this will either be Trae's wake up call or the beginning of his demise

[JayBirdHawk]

34 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

And they will but it doesn't happen over night.  As bad as Huerter plays at times this season, I see improvement.  I see some offensive growth with Hunter here in the playoffs.  Even Bogi's game got better late in the season.  Some of the greats did not sniff the finals until 5 plus years in the league.  It took Jordan 7 years? Lebron 5? KD 5?  Be patient.  These guys will get better.

I forgot to add Isiah 5 or 6 years also

Trae too.

[JTB]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

This need to be pinned. There’s nothing else to say in this thread outside of this and if you can’t comprehend then that’s on you or you have an agenda against Trae Young and a few of you do!

I just want this young team to get better. All our young players have flaws and something they need to improve on including Trae but Trae is not to blame solely for these results. It really starts at the very top with schlenk, then the coaching, and last the players in my opinion.

[JayBirdHawk]

One last thing to add in this thread:

A young Lebron faced a Box and 1 defense vs the Spurs in the playoffs early in his career.....said he'd never seen it....did better next time around with better players around it.

You live, you learn, you become better next time.

Now Go Hawks and beat the heat!!!

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, Wretch said:

Also....until we have the right team tailored to him, complete with a 2nd alpha, Trae gets a total pass from me.  A whole stack of get out of jail free cards.  I'm not even ashamed to say it.  Except for the off-ball development, I give precisely zero actual sh!ts about the criticisms LOL

 

This type of logic is why people like me exist because we hold everyone accountable 

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This type of logic is why people like me exist because we hold everyone accountable 

Me too!

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

If you guys really believe this, I offer this bet.  

I bet I can find more posts criticizing Huerter than criticizing Hunter in the Game 4 thread.  If I win, I get control of your avatar(s) for two months of my choice over the next year.  If you win, you get to control my avatar for the next two years.

If you aren't just full of ****, you will take this bet because it is wildly lopsided in your favor by a 12:1 ratio.

Who actually believes in what they are posting?  I do.

@Peoriabird

@NBASupes

Let's find out who is telling the truth here and who isn't.

I said since game 1. Not just game 4.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Knock yourself out...You are just proving my point to @AHF

???  
 

Your point was the Hunter was brutally critiqued while there “wasn’t a peep” negative about anyone else.  That was always BS as has been shown repeatedly.  In the game thread, Huerter was the biggest whipping boy.  After the game, JC got the most criticism and Hunter was at best third in that category (I didn’t count everyone to see who all got more than 8 complaints in 11 pages of posts).

You and I can agree that Hunter gets criticism for his lack of rebounding, passing and dribbling skills and that some are disappointed in his scoring as well.  You and I personally agree that he can continue to improve but that some other posters don’t share that optimism.  We can agree that some posters want to move on from him just like some do with Bogi, JC, Cap, Huerter…every Hawk really even people saying we should move on from Trae as I showed earlier today.  But he didn’t get anything special in terms of criticism either in the harshness of the rhetoric or the volume of complaints in the Game 4 thread (even if limited to only the post-game section of it).

That is the truth. 

[AHF]

53 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I said since game 1. Not just game 4.

You said Peo was right when he was not making that argument.  He was specifically talking about the Game 4 thread and then moved that to the postgame portion of the thread.

I don’t know that Hunter has been beaten up more than others this series and I’ve already done one deep dive on this today.  I don’t care to spend any more time on it.

Beyond that, I would be much more interested in unfair criticism.  If someone criticizing him for not rebounding or passing and I see him sitting on 8 rebounds and 1 assist after 4 games is that unfair?  You have gone after him some for several areas of disappointment like his ballhanding struggles that limit his ability to attack off the dribble.  Am I to assume you agree your own criticisms are fair and balanced?  If so, then why should I be invested in deep diving on whether you have criticized other Hawks in a similar way.  Some posters bash Bogi.  Some bash Hunter.  Some bash Trae.  That is the nature of the beast.  
 

I’m just not seeing a big gap in how Hunter has been discussed during this series versus Huerter or OO or others.  All of our Hawks have been in line for some legit criticism and probably some over the top, ill founded criticism.  So it doesn’t really stand out to me.

But feel free to do that comparison and share with the board if you think this is a real thing.  I did that on the Game 4 thread and the post-game portion of the Game 4 thread and dispelled the notion that Hunter was getting raked over the coals while there “wasn’t a peep” about other players.

