What are some deadline deals that you think can help this team now and into the future?

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

Trade John Collins.. The elephant in the room..

Gallo/OO actually worked better than JC down the stretch, not because Gallo is better than JC,  but because Gallo has semblance of perimeter skills (as a former SF) on both offense and defense while JC does not. Gallo is an even better shooter than JC, so not like we need JC to hit open 3s; Gallo can do that. And we all know the Gallo-JC front court is a disaster.

 

So does this mean JC will be benched in 4th quarters going forward? That he will be happy go lucky “whatever the team needs” to ensure Hawks have the best on the court to pull out games going late? Because of his stature and contract, it will be next to impossible for Coach Nate to continue to bench him. Remember Coach Nate also sat him quite a bit last year late in games (for Solo of all people).

 

 

Knee Jerk at it's best.

first off, JC did a lot of work in the first half.  Good work. 

Second....

You say that Gallo shoots better than JC?  Let me show you JC's value.

JC is currently 6th in the League (PG, SG, Everybody) in 3 pt %.  Gallo is 34th. 

JC and Gallo have made the same number of 3 pters for this season. 

Last season, JC shoot 39.9% from 3, Gallo shot 40.6% from 3 while JC shot 55.6% and Gallo shot 43.4%.

Gallo is my sharpeshooter off the bench.. Definitely having a better year than Bogdanovic but he's not a better shooter than JC. 

And Because JC shoots from outside at such a high rate, he's everybody's sought after stretch 4. 

 

So, If it's possible, I would hold on to JC and not trade him unless we were getting a star back.

[Peoriabird]

13 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Knee Jerk at it's best.

first off, JC did a lot of work in the first half.  Good work. 

Second....

You say that Gallo shoots better than JC?  Let me show you JC's value.

JC is currently 6th in the League (PG, SG, Everybody) in 3 pt %.  Gallo is 34th. 

JC and Gallo have made the same number of 3 pters for this season. 

Last season, JC shoot 39.9% from 3, Gallo shot 40.6% from 3 while JC shot 55.6% and Gallo shot 43.4%.

Gallo is my sharpeshooter off the bench.. Definitely having a better year than Bogdanovic but he's not a better shooter than JC. 

And Because JC shoots from outside at such a high rate, he's everybody's sought after stretch 4. 

 

So, If it's possible, I would hold on to JC and not trade him unless we were getting a star back.

Yeah and also those 12 rebounds and 3 blocked shots were none factors also...Some people!  LOL!

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Yeah and also those 12 rebounds and 3 blocked shots were none factors also...Some people!  LOL!

Those are people that don't understand basketball and think that what happens in the last 4 minutes constitutes the whole game. 

I say prisoners of the moment. 

I mean, did you guys miss all those times that Milwaukee was supposed to take off on us during the first 3 quarters and they couldn't get separation?  Why do you suppose that happened?  As I was watching the game, Milwaukee was hitting 3 pter after 3 pter... but I looked at the score and we were down only 7.   Giannis would make some pretty moves and score and we were only down by 7. 

I wish that you guys would quit trying to find narratives that fit with your narrative.   This was a total team victory.  From OO/Gallo to Lu/Delon.... everybody had positive contributions.. and right in their near the top was JC. 

[aali34]

14 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Knee Jerk at it's best.

first off, JC did a lot of work in the first half.  Good work. 

Second....

You say that Gallo shoots better than JC?  Let me show you JC's value.

JC is currently 6th in the League (PG, SG, Everybody) in 3 pt %.  Gallo is 34th. 

JC and Gallo have made the same number of 3 pters for this season. 

Last season, JC shoot 39.9% from 3, Gallo shot 40.6% from 3 while JC shot 55.6% and Gallo shot 43.4%.

Gallo is my sharpeshooter off the bench.. Definitely having a better year than Bogdanovic but he's not a better shooter than JC. 

