Official Game Thread: Hawks at Wizards (1 of 2)

[JayBirdHawk]

13 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I need Hunter to give me some defense on Beal.

 

13 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Hunter got a block on Beal

HUNTER GOT A BLOCK ON BEAL!!

 

13 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

OMG....Hunter with a timely block.  

https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2023/03/08/0022200985/587/78557bce-38e8-386b-766d-4380e5f4bca2_1280x720.mp4

Need this more from Hunter.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

Growing Pains!

 

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[terrell]

5 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

No no, it’s still fun. 

It wasnt when they went on that 11-0 run after we went up 6.. Yall need to stop running around looking for Gotcha moments and follow the game thread. You and your boy Diesel.. smh

Btw, I thought you blocked me?

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by terrell

[terrell]

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

Yeah.. AJ hit the rookie wall.   Cool.. but JJ was herendous to start the season and Nate played him anyway.   JJ got better.    It's hypocritical to say that Nate didn't play JJ (when he did) and make no mention of Quin not playing AJ.   We all understand why Quin is not playing AJ.. hell we make excuses for it..  but if JJ misses one game under Nate... Oh... Nate is the worst non-developing coach in the world. 

I put up the table so all of yall can face the facts... and this is not a Nate vs. Quin thing.. I love Quin.. It's about hypocrisy.. so address that.

 

JJ was what?

[AHF]

11 hours ago, Diesel said:

It's the exact same.   AJ has not seen the floor, except in garbage time, under Quin.

But let's talk about this cap..

Split	Value	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	3P	3PA	FT	FTA	ORB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS		FG%	3P%	FT%		TS%	USG%	ORtg	DRtg	+/-		MP	PTS	TRB	AST
All-Star	Pre	55	6	790	112	235	23	81	40	61	41	213	50	25	24	27	78	287		.477	.284	.656		.548	15.4	111	113			14.4	5.2	3.9	0.9
	Post	6	0	93	14	24	3	5	1	1	4	25	10	3	2	3	13	32		.583	.600	1.000		.655	12.8	132	117			15.5	5.3	4.2	1.7

 

Jalen Johnson.

This year, he played in 61 games.   He has 883 mins.  He averages 14.5 mpg.  That didn't happen in Quin's 4 games with us.   That means that Jalen played under Nate?!?  Nate played Jalen.   For all of you who say that Nate didn't play Jalen... 

Jalen has 883 minutes of play.  14.5 minute per game.  This when Nate was HC most of the season.

So under Nate.. Jalen played in 55 games and avered 14.4 mpg.   Under Quin, he has played in 6 games and averaged 15.3 mpg.   And Not was "not playing Jalen"....

Yall rehash the same old arguments that are not true.. today.

 

 

 

Here is my issue.  Nate cut JJ's minutes right when JJ's play improved.  

He has played by far his best ball of the year in January and February.  His per36 numbers jumped to almost 15 points, 15 rebounds, and a TS% of ~.600% but Nate cut his minutes from 20 mpg in December to 10 and 13 mpg in January and February and DNP'd him 3 times.  

This was during the same time period when JC and some of our other forwards were struggling and JJ was playing his best ball but Nate still decided to marginalize his minutes all the same.

[Spud2nique]

10 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

oooohhh....I was about to pull the receipts

  Hide contents

 

No Burd not on me. I always tell the truth, even when I lie.  Miss u guys just got off a hectic Thursday at work. All I wanna do is chill n squawk.

 

Ya, so as y’all know I wanted Crowder and was willing to include JJ.

Ps Kg called it though if I was agenda driven I would whine about AJ, yet I’m praising JJ.  Hawks> your lil b!tcha$$ agendas…and you is the plural not you obviously.

[Spud2nique]

11 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

ps COMON SADDIQ GET THIS ONE FOR MAMA!!!!  