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Heeeey....stop copying my homework.

I thought we shared this? No? 

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

One last thing to add in this thread:

A young Lebron faced a Box and 1 defense vs the Spurs in the playoffs early in his career.....said he'd never seen it....did better next time around with better players around it.

You live, you learn, you become better next time.

Now Go Hawks and beat the heat!!!

This! Folks we are young, pun intended. We are fine. 

[RandomFan]

 

[Spud2nique]

37 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

 

They cut we don’t they move we don’t.

[Diesel]

So Now, Denzel being Disrespectful?!?

 

[AUhawksfan]

15 minutes ago, Diesel said:

So Now, Denzel being Disrespectful?!?

 

Daaaang he’s one of my favorite actors too….wtf Denzel?!

[Hawkmoor]

Trae Young is who he is. 

[Diesel]

19 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Trae Young is who he is. 

Aren't we all who we are?  I mean this is not Halloween.  Trae Young is not appearing as Kyrie Irving.    

Why not say..

Trae Young has been the focus of all of Miami's defensive efforts?

In one play, I have seen Trae guarded by Tucker, Bam, and Butler.   This happens most of the game though.  They throw body after Body at Trae all game long...

And we have yet to have a consistent scorer to step up and take some of the scoring burden off of Trae. 

Delon has been our most consistent player because he's willing to hustle. 

Why not say...

It looks like Trae is playing 1 on 5 out there?

Because that's what happens when our others don't step up. 

What exactly does he is who he is translate to you?  Is it some type of put down?

OK.. Trae Young Is the guy who led the league in Total Points and Total Assists this season.  Is that what you're going for?

How about...

Trae Young is the guy who led us to the ECFs last year.  Is that the who he is that you were talking about?

Please explain.

 

 

 

 

[Wretch]

14 hours ago, NBASupes said:

This type of logic is why people like me exist because we hold everyone accountable 

Holding him accountable is one thing, but using the proper perspective is better.  People can criticize him for his flaws/mistakes and we are all certainly entitled to our opinion - so Trae may not be the flavor for everyone.  However he is such a rarity, and an efficient one no less, that you need to set him aside when looking at the entirety of the team.  Here is where some of you are doing the typical Squawk thing...where you analyze things in a vacuum and are looking for that "one thing" that is either holding us back or going to take us to the next level.  There is no "one thing." 

There are many things that need to be corrected in order for us to move up into the next tier.  Trae is not one of those things.  He's not perfect, but he is not holding us back.  The blame you want to give him, where do you push the correction to?  Off-ball movement?  This has already been covered.  A whole system needs to be installed for that and we need players that compliment that system - primarily another alpha playmaker.  Move the ball and give Bogi, Hunter, and Huerter more WIDE OPEN looks? Give it to JC and let him go to work?  Or is it that we are too soft and are saying that it's just Trae Young, all by himself, that is allowing other teams to funnel points through our defense and that's why we're losing...?

The reality is that our team is flawed, and underpowered.  Almost exactly the way LeBron's 2010 Cavs were flawed and underpowered.  You don't blame LeBron, you put a better team around him or you watch him leave.

[marco102]

2 hours ago, Wretch said:

Holding him accountable is one thing, but using the proper perspective is even better.  People can criticize him for his flaws/mistakes and we are all certainly entitled to our opinion - so Trae may not be the flavor for everyone.  However he is such a rarity, and an efficient one no less, that you need to set him aside when looking at the entirety of the team.  Here is where some of you are doing the typical Squawk thing...where you analyze things in a vacuum and are looking for that "one thing" that is either holding us back or going to take us to the next level.  There is no "one thing." 

There are many things that need to be corrected in order for us to move up into the next tier.  Trae is not one of those things.  He's not perfect, but he is not holding us back.  The blame you want to give him, where do you push the correction to?  Off-ball movement?  This has already been covered.  A whole system needs to be installed for that and we need players that compliment that system - primarily another alpha playmaker.  Move the ball and give Bogi, Hunter, and Huerter more WIDE OPEN looks? Give it to JC and let him go to work?  Or is it that we are too soft and are saying that it's just Trae Young, all by himself, that is allowing other teams to funnel points through our defense and that's why we're losing...?

