Official Game Thread: Bucks at Hawks

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I feel like having a continuous cycle of contributing young guys is key to sustained success.  If you don't have at least two bench guys on rookie scale deals that are contributing, it's very hard to field a "high value" lineup where talent is greater than the hit to our cap space.  So unless Ressler is willing to show he's emptying his pockets, we will always need contributing young guys who are valuable pieces on their rookie scale deals.  I believe it was @NBASupes(?) who stressed the value of the 15-25 pick range because of how cheap those rookie deals are and how much value you can find in that range.  Having good players isn't quite enough when you have to pay them market.

 

I wouldn't want to give away all our future picks for guys for this very reason.  But there is a reason that the Spurs didn't flip Boris Diaw for picks.  They just kept taking guys with their normal picks and developing them.

We should keep trying to get JC, Huerter, JJ, AJ, etc. types and develop them.  If a trade comes along that makes sense and gets us another pick then great but I don't feel like we need to get rid of vets to add more of them just so we make sure we flip our vets before they become UFA.  (We already have one such pick from dealing Huerter).  It is ok if some of our vets simply play out their contracts.

We have plenty of picks in the immediate future.  It is the 2026-28 years that we should be thinking about for the long-term future since we only have seconds in those seasons.

[JeffS17]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

I wouldn't want to give away all our future picks for guys for this very reason.  But there is a reason that the Spurs didn't flip Boris Diaw for picks.  They just kept taking guys with their normal picks and developing them.

We should keep trying to get JC, Huerter, JJ, AJ, etc. types and develop them.  If a trade comes along that makes sense and gets us another pick then great but I don't feel like we need to get rid of vets to add more of them just so we make sure we flip our vets before they become UFA.  (We already have one such pick from dealing Huerter).  It is ok if some of our vets simply play out their contracts.

We have plenty of picks in the immediate future.  It is the 2026-28 years that we should be thinking about for the long-term future since we only have seconds in those seasons.

Definitely.  But right now if you look at the 24-25 season, Hunters contract will have kicked in, Murray will be up for a very likely max signing, and Trae+Collins+Capela = $90M.  It's also time to pay OO that year.  We will have no space at all which means we either need cheap rooks or Ressler has to pony up.  It's just prudent to consider options before that time comes (guys have more value if they're under contract for 2+ years).  Not really commenting whether or not we should trade now, but getting picks for guys that will be in their 1st or 2nd year when that season rolls around could prove to be very valuable.  Or Ressler just opens his wallet and we don't have to debate the point lol

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

said he's always been a smart player.

Indeed. Wow the Bucks broadcasters seem legit, what happened to the old dudes, Jim Paschke and McGlock? Wait, one of those dudes retired I think. 
 

Ya, even the old broadcasters in Milwaukee seemed educated and fair. McGlock always brought up playing with Kareem back in the day.

I can see us and the Raps being the teams that play them tough, we know the Sixers are weak lol. Giannis direct shot at Embiid.

 

[swanlee]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

Because the draft is how you get good young players, like AJ Griffin. You always have to keep an eye on the future. 

Yea but we already have a backlog, lets maybe let them develop before we go trading solid depth for crap shoots

[AHF]

13 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Definitely.  But right now if you look at the 24-25 season, Hunters contract will have kicked in, Murray will be up for a very likely max signing, and Trae+Collins+Capela = $90M.  It's also time to pay OO that year.  We will have no space at all which means we either need cheap rooks or Ressler has to pony up.  It's just prudent to consider options before that time comes (guys have more value if they're under contract for 2+ years).  Not really commenting whether or not we should trade now, but getting picks for guys that will be in their 1st or 2nd year when that season rolls around could prove to be very valuable.  Or Ressler just opens his wallet and we don't have to debate the point lol

Over the next two offseasons we have 3 first round picks and 5 second round picks so I'm not really seeing a problem for the 2024-25 season as far as cheap, young talent to develop and I'm sure we'd want one or two cheap vets as well ala Aaron Holiday.

That would be 8 players in their first or second season on the 2024-25 roster if we kept them all.  I'd say we actually need to trade some of those away (directly or indirectly) for first round picks in the 2025-27 drafts.  

[JayBirdHawk]

28 minutes ago, AHF said:

It is the 2026-28 years

Correction

Outgoing picks to SAS:

2025 1st round pick owed (unprotected)

2026 1st round pick swap

2027 1st round pick owed (unprotected)

 

Incoming:

2024 1st round pick from Sac (protected 1-14, 1-12, 1-10 for 3 consecutive years)

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

[JeffS17]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

Over the next two offseasons we have 3 first round picks and 5 second round picks so I'm not really seeing a problem for the 2024-25 season as far as cheap, young talent to develop and I'm sure we'd want one or two cheap vets as well ala Aaron Holiday.

That would be 8 players in their first or second season on the 2024-25 roster if we kept them all.  I'd say we actually need to trade some of those away (directly or indirectly) for first round picks in the 2025-27 drafts.  