@JayBirdHawki pictured somewhere you were bustin up  it’s the way Bob said it.  I rewound the thing like 5 times  

[Spud2nique]

10 hours ago, kg01 said:

dictate

How’d mines Tate?   I kid I kid.

Yes, if we had a style we would be one of them dictators instead we had been the peasants. I look forward to dictating for many years, at least dictating the southeast division.

[thecampster]

5 hours ago, AHF said:

Here is my issue.  Nate cut JJ's minutes right when JJ's play improved.  

He has played by far his best ball of the year in January and February.  His per36 numbers jumped to almost 15 points, 15 rebounds, and a TS% of ~.600% but Nate cut his minutes from 20 mpg in December to 10 and 13 mpg in January and February and DNP'd him 3 times.  

This was during the same time period when JC and some of our other forwards were struggling and JJ was playing his best ball but Nate still decided to marginalize his minutes all the same.

JJ and team since the all-star break. First set broken down by +/- best to worst.  2nd chart, extract based on per/36.

 

PLAYERS	GP	MIN	FG%	3P%	REB	AST	TOV	STL	BLK	+/-
Onyeka Okongwu	7	147	60.5	50	38	8	10	6	7	60
Bogdan Bogdanovic	7	168	55.4	55.9	21	18	10	7	3	51
Jalen Johnson	6	93	58	60	25	10	3	3	2	46
Saddiq Bey	7	199	49.2	46.2	29	9	4	6	0	33
Trae Young	7	228	46.1	37.8	24	62	27	14	1	30
Dejounte Murray	7	248	50.4	35	32	40	13	10	0	11
AJ Griffin	4	49	33.3	12.5	5	5	1	1	0	10
Aaron Holiday	2	4	50	0	0	0	1	0	0	-6
Bruno Fernando	1	2	0	0	1	1	1	0	0	-6
Garrison Mathews	1	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	-6
Vit Krejci	1	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	-6
John Collins	6	141	57.1	36.8	18	2	8	1	2	-25
Clint Capela	7	185	70.6	0	69	10	5	5	10	-31
De'Andre Hunter	7	212	50.7	39.1	21	10	9	3	3	-31
Per36	GP	MIN	FG%	3P%	REB	AST	TOV	STL	BLK	+/-
Jalen Johnson	6	93	58.0	60.0	9.7	3.9	1.2	1.2	0.8	17.8
John Collins	6	141	57.1	36.8	4.6	0.5	2.0	0.3	0.5	-6.4
Clint Capela	7	185.00	70.6	0.0	13.4	1.9	1.0	1.0	1.9	-6.0
De'Andre Hunter	7	212	50.7	39.1	3.6	1.7	1.5	0.5	0.5	-5.3

 

So in 119 less minutes, JJ managed to grab 4 more rebounds than Hunter.  In 48 less minutes he grabbed 7 more rebounds than JC.

Per 36, .8 less turnovers, .9 more steals, .3 more blocks, 5.1 more rebounds than Collins.  The DH comparison is just as bad.  A Per36 average the less 7 games of 24.2 points better +/- than JC, 32.1 points better than DH. He's been your most impactful player on the floor the last 7 games.

 

Its true he started out the season ruff, but he was also told not to handle the ball and to stand in the corner and wait to shoot 3s it was literally the only thing he was asked to do and he started out the year shooting poorly but he was also on the floor on the regular with the Holiday brothers.  So draw your own conclusions.

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, AHF said:

Nate cut JJ's minutes right when JJ's play improved.  

I don't think you have a "Consistent" Cutting of minutes... as you claim. 

