will roll.  We were not that bad last season.  Weren't not that good either.  Atlanta does not need an overpaid, want to be, star player.  They exist out there.

Could it be that we were just too nice?  I don't mean too much mouth either.