this will either be Trae's wake up call or the beginning of his demise

[Wretch]

Also....until we have the right team tailored to him, complete with a 2nd alpha, Trae gets a total pass from me.  A whole stack of get out of jail free cards.  I'm not even ashamed to say it.  Except for the off-ball development, I give precisely zero actual sh!ts about the criticisms LOL

 

[JayBirdHawk]

On 4/23/2022 at 11:21 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Here's the thing with this concept.  This has to be a designed play, you don't want Trae doing a Bazemore (running like a headless chicken), you have to have Trae move with intention and purpose, to have a designed play where he gets the ball back in shooting position. Running offscreens etc requires teammates to set those screens, they have to know when that's happening to set effective screens if that's the play call. Ask Nate if he has any designed plays for this type of action for Trae.

I will say, that when Trae gives up the ball he needs to reposition himself and not stay in the same spot.

I'm late to this thread, but......I'll just repost what I said yesterday above ^...and I'll add - you need someone to actual get him the ball when/if this is added to the play book.

6 hours ago, kg01 said:

Didn't the former coach, who everyone said was the only one to blame for our struggles, want Trae to develop an off-ball game?

(I honestly don't know if he did, just messin' with folks.)

He actually said, playing off ball running off screens has to be designed plays, not just running around aimlessly to do it.

[AHF]

43 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I clearly stated after the game and I think @NBASupes is on the same page.

By removing all the comments on Huerter from the game you are ignoring the sizable majority of the thread where he was savaged and Hunter was not.  But let's go that route.

I'm not counting actual trade proposals like Supes proposing to deal both Hunter and Huerter or Terrell proposing to deal JC & Huerter.  Also not counting comments that say we need to get rid of either Bogi or Huerter because they are essentially duplicates.  Just looking at comments criticizing either Hunter or Huerter from people other than you, me and Supes:

Page 15:  2 critical of Huerter, 2 critical of Hunter

Page 16:  1 critical of Huerter, 1 critical of Hunter 

Page 17:  3 critical of Huerter, 1 critical of Hunter

Page 18:  None

Page 19:  1 critical of Huerter, 2 critical of Hunter

Page 20: 1 critical of Huerter

Page 21: 1 critical of Huerter, 1 critical of Hunter

Page 22:  None

Page 23:  None

Page 24:  1 critical of Huerter, 1 critical of Hunter

Page 25:  None

So tallying that up:

10 comments critical of Huerter

8 comments critical of Hunter

 

Over 11 pages, you see 8 posts critical of Hunter by other posters and you think this is him getting dogpiled or something?  Come on.

There is much more discussion of JC after the game than either of these two.  And much more flaming of Huerter during than the game than anyone else.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 hours ago, kg01 said:

I think you're both right.  Effort is the first step, then he has to know where to go, when, etc.  Timing matters, just can't be a headless chicken out there.  That's where the skill, repetitions come in.

 I'm deeply offended by this remark.

Heeeey....stop copying my homework.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Hunter been getting the most smoke. I agree with that statement. Partly because he's getting the most good looks offensively and his turnovers are very unforced. Another reason is expectations are too high and he's not capable of doing what we need him to do to win games for us. He just does him. Kev and Bogi haven't been getting as much smoke as they don't deserve as much offensively sneaking. That said, a lot of defensive blame coming at Dre since game 1 has been foolish and a lot of misplaced criticism because they don't want to blame Trae. 

Why shouldn't our expectations be high, he is the #4 pick (one pick higher than Trae). We should want our top 5 lottery picks to be game changers....not just 'one of'.....and he may never be that but that should be our expectation.

Granted, I think injuries have slowed his development on offense, but I just wish he had a little more 'oomph' to his defense. For his build I thought he'd be more of a bruiser and punisher with a higher motor.

[JeffS17]

Just got back from a trip and I knew there would be some spicy threads on here but damn... forgot how reactionary everyone here is.

Food for thought: if Trae doesn't go nuclear in Cleveland, this bum team wouldn't be getting embarrassed against a very good ONE seed Miami.  And no one here would be able to criticize him every game because he'd be on the couch at home watching Cleveland get swept.  It's a blessing that we made the playoffs at all so Schlenk can get an even better idea of how a top coach exposes our weaknesses.