3	21	2022-12-02	20-349	ATL		DEN	W (+8)	1	32:40	5	9	.556	0	1	.000	0	0		1	9	10	4	0	1	0	1	10	12.2	0
24	22	2022-12-05	20-352	ATL		OKC	L (-7)	1	29:29	3	8	.375	1	3	.333	0	0		3	6	9	3	0	0	1	4	7	6.0	+2
25	23	2022-12-07	20-354	ATL	@	NYK	L (-24)	1	13:41	2	2	1.000	1	1	1.000	1	1	1.000	0	3	3	1	0	0	0	6	6	4.6	-12
26	24	2022-12-09	20-356	ATL	@	BRK	L (-4)	1	32:45	1	8	.125	0	5	.000	0	0		1	6	7	2	0	1	1	4	2	-1.2	-8
27	25	2022-12-11	20-358	ATL		CHI	W (+1)	0	15:27	0	2	.000	0	0		1	2	.500	0	4	4	1	0	0	0	3	1	-0.1	-8
28	26	2022-12-12	20-359	ATL	@	MEM	L (-25)	1	28:48	4	9	.444	2	5	.400	4	5	.800	3	6	9	3	1	0	4	1	14	11.5	-24
29	27	2022-12-14	20-361	ATL	@	ORL	L (-11)	1	18:47	4	9	.444	1	5	.200	0	0		0	0	0	1	0	4	1	2	9	6.0	-3
30	28	2022-12-16	20-363	ATL	@	CHO	W (+19)	0	21:04	2	5	.400	0	0		0	0		2	3	5	0	0	2	0	1	4	4.6	+9
31	29	2022-12-19	21-001	ATL		ORL	W (+1)	0	12:26	0	2	.000	0	0		0	0		0	3	3	2	0	1	0	2	0	0.8	+1
32	30	2022-12-21	21-003	ATL		CHI	L (-2)	0	4:03	0	1	.000	0	1	.000	0	0		0	1	1	0	0	0	1	0	0	-1.4	-9
33	31	2022-12-23	21-005	ATL		DET	W (+25)	0	2:37	1	2	.500	0	1	.000	0	0		0	1	1	0	0	0	0	0	2	1.3	0
34	32	2022-12-27	21-009	ATL	@	IND	L (-15)	0	21:28	1	3	.333	0	1	.000	6	8	.750	1	7	8	5	1	0	0	3	8	11.6	+2
35	33	2022-12-28	21-010	ATL		BRK	L (-1)	0	25:10	6	12	.500	1	3	.333	1	1	1.000	1	5	6	0	0	1	1	2	14	9.1	-10
36	34	2022-12-30	21-012	ATL		LAL	L (-9)	0	24:18	5	9	.556	1	4	.250	4	6	.667	4	3	7	0	2	1	0	0	15	16.3	-11
37	35	2023-01-02	21-015	ATL	@	GSW	L (-2)	0	0:27	0	0		0	0		0	0		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.0	0
38	36	2023-01-04	21-017	ATL	@	SAC	W (+3)	0	4:21	1	1	1.000	0	0		0	0		1	0	1	1	0	0	0	1	2	2.7	+3
39	37	2023-01-06	21-019	ATL	@	LAL	L (-16)	0	5:24	1	2	.500	1	2	.500	0	0		0	3	3	1	0	0	0	1	3	3.2	+1
40	38	2023-01-08	21-021	ATL	@	LAC	W (+4)	0	15:20	5	6	.833	2	3	.667	1	2	.500	0	4	4	0	2	1	1	1	13	12.9	-1
Rk	G	Date	Age	Tm		Opp		GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	GmSc	+/-