And Because JC shoots from outside at such a high rate, he's everybody's sought after stretch 4. 

 

So, If it's possible, I would hold on to JC and not trade him unless we were getting a star back.

Nah Gallo is a better shooter, he takes way harder shots and the defense tries to take that shot from him more than they do for JC.

JC is still an elite shooter. I just want him take more to see how his percentage holds up. If you're a legit 40% shooter, you need to take more than 3 attempts per game. Gallo averages almost 10 minutes less but takes one more per game than JC.

 

[Final_quest]

If you look at Gallo's career, he is a volume shooter.  Collins game is around the basket.  Collins is very disciplined and efficient, he only takes open looks when he shoots from the outside.  At the end of the game Collins has more minutes and more opportunity to take open shots than Gallo.  Gallo creates his own shots as a focal point of the 2nd unit.

I would never define the best shooters in the league by a percentage.  Trae takes more threes off the dribble than just about anyone in the league.  Is Collins a better shooter than Trae because of a higher percentage?  

[Diesel]

Just now, aali34 said:

Nah Gallo is a better shooter, he takes way harder shots and the defense tries to take that shot from him more than they do for JC.

JC is still an elite shooter. I just want him take more to see how his percentage holds up. If you're a legit 40% shooter, you need to take more than 3 attempts per game. Gallo averages almost 10 minutes less but takes one more per game than JC.

 

Get those pesky stats out of here....  Gallo is a better shooter because he concentrates on many more things than JC does when he's shooting.  Gallo is thinking about Italian history.  The Pope.   What his mama is making for dinner.  Armani Jeans Milano.  The old country. The three stooges.   Who's on first... COVID 19...  Was Matrix 4 even necessary? The wine from the old country.  Italian Boots.   Casalpusterlengo.  Why didn't Dr. Strange go back in time and Kill Thanos as a child?   His homemade spheghetti recipe.  Who was the cutest girl on three company?  Maserati or Porsche?  If Kang the Conqueror just human, why is he so hard to beat?  Is he who remains the great, great grandson of Reed Richards?  Will Marvel and Sony make good movies or trash?  Will Green Bay win the Superbowl?  Is this Green Bay team better than Farve's Greenbay team?

And with all that on his mind as he's shooting threes, his threes are harder than JCs..

LOL 

 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, Final_quest said:

If you look at Gallo's career, he is a volume shooter.  Collins game is around the basket.  Collins is very disciplined and efficient, he only takes open looks when he shoots from the outside.  At the end of the game Collins has more minutes and more opportunity to take open shots than Gallo.  Gallo creates his own shots as a focal point of the 2nd unit.

I would never define the best shooters in the league by a percentage.  Trae takes more threes off the dribble than just about anyone in the league.  Is Collins a better shooter than Trae because of a higher percentage?  

Who can you count on?

Last year KD shoot 45% from 3.

Trae Shot 34.3% from 3.

Game on the line, who do you want taking a 3 pter?

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Get those pesky stats out of here....  Gallo is a better shooter because he concentrates on many more things than JC does when he's shooting.  Gallo is thinking about Italian history.  The Pope.   What his mama is making for dinner.  Armani Jeans Milano.  The old country. The three stooges.   Who's on first... COVID 19...  Was Matrix 4 even necessary? The wine from the old country.  Italian Boots.   Casalpusterlengo.  Why didn't Dr. Strange go back in time and Kill Thanos as a child?   His homemade spheghetti recipe.  Who was the cutest girl on three company?  Maserati or Porsche?  If Kang the Conqueror just human, why is he so hard to beat?  Is he who remains the great, great grandson of Reed Richards?  Will Marvel and Sony make good movies or trash?  Will Green Bay win the Superbowl?  Is this Green Bay team better than Farve's Greenbay team?

And with all that on his mind as he's shooting threes, his threes are harder than JCs..

LOL 

 

Why do posters hate John Collins so much???  Even when he excels at something, they want to put an asterisk by that stat?  What has John done to this fan base???