[Peoriabird]

11 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Why shouldn't our expectations be high, he is the #4 pick (one pick higher than Trae). We should want our top 5 lottery picks to be game changers....not just 'one of'.....and he may never be that but that should be our expectation.

Granted, I think injuries have slowed his development on offense, but I just wish he had a little more 'oomph' to his defense. For his build I thought he'd be more of a bruiser and punisher with a higher motor.

I think his point was why after this game where there were so many other areas you can go.  Over all how can you expect Hunter to magically be this force going into his 3rd season without an off season before his 2nd and 3rd years?  You can't train and improve your game during the off season if you are hurt especially with an injury as serious as Hunter's was.  And then when he came back, he suffered another injury.  Now them dudes that couldn't guard a chair or throw it in the ocean...Them dude should be the focus of the fanbase not the leading scorer and arguably their best perimeter defender

[AHF]

12 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I think his point was why after this game where there were so many other areas you can go.  Over all how can you expect Hunter to magically be this force going into his 3rd season without an off season before his 2nd and 3rd years?  You can't train and improve your game during the off season if you are hurt especially with an injury as serious as Hunter's was.  And then when he came back, he suffered another injury.  Now them dudes that couldn't guard a chair or throw it in the ocean...Them dude should be the focus of the fanbase not the leading scorer and arguably their best perimeter defender

Since there aren’t many of them, why not post all these posts abusing Hunter and going on and on about him.  We can deconstruct them and point out how off base they are.

The irony is that I’m probably more in your corner on Hunter than many others.  I’ve reset my expectations on him but he can still keep growing as a player and has value on both ends of the floor.  I just really didn’t see much of people going after him in that thread particularly not more so than JC, KH, etc.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 hours ago, AHF said:

It is also a skill set that needs to be developed outside of the playoffs.  You can't bust that out in Game 4 after not having had Trae work consistently on developing his off-ball skills all year and expect anything good to happen.

The only time Trae has played that role in the past has been when he is too hurt to play the role of the primary ballhandler and playmaker.

 

And I think that was the case in Game 4.

He didn't start playing off the ball until he tweaked his foot.

[AHF]

10 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

And I think that was the case in Game 4.

He didn't start playing off the ball until he tweaked his foot.

That was my assumption after the game but I’m not 100% certain.  I am just certain that intentionally playing him off the ball in an absence of an injury would be beyond stupid.

The fact that he took all his shots behind the arc after rolling his ankle does weigh in the direction of it being forced (ie he didn’t have his usual mobility and burst).  
 

On the bigger issue of Trae, this series doesn’t have me doubting him for a second.  He is struggling and is hardly the first young star to have that experience.   But he is our star and I’m all in his corner.

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

Also....until we have the right team tailored to him, complete with a 2nd alpha, Trae gets a total pass from me.  A whole stack of get out of jail free cards.  I'm not even ashamed to say it.  Except for the off-ball development, I give precisely zero actual sh!ts about the criticisms LOL

 

I am 100% with you.  Trae starts all star games, breaks records every month, and took us further in the playoffs than any Atlanta Hawk team has ever been.  Most endorsements, highlight reels, and he’s fun to watch.  
Guys would rather prop up our failed lottery picks.  I don’t get it at all.  

[Watchman]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Being a good off ball player is a skill set. You gotta have stamina off the ball. You gotta constantly move for a purpose. You gotta have tremendous off the ball feel. High BBIQ is a req but Trae actually has that one. And you gotta have great off ball speed and move like a cross country stud. 

Trae just don't got any of that other than the BBIQ. 

This is his own verison of the Jordan rules. MJ didn't figure them out. They got old and Pippen dominated them after his got exposed too. We don't have a Pippen, we need to trade for em. 

I guess I am missing the "high BBIQ" connection.  Repeatedly dribbling over to the sideline, and allowing himself to trapped certainly does not constitute high BBIQ.  Holding the ball, dribbling out the clock, and waiting to the very last few seconds to start "the play" only to result in multiple turnovers or bad shots is also lacking in BBIQ.

Trae is a talented player, but he needs to stop doing stupid things, and learn from them, which he doesn't seem to do.