41	39	2023-01-11	21-024	ATL		MIL	L (-9)	0	14:43	3	5	.600	1	2	.500	5	5	1.000	0	3	3	1	0	0	0	1	12	10.9	+3
42	40	2023-01-13	21-026	ATL	@	IND	W (+2)	0	14:12	3	3	1.000	1	1	1.000	0	2	.000	1	4	5	1	1	1	2	2	7	6.8	-9
43	41	2023-01-14	21-027	ATL	@	TOR	W (+11)	0	18:37	3	6	.500	1	2	.500	2	2	1.000	0	2	2	2	0	1	0	2	9	7.9	-4
44		2023-01-16	21-029	ATL		MIA	W (+8)	Did Not Play
45	42	2023-01-18	21-031	ATL	@	DAL	W (+8)	0	5:32	1	1	1.000	1	1	1.000	0	0		0	1	1	1	1	0	0	0	3	4.7	+2
46	43	2023-01-20	21-033	ATL		NYK	W (+15)	0	5:25	1	1	1.000	1	1	1.000	0	0		1	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	3	3.4	-7
47	44	2023-01-21	21-034	ATL		CHO	L (-4)	0	8:33	0	3	.000	0	1	.000	0	0		2	3	5	1	0	0	0	1	0	0.5	+3
48	45	2023-01-23	21-036	ATL	@	CHI	L (-11)	0	15:03	1	4	.250	0	1	.000	1	4	.250	1	5	6	0	0	0	0	3	3	0.4	-13
49	46	2023-01-25	21-038	ATL	@	OKC	W (+5)	0	17:12	2	3	.667	0	0		2	2	1.000	0	8	8	0	0	1	0	1	6	7.4	+13
50	47	2023-01-28	21-041	ATL		LAC	L (-7)	0	7:27	1	2	.500	0	1	.000	0	0		0	1	1	0	0	0	1	0	2	0.3	+1
51		2023-01-30	21-043	ATL	@	POR	L (-4)	Did Not Play
52	48	2023-02-01	21-045	ATL	@	PHO	W (+32)	0	16:30	2	4	.500	2	3	.667	0	0		0	11	11	1	0	0	1	1	6	6.6	+20
53	49	2023-02-03	21-047	ATL	@	UTA	W (+7)	0	17:20	1	4	.250	0	1	.000	0	2	.000	2	3	5	1	1	1	0	2	2	2.7	+6
54	50	2023-02-04	21-048	ATL	@	DEN	L (-20)	0	16:06	5	8	.625	0	1	.000	1	1	1.000	0	5	5	0	1	0	0	1	11	9.5	0
55	51	2023-02-07	21-051	ATL	@	NOP	L (-9)	0	14:53	3	7	.429	0	1	.000	0	0		1	5	6	1	0	0	1	1	6	3.8	+9
56	52	2023-02-09	21-053	ATL		PHO	W (+9)	0	11:55	3	6	.500	0	0		0	1	.000	4	4	8	1	0	1	1	1	6	6.6	+6
57	53	2023-02-11	21-055	ATL		SAS	W (+19)	0	15:09	2	4	.500	0	1	.000	1	2	.500	3	3	6	1	1	0	1	0	5	6.3	-2
58	54	2023-02-13	21-057	ATL	@	CHO	L (-6)	0	13:23	4	7	.571	1	2	.500	0	0		0	1	1	0	0	0	1	1	9	4.6	-15
59	55	2023-02-15	21-059	ATL		NYK	L (-21)	0	3:43	0	1	.000	0	1	.000	0	0		0	1	1	1	0	1	0	0	0	1.0	+