Hope you're right, I just wouldn't bank on every first round pick panning out, and I can't remember the last time we had a second rounder contribute meaningful minutes.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Hope you're right, I just wouldn't bank on every first round pick panning out, and I can't remember the last time we had a second rounder contribute meaningful minutes.

You also aren't quantifying the amount of the increase in the salary cap. It is believed that it may be a smoothed increase but the players and owners have to agree on that.

You don't need all of them to pan out. If you have 8 draft picks. 

If the guys on the current roster pan out, you have 8 above average rotation players.

[JeffS17]

8 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

Especially when we get Bogi back, I would like to see Hunter dish out to the wing more often on this play when guards pick for the steal (like Jrue here).  He turns it over a decent amount driving into traffic like this, so he's gotta learn to punish those defensive gambles

[macdaddy]

11 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Hope you're right, I just wouldn't bank on every first round pick panning out, and I can't remember the last time we had a second rounder contribute meaningful minutes.

Paul Milsap.  

[JeffS17]

6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

You also aren't quantifying the amount of the increase in the salary cap. It is believed that it may be a smoothed increase but the players and owners have to agree on that.

You don't need all of them to pan out. If you have 8 draft picks. 

If the guys on the current roster pan out, you have 8 above average rotation players.

I did but didn't want a bunch of numbers to detract from the conceptual point.  Very roughly for that year:

Trae $43M

Capela $22M

Collins $27M

Hunter $22M

Murray $43M

This gets you to $157M with a projected luxury threshold of $172M.  OO is going to command more than $15M per year himself, particularly with this increase in the cap, so just with OOs extension you're in the tax and you need  to fill out the bench.  So thinking ahead it can make sense to trade a players for picks now if you find a good deal.  That's all I was saying.

Trust me, I will be more than ecstatic than anyone if we retain all of these guys and Ressler just goes into the tax to retain talent.

[RandomFan]

 

 

[JeffS17]

6 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Paul Milsap.  

yeah, so it's been 16 years lol... exactly why im not counting on second rounders to pan out.  

[marco102]

6 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I did but didn't want a bunch of numbers to detract from the conceptual point.  Very roughly for that year:

Trae $43M

Capela $22M

Collins $27M

Hunter $22M

Murray $43M

This gets you to $157M with a projected luxury threshold of $172M.  OO is going to command more than $15M per year himself, particularly with this increase in the cap, so just with OOs extension you're in the tax and you need  to fill out the bench.  So thinking ahead it can make sense to trade a players for picks now if you find a good deal.  That's all I was saying.

Trust me, I will be more than ecstatic than anyone if we retain all of these guys and Ressler just goes into the tax to retain talent.

The reason Ressler didn't want to go into the tax this year is just good business.

Golden State and the Clippers have historic tax bills and he wanted to be a part of that cashflow at the end of the year and that will probably help out the Hawks in the long run too as far as cashflows. 

Just saying, I'm currently happy with progress on the current roster.  Worrying and stressing about a potential rookie or contract issues 3 seasons down the road is a moot point.  Too many variables to put energy into that.

Edit:  This isn't me saying your concerns aren't valid they are.  Just saying I wouldn't have that on my radar this far out.

Edited November 8, 2022 by marco102

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Especially when we get Bogi back, I would like to see Hunter dish out to the wing more often on this play when guards pick for the steal (like Jrue here).  He turns it over a decent amount driving into traffic like this, so he's gotta learn to punish those defensive gambles

Hunter is not a passer, unfortunately.  He gets the ball he's looking to score - head down going to the basket, so his spacial awareness is not good in terms of defenders around him. 

He doesn't use his height and body to dive into people...he plays low, check the last clip (part of that is lack of confidence in his dribble), then he doesn't explode up. 

Look at the difference with how AJ comes off the screen vs how Hunter does:

 

 

[kg01]

Shout out to @marco102 who, like me and squd, were allllll in on AJ Griffin this draft. 

Now, if you'll excuse us, we all gotta go ice our shoulders.   Pattin' yourself on the back is tough sleddin'

(Happy, marqo?)

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Shout out to @marco102 who, like me and squd, were allllll in on AJ Griffin this draft. 

Now, if you'll excuse us, we all gotta go ice our shoulders.   Pattin' yourself on the back is tough sleddin'

(Happy, marqo?)

It'll do little bird. 

 

That's a game of thrones reference, not sure if you watch.

Edited November 8, 2022 by marco102

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

The reason Ressler didn't want to go into the tax this year is just good business.

Golden State and the Clippers have historic tax bills and he wanted to be a part of that cashflow at the end of the year and that will probably help out the Hawks in the long run too as far as cashflows. 

Just saying, I'm currently happy with progress on the current roster.  Worrying and stressing about a potential rookie or contract issues 3 seasons down the road is a moot point.  Too many variables to put energy into that.

Development is not always linear.  Some players develop at an even pace yearly, some make a leap, and some are who they are and some struggle.

2 years ago Cam was supposed to be the player to get the 2nd Designated rookie extension.  Cam is no longer here.  Things change quickly.