The reality is that our team is flawed, and underpowered.  Almost exactly the way LeBron's 2010 Cavs were flawed and underpowered.  You don't blame LeBron, you put a better team around him or you watch him leave.

This is very well said! 

[Hawkmoor]

 

https://mabsidam.com/2021/02/10/can-you-win-a-championship-with-trae-young-as-your-1/

Can You Win A Championship With Trae Young As Your #1

Trae Young An Inefficient Volume Scorer

Trae Young is a throw back volume shooter. Young shoots sub 45% from the field but plays with the belief that his teams best chance at winning is if he can find his rhythm and shoot them to victory, it’s reminiscent of AI in Philly in the early 2000’s. It must be noted however that this style of basketball is very wishy washy when it comes to team results. On one side is Kobe Bryant who led his team to back to back championships being a volume scorer while on the other side are good stats bad team guys like Bradley Beal or Young himself. It’s already worrying that Trae Young is one of the leading faces of the NBA’s current “dribble-dribble-dribble-shoot….” wave but it’s even more concerning when you realize Young is a small guard and this style of basketball is hardest on them as they don’t have the necessary body(well unless you’re AI) to carry the weight of an entire offense.

 

Accepting Trae Young for who he is as a scorer has to be the first correction the Atlanta Hawks make if they are to build an actual championship team around him. In the last 20 years they’ve only been 3 teams who won a championship where the team’s best player in the finals was an undoubtedly a guard;

 

2006 – Miami Heat = Dwyane Wade.

2009/2010 – Los Angeles Lakers = Kobe Bryant.

2015 – Golden State Warriors = Steph Curry.

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

 

https://mabsidam.com/2021/02/10/can-you-win-a-championship-with-trae-young-as-your-1/

Can You Win A Championship With Trae Young As Your #1

Trae Young An Inefficient Volume Scorer

Trae Young is a throw back volume shooter. Young shoots sub 45% from the field but plays with the belief that his teams best chance at winning is if he can find his rhythm and shoot them to victory, it’s reminiscent of AI in Philly in the early 2000’s. It must be noted however that this style of basketball is very wishy washy when it comes to team results. On one side is Kobe Bryant who led his team to back to back championships being a volume scorer while on the other side are good stats bad team guys like Bradley Beal or Young himself. It’s already worrying that Trae Young is one of the leading faces of the NBA’s current “dribble-dribble-dribble-shoot….” wave but it’s even more concerning when you realize Young is a small guard and this style of basketball is hardest on them as they don’t have the necessary body(well unless you’re AI) to carry the weight of an entire offense.

 

Accepting Trae Young for who he is as a scorer has to be the first correction the Atlanta Hawks make if they are to build an actual championship team around him. In the last 20 years they’ve only been 3 teams who won a championship where the team’s best player in the finals was an undoubtedly a guard;

 

2006 – Miami Heat = Dwyane Wade.

2009/2010 – Los Angeles Lakers = Kobe Bryant.

2015 – Golden State Warriors = Steph Curry.

Great article for showing a fundamentally flawed premise.

Allen Iverson Philly TS% .513%

Michael Jordan Chicago TS% .580% 

We see the difference between an efficient and an inefficient volume scorer, right?

Trae Young Career TS% .583% (.603% this season)

 

Sooo....

51.3%

58.0%

58.3%

 

Which of these things is not like the other?  Which of these things just doesn't belong?

[Packfill]

15 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

And they will but it doesn't happen over night.  As bad as Huerter plays at times this season, I see improvement.  I see some offensive growth with Hunter here in the playoffs.  Even Bogi's game got better late in the season.  Some of the greats did not sniff the finals until 5 plus years in the league.  It took Jordan 7 years? Lebron 5? KD 5?  Be patient.  These guys will get better.

I forgot to add Isiah 5 or 6 years also

The fact that each of Jordan (Pippen), Lebron (Kyrie/Wade/AD), Durant (Curry) needed another HOF caliber player to win a championship (and going back further - Shaq/Kope; Bird/McHale; Magic/Worthy; etc.) is not a screaming endorsement of the Hawks current roster if the goal is to win a championship.  Maybe you can squint and dream on Hunter becoming that guy, but no one else on the roster in my view has that type of potential.  Hope I am wrong on that of course.  

How or if the Hawks acquire that second guy will be Schlenk's legacy.