 

In December, Nate played Jalen more than anybody has ever played him... Started him for 6 games.. played him 20 mpg.   His mpg dropped down to what they are now in January.   In fact, Quin's Jalen's numbers are a mirror to Nate's Jalen's numbers from January.  There are three low mpg in January followed by back to better than his average mpg. 

So basically what you're saying is on a GAME by GAME basis.. you didn't like how Jalen's minutes looked...  When every coach will vary players minutes GAME by GAME depending on Situation.. I see.

 

[Spud2nique]

Us now….again.. ( 16th time this season )

 

 

coincidentally… 16 games left in the regular season.

 

Eerie? Perhaps? 
 

I say we go 12-4 to get to 45 wins. I want that 6th seed badly. 4 games away from that with the Heat 1.5 up on us sandwiched in between at 7.

 

 

 

 

[AHF]

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

I don't think you have a "Consistent" Cutting of minutes... as you claim. 

3	21	2022-12-02	20-349	ATL		DEN	W (+8)	1	32:40	5	9	.556	0	1	.000	0	0		1	9	10	4	0	1	0	1	10	12.2	0
24	22	2022-12-05	20-352	ATL		OKC	L (-7)	1	29:29	3	8	.375	1	3	.333	0	0		3	6	9	3	0	0	1	4	7	6.0	+2
25	23	2022-12-07	20-354	ATL	@	NYK	L (-24)	1	13:41	2	2	1.000	1	1	1.000	1	1	1.000	0	3	3	1	0	0	0	6	6	4.6	-12
26	24	2022-12-09	20-356	ATL	@	BRK	L (-4)	1	32:45	1	8	.125	0	5	.000	0	0		1	6	7	2	0	1	1	4	2	-1.2	-8
27	25	2022-12-11	20-358	ATL		CHI	W (+1)	0	15:27	0	2	.000	0	0		1	2	.500	0	4	4	1	0	0	0	3	1	-0.1	-8
28	26	2022-12-12	20-359	ATL	@	MEM	L (-25)	1	28:48	4	9	.444	2	5	.400	4	5	.800	3	6	9	3	1	0	4	1	14	11.5	-24
29	27	2022-12-14	20-361	ATL	@	ORL	L (-11)	1	18:47	4	9	.444	1	5	.200	0	0		0	0	0	1	0	4	1	2	9	6.0	-3
30	28	2022-12-16	20-363	ATL	@	CHO	W (+19)	0	21:04	2	5	.400	0	0		0	0		2	3	5	0	0	2	0	1	4	4.6	+9
31	29	2022-12-19	21-001	ATL		ORL	W (+1)	0	12:26	0	2	.000	0	0		0	0		0	3	3	2	0	1	0	2	0	0.8	+1
32	30	2022-12-21	21-003	ATL		CHI	L (-2)	0	4:03	0	1	.000	0	1	.000	0	0		0	1	1	0	0	0	1	0	0	-1.4	-9
33	31	2022-12-23	21-005	ATL		DET	W (+25)	0	2:37	1	2	.500	0	1	.000	0	0		0	1	1	0	0	0	0	0	2	1.3	0
34	32	2022-12-27	21-009	ATL	@	IND	L (-15)	0	21:28	1	3	.333	0	1	.000	6	8	.750	1	7	8	5	1	0	0	3	8	11.6	+2
35	33	2022-12-28	21-010	ATL		BRK	L (-1)	0	25:10	6	12	.500	1	3	.333	1	1	1.000	1	5	6	0	0	1	1	2	14	9.1	-10
36	34	2022-12-30	21-012	ATL		LAL	L (-9)	0	24:18	5	9	.556	1	4	.250	4	6	.667	4	3	7	0	2	1	0	0	15	16.3	-11