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Why do posters hate John Collins so much???  Even when he excels at something, they want to put an asterisk by that stat?  What has John done to this fan base???

John is a talented efficient scorer.  Period.  All the sudden people want to talk about when he can score and under what conditions.

Interestingly, they would never make the same statements about Klay.

They would never make the same statement about Ray Allen when he played with Lebron.

They would never make the same assessment about Pippen.

Didn't all those guys play with somebody who warranted a double team most of the game?

Atlanta Fans always finds one of it's players to hate.  I guess it's JC's turn. 

[Peoriabird]

48 minutes ago, ATLHawks3 said:

When healthy.

So he can only shoot when he is totally healthy while everyone else can play banged up.  Have you seen those Ice bags on Trae's knees lately?

[aali34]

40 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Get those pesky stats out of here....  Gallo is a better shooter because he concentrates on many more things than JC does when he's shooting.  Gallo is thinking about Italian history.  The Pope.   What his mama is making for dinner.  Armani Jeans Milano.  The old country. The three stooges.   Who's on first... COVID 19...  Was Matrix 4 even necessary? The wine from the old country.  Italian Boots.   Casalpusterlengo.  Why didn't Dr. Strange go back in time and Kill Thanos as a child?   His homemade spheghetti recipe.  Who was the cutest girl on three company?  Maserati or Porsche?  If Kang the Conqueror just human, why is he so hard to beat?  Is he who remains the great, great grandson of Reed Richards?  Will Marvel and Sony make good movies or trash?  Will Green Bay win the Superbowl?  Is this Green Bay team better than Farve's Greenbay team?

And with all that on his mind as he's shooting threes, his threes are harder than JCs..

LOL 

 

How often have you seen John take a pullup three? Has he taken one this season? The stats you used are surface level. John shoots a higher percentage on less attempts? Ok?

Both guys shoot atleast 40% so they're good shooters but the eye test obviously shows that Gallo is better at shooting.

You want stats? I got you.

John Collins takes 3.3 attempts a game. He takes 2.1 threes with the defender 6ft away from him which NBA.com defines as "wide open" and hits them at a 45% clip.

Gallo who averages 4 attempts overall takes 1.4 threes with the defender 6ft away(wide open) and hits them at a 53% clip per NBA.com.

98% of John's 3's are assisted to Gallo's 87.3%

So Gallo takes less assisted wide open threes than John while simultaneously taking more threes overall. 

[AHF]

21 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So he can only shoot when he is totally healthy while everyone else can play banged up.  Have you seen those Ice bags on Trae's knees lately?

He is a career 38.5% 3pt shooter (both healthy and hurt).  That is pretty good.  I don't think he is elite but he is worlds better than Dillon Brooks or someone like that.

[aali34]

30 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Why do posters hate John Collins so much???  Even when he excels at something, they want to put an asterisk by that stat?  What has John done to this fan base???

I don't hate John. I want him to be better.

[AHF]

Just now, aali34 said:

How often have you seen John take a pullup three? Has he taken one this season? The stats you used are surface level. John shoots a higher percentage on less attempts? Ok?

Both guys shoot atleast 40% so they're good shooters but the eye test obviously shows that Gallo is better at shooting.

You want stats? I got you.

John Collins takes 3.3 attempts a game. He takes 2.1 threes with the defender 6ft away from him which NBA.com defines as "wide open" and hits them at a 45% clip.

Gallo who averages 4 attempts overall takes 1.4 threes with the defender 6ft away(wide open) and hits them at a 53% clip per NBA.com.

98% of John's 3's are assisted to Gallo's 87.3%

So Gallo takes less assisted wide open three's than John while simultaneously taking more threes overall. 