 

[NekiEcko]

@shakes

@Watchman

I can understand what you're coming from, but we have to remember that he is about to turn 24 years old and still learning to be a leader and he will have problems from time to time.  Miami plays great defense against him all the time and with a great coach like Spo, he had experience dealing with point guards all of the time from Parker to Kyrie and others.  In these situations, the rest of the team have to make the Heat pay for that,  but they do not and Trae has to do more to even get back into the game.

I think Hawks should look for a second star, this series taught us that Trae cannot do this by himself while we want him to off the ball and play defense as well.  But the question is what type of team setup will benefit Trae more.  

Edited April 26, 2022 by NekiEcko

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

Quote

Young can’t breathe with the blur of bodies around him and hands in his face. The Hawks lack the supporting cast to help him. Head coach Nate McMillan, who seemingly did everything right last year, is making puzzling decisions.

 

Quote

Don’t put this on Young. He shares culpability. But as McMillan said, “There’s a guy in Trae’s face as soon as the ball goes to him. They’re basically playing a box and one and switching, committing two or three guys to him.”

Young is built for the playoffs. It turns out the 2021-22 Hawks weren’t.

You know when it’s a bad sign? When a team loses a playoff game and Kevin Knox (12 points) outscores John Collins (11), Young (nine), Bogdan Bogdanovic (four), Kevin Huerter (four) and everybody except De’Andre Hunter (24).

Remember, the Hawks needed to win two Play-In games just to get here. The Heat had their feet up after a 53-win regular season. The Hawks simply aren’t as good, and McMillan has done nothing to help the situation.

There was no rationalization for him failing to call a timeout when Miami went on a 26-4 run to take a 14-point lead before halftime after the Hawks led by eight.

There was no logic in first limiting the minutes of Clint Capela, who played for the first time since suffering a hyperextended knee nine days earlier, but then putting him back into the game with 6:28 remaining and the Hawks down by 26. (McMillan: “Just giving him some minutes. We were getting pounded on the boards.” OK, moving on.)

It was equally bizarre that Collins was kept on the floor after committing his third foul in the second quarter......

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

Quote

They have no answer for how Miami’s defense has guarded Young this series. The Heat have held Young to 20-of-57 shooting from the floor, 7-of-33 from 3, 24 assists to 24 turnovers, just 66 points on 91 possessions — ranking him in the 10th percentile in the postseason, per Synergy Sports.

Miami has made life as difficult as possible for Young. Outside of his late-game performance in Game 3, Young hasn’t been good against the Heat. And when you watch each game, it’s understandable why he hasn’t been his usual dominant self.

 

Quote

......taking Young out of his groove is a death sentence. They just don’t have the go-to secondary option who can consistently break down defenses off the dribble and make them pay when Young doesn’t have the ball. Bogdan Bogdanovic is the Hawks’ best option to do this, and though he’s capable, he’s better suited to be a catch-and-shoot sniper. De’Andre Hunter looked like he might turn into that guy before he tore his meniscus last season, but he’s got turnover issues. Kevin Huerter is a catch-and-shoot threat. John Collins still has a ways to go in terms of breaking down defenders one-on-one. They have one player who can consistently break down people off the dribble: Young. Look around in the other playoff matchups; the true contenders have multiple players who do this at a high level.

 

[Watchman]

17 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

 

Our players don't come to their teammates' aid when they are trapped.  They just stand in their spot with their mouths open.  That is a coaching deficiency.  Secondly, Trae is so small, once he gets trapped, he can't get the ball over his defenders anyway.

[Peoriabird]

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

Same squad as last year

[Peoriabird]

33 minutes ago, NekiEcko said:

@shakes

@Watchman

I can understand what you're coming from, but we have to remember that he is about to turn 24 years old and still learning to be a leader and he will have problems from time to time.  Miami plays great defense against him all the time and with a great coach like Spo, he had experience dealing with point guards all of the time from Parker to Kyrie and others.  In these situations, the rest of the team have to make the Heat pay for that,  but they do not and Trae has to do more to even get back into the game.

If this is the narrative being presented then I can accept this but to think of young as this basketball God who deserves better than what his teammates have to offer is a hard pill to swallow for me especially since he has his own set of problems that he has to work through

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Same squad as last year

Did we play against this type of defense last year?

[Watchman]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Did we play against this type of defense last year?

More mugging than defense this year.