37	35	2023-01-02	21-015	ATL	@	GSW	L (-2)	0	0:27	0	0		0	0		0	0		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.0	0
38	36	2023-01-04	21-017	ATL	@	SAC	W (+3)	0	4:21	1	1	1.000	0	0		0	0		1	0	1	1	0	0	0	1	2	2.7	+3
39	37	2023-01-06	21-019	ATL	@	LAL	L (-16)	0	5:24	1	2	.500	1	2	.500	0	0		0	3	3	1	0	0	0	1	3	3.2	+1
40	38	2023-01-08	21-021	ATL	@	LAC	W (+4)	0	15:20	5	6	.833	2	3	.667	1	2	.500	0	4	4	0	2	1	1	1	13	12.9	-1
Rk	G	Date	Age	Tm		Opp		GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	GmSc	+/-
41	39	2023-01-11	21-024	ATL		MIL	L (-9)	0	14:43	3	5	.600	1	2	.500	5	5	1.000	0	3	3	1	0	0	0	1	12	10.9	+3
42	40	2023-01-13	21-026	ATL	@	IND	W (+2)	0	14:12	3	3	1.000	1	1	1.000	0	2	.000	1	4	5	1	1	1	2	2	7	6.8	-9
43	41	2023-01-14	21-027	ATL	@	TOR	W (+11)	0	18:37	3	6	.500	1	2	.500	2	2	1.000	0	2	2	2	0	1	0	2	9	7.9	-4
44		2023-01-16	21-029	ATL		MIA	W (+8)	Did Not Play
45	42	2023-01-18	21-031	ATL	@	DAL	W (+8)	0	5:32	1	1	1.000	1	1	1.000	0	0		0	1	1	1	1	0	0	0	3	4.7	+2
46	43	2023-01-20	21-033	ATL		NYK	W (+15)	0	5:25	1	1	1.000	1	1	1.000	0	0		1	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	3	3.4	-7
47	44	2023-01-21	21-034	ATL		CHO	L (-4)	0	8:33	0	3	.000	0	1	.000	0	0		2	3	5	1	0	0	0	1	0	0.5	+3
48	45	2023-01-23	21-036	ATL	@	CHI	L (-11)	0	15:03	1	4	.250	0	1	.000	1	4	.250	1	5	6	0	0	0	0	3	3	0.4	-13
49	46	2023-01-25	21-038	ATL	@	OKC	W (+5)	0	17:12	2	3	.667	0	0		2	2	1.000	0	8	8	0	0	1	0	1	6	7.4	+13
50	47	2023-01-28	21-041	ATL		LAC	L (-7)	0	7:27	1	2	.500	0	1	.000	0	0		0	1	1	0	0	0	1	0	2	0.3	+1
51		2023-01-30	21-043	ATL	@	POR	L (-4)	Did Not Play
52	48	2023-02-01	21-045	ATL	@	PHO	W (+32)	0	16:30	2	4	.500	2	3	.667	0	0		0	11	11	1	0	0	1	1	6	6.6	+20
53	49	2023-02-03	21-047	ATL	@	UTA	W (+7)	0	17:20	1	4	.250	0	1	.000	0	2	.000	2	3	5	1	1	1	0	2	2	2.7	+6
54	50	2023-02-04	21-048	ATL	@	DEN	L (-20)	0	16:06	5	8	.625	0	1	.000	1	1	1.000	0	5	5	0	1	0	0	1	11	9.5	0
55	51	2023-02-07	21-051	ATL	@	NOP	L (-9)	0	14:53	3	7	.429	0	1	.000	0	0		1	5	6	1	0	0	1	1	6	3.8	+9
56	52	2023-02-09	21-053	ATL		PHO	W (+9)	0	11:55	3	6	.500	0	0		0	1	.000	4	4	8	1	0	1	1	1	6	6.6	+6
57	53	2023-02-11	21-055	ATL		SAS	W (+19)	0	15:09	2	4	.500	0	1	.000	1	2	.500	3	3	6	1	1	0	1	0	5	6.3	-2
58	54	2023-02-13	21-057	ATL	@	CHO	L (-6)	0	13:23	4	7	.571	1	2	.500	0	0		0	1	1	0	0	0	1	1	9	4.6	-15
59	55	2023-02-15	21-059	ATL		NYK	L (-21)	0	3:43	0	1	.000	0	1	.000	0	0		0	1	1	1	0	1	0	0	0	1.0	+