Looking at the context of the shots is totally fair game.  Shot difficulty definitely plays into the numbers and guys who shoot only wide open corner threes (think Snell for example) don't have the same impact that guys who can create shots under duress do.  JC shoots his jumpers largely when he is left open on the perimeter.  Recognizing that isn't bad mouthing him.  That has a lot of value for a guy who can rim run super effectively and punish people when they don't guard him on the perimeter.  It is just different than guys who are asked to assume more responsibility for scoring in circumstances where they are being more actively defended.

Both JC and Gallo are very good at hitting those open shots.  Gallo is better but that is not a slap on either of them because they are both really outstanding at this.

[Peoriabird]

32 minutes ago, AHF said:

He is a career 38.5% 3pt shooter (both healthy and hurt).  That is pretty good.  I don't think he is elite but he is worlds better than Dillon Brooks or someone like that.

Like I've said in the past about Bogi.  That is all you get from this dude and is that worth $19 mil per year?  Absolutely not.  And now he is even below his career averages shooting wide open 3's.  Like I predicted from the beginning when we 1st signed him, it was a mistake.  Now it should be obvious to everyone just in his 2nd year of a 4 year contract.  He now has a negative contract that the Hawks currently can't move unless they attach assets to in a trade.

[aali34]

28 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Interestingly, they would never make the same statements about Klay.

If John took 7 threes a game while shooting over 40% noone would say anything.

He's got areas in his game that he can improve on. Pointing them out isn't hating, its showing how high his potential is.

[Final_quest]

 

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

Looking at the context of the shots is totally fair game.  Shot difficulty definitely plays into the numbers and guys who shoot only wide open corner threes (think Snell for example) don't have the same impact that guys who can create shots under duress do.  JC shoots his jumpers largely when he is left open on the perimeter.  Recognizing that isn't bad mouthing him.  That has a lot of value for a guy who can rim run super effectively and punish people when they don't guard him on the perimeter.  It is just different than guys who are asked to assume more responsibility for scoring in circumstances where they are being more actively defended.

Both JC and Gallo are very good at hitting those open shots.  Gallo is better but that is not a slap on either of them because they are both really outstanding at this.

You could say the same thing about shots at the rim.  If we find out Gallo converts at a higher percentage at the rim than Collins, does it make Gallo a "better" inside player?  You just can't ignore context.  

No reason to argue this.  It's too easy to understand.  PJ Tucker converts at a high rate when he only takes a couple corner threes a game.  No one ever talks about him as one of the best shooters in the league.  

[aali34]

5 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

No reason to argue this.  It's too easy to understand.  PJ Tucker converts at a high rate when he only takes a couple corner threes a game.  No one ever talks about him as one of the best shooters in the league.  

It's an easy eye test observation, but I guess everyone can't see it. 

[Peoriabird]

14 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

No reason to argue this.  It's too easy to understand.  PJ Tucker converts at a high rate when he only takes a couple corner threes a game.  No one ever talks about him as one of the best shooters in the league.  

Tucker has a career 3 point shooting percentage of 36.5%  42% from the filed.  That's why no one talks about him as a great shooter

[Hawkmoor]

41 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Like I've said in the past about Bogi.  That is all you get from this dude and is that worth $19 mil per year?  Absolutely not.  And now he is even below his career averages shooting wide open 3's.  Like I predicted from the beginning when we 1st signed him, it was a mistake.  Now it should be obvious to everyone just in his 2nd year of a 4 year contract.  He now has a negative contract that the Hawks currently can't move unless they attach assets to a trade.

Bogi is a BIG part of the problem.  A non defender at the two guard BETTER be elite on offense.  The mistake was Bogi instead of DeMar DeRozan.  I got clowned for suggesting DeRozan on this board.  I heard one of the announcers on the Bulls vs Grizzlies game say that the Bulls were clowned for signing DeRozan to a big contract.  The Bulls have gotten the last laugh.  

pg Young

sg DeRozan

sf Hunter

pf Collins

c Okongwu    Capela can go too. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Hawkmoor