 

In December, Nate played Jalen more than anybody has ever played him... Started him for 6 games.. played him 20 mpg.   His mpg dropped down to what they are now in January.   In fact, Quin's Jalen's numbers are a mirror to Nate's Jalen's numbers from January.  There are three low mpg in January followed by back to better than his average mpg. 

So basically what you're saying is on a GAME by GAME basis.. you didn't like how Jalen's minutes looked...  When every coach will vary players minutes GAME by GAME depending on Situation.. I see.

 

Nate played JJ less than 10 mpg in January when you count the DNP.  JJ was awesome in those minutes.  Others were struggling that is a problem.

campster also correctly describes how Nate was misusing JJ (akin to asking Jeff Teague to be a spot up 3pt shooter and wondering why he isn’t great).

[NBASupes]

7 hours ago, thecampster said:

JJ and team since the all-star break. First set broken down by +/- best to worst.  2nd chart, extract based on per/36.

 

PLAYERS	GP	MIN	FG%	3P%	REB	AST	TOV	STL	BLK	+/-
Onyeka Okongwu	7	147	60.5	50	38	8	10	6	7	60
Bogdan Bogdanovic	7	168	55.4	55.9	21	18	10	7	3	51
Jalen Johnson	6	93	58	60	25	10	3	3	2	46
Saddiq Bey	7	199	49.2	46.2	29	9	4	6	0	33
Trae Young	7	228	46.1	37.8	24	62	27	14	1	30
Dejounte Murray	7	248	50.4	35	32	40	13	10	0	11
AJ Griffin	4	49	33.3	12.5	5	5	1	1	0	10
Aaron Holiday	2	4	50	0	0	0	1	0	0	-6
Bruno Fernando	1	2	0	0	1	1	1	0	0	-6
Garrison Mathews	1	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	-6
Vit Krejci	1	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	-6
John Collins	6	141	57.1	36.8	18	2	8	1	2	-25
Clint Capela	7	185	70.6	0	69	10	5	5	10	-31
De'Andre Hunter	7	212	50.7	39.1	21	10	9	3	3	-31
Per36	GP	MIN	FG%	3P%	REB	AST	TOV	STL	BLK	+/-
Jalen Johnson	6	93	58.0	60.0	9.7	3.9	1.2	1.2	0.8	17.8
John Collins	6	141	57.1	36.8	4.6	0.5	2.0	0.3	0.5	-6.4
Clint Capela	7	185.00	70.6	0.0	13.4	1.9	1.0	1.0	1.9	-6.0
De'Andre Hunter	7	212	50.7	39.1	3.6	1.7	1.5	0.5	0.5	-5.3

 

So in 119 less minutes, JJ managed to grab 4 more rebounds than Hunter.  In 48 less minutes he grabbed 7 more rebounds than JC.

Per 36, .8 less turnovers, .9 more steals, .3 more blocks, 5.1 more rebounds than Collins.  The DH comparison is just as bad.  A Per36 average the less 7 games of 24.2 points better +/- than JC, 32.1 points better than DH. He's been your most impactful player on the floor the last 7 games.

 

Its true he started out the season ruff, but he was also told not to handle the ball and to stand in the corner and wait to shoot 3s it was literally the only thing he was asked to do and he started out the year shooting poorly but he was also on the floor on the regular with the Holiday brothers.  So draw your own conclusions.

In all fairness, we have played a lot more top heavy teams which have benefitted our backups and hurt our starters. This is why I never liked the whole, look at the +/- of our starting 5. We had a weak pre ASB schedule. Now our schedule is much more difficult. We are playing better with Quin but we are playing better teams.

[Spud2nique]

Wait, I gotta play the Wiz again on 2K? Ughhhh these back 2 backs! At least we get the black jerseys rollin for tonight!

@kg01Wiz got the GIL BOUGHT ARENAS and his baby boy Antonio Daniels aka Kam’s boi mid 2000’s on tonight. 

[thecampster]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

Nate played JJ less than 10 mpg in January when you count the DNP.  JJ was awesome in those minutes.  Others were struggling that is a problem.

campster also correctly describes how Nate was misusing JJ (akin to asking Jeff Teague to be a spot up 3pt shooter and wondering why he isn’t great).

Its a terrible analogy but I see this all the time in dog training.  People asking a hunting dog to be an inside dog or try to take an English Bulldog on runs.  You have a long, athletic, creating big man.  Quit telling him to stand 22 feet from the basket in the corner.  Draw something up that gets him moving toward the basket. Let him push in transition. Ask him to guard the other team's best wing and assist on dump ins to the post.

 

IMHO, JC's being used pretty poorly too and its part of his slide.  JC is a classic, back to the basic, lob threat, in and out big. He is not and never has been a creator. He's an inside out spacer and draw in the post. Every time you put him on the same side of the floor with Clint, the only thing he can do is float to the corner and hope for a 3.  See below.

 

 

One of the reasons JJ + OO works better right now is OO can shoot outside 5 feet and OO is better at guarding mobile players.

Watch any old game from earlier in the year and see how often 1 or both of DH/JC are on the bad spots for JC side effectively removing them from the rebounding action.  Still happens far too often but was awful at one point in the year.

 

They do this to give Clint/Trae options in running the pick n roll from the top. But a miss by Trae equals your two biggest players out of the rebound action on the weak side and 3 of your players completely out of the action on a run out/transition. There is no one on the weak side if the shot is long, to stop ball on a run out. This is part of what Snyder was saying about how our offense affects our defense.

 

one of the things Boston and Miami do to us (besides employing mafia tactics) is to ignore the corners on the drive and dive in early because they know once Trae commits to lob/floater game, the corners are useless and out of the rebound action. Miami abandons, closes early to stop penetration, daring Trae to kick to the corners. A kick to the corner often gets the ball out of a play makers hand and without a deadeye shooter on the floor (can't rely on Bogi), they've stopped ball motion and options in quick gamble.

Correct this by insisting JC/Hunter end up on the right side of the floor to allow for a good slasher/put back rebounder.

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Its a terrible analogy but I see this all the time in dog training.  People asking a hunting dog to be an inside dog or try to take an English Bulldog on runs.  You have a long, athletic, creating big man.  Quit telling him to stand 22 feet from the basket in the corner.  Draw something up that gets him moving toward the basket. Let him push in transition. Ask him to guard the other team's best wing and assist on dump ins to the post.

 

IMHO, JC's being used pretty poorly too and its part of his slide.  JC is a classic, back to the basic, lob threat, in and out big. He is not and never has been a creator. He's an inside out spacer and draw in the post. Every time you put him on the same side of the floor with Clint, the only thing he can do is float to the corner and hope for a 3.  See below.

 

 

One of the reasons JJ + OO works better right now is OO can shoot outside 5 feet and OO is better at guarding mobile players.

Watch any old game from earlier in the year and see how often 1 or both of DH/JC are on the bad spots for JC side effectively removing them from the rebounding action.  Still happens far too often but was awful at one point in the year.

 

They do this to give Clint/Trae options in running the pick n roll from the top. But a miss by Trae equals your two biggest players out of the rebound action on the weak side and 3 of your players completely out of the action on a run out/transition. There is no one on the weak side if the shot is long, to stop ball on a run out. This is part of what Snyder was saying about how our offense affects our defense.

 

one of the things Boston and Miami do to us (besides employing mafia tactics) is to ignore the corners on the drive and dive in early because they know once Trae commits to lob/floater game, the corners are useless and out of the rebound action. Miami abandons, closes early to stop penetration, daring Trae to kick to the corners. A kick to the corner often gets the ball out of a play makers hand and without a deadeye shooter on the floor (can't rely on Bogi), they've stopped ball motion and options in quick gamble.

Correct this by insisting JC/Hunter end up on the right side of the floor to allow for a good slasher/put back rebounder.

I thoroughly disagree with you but let's all be glad that Nate did the exact right things for JJ but then Quin slid in right as JJ was ready to do much more than Nate let him do.  Whatever the cause, as long as JJ is doing more and being as successful as we've seen from him I think we are on the same page in wanting to see more of it.

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, AHF said:

Nate played JJ less than 10 mpg in January when you count the DNP.  JJ was awesome in those minutes.  Others were struggling that is a problem.

campster also correctly describes how Nate was misusing JJ (akin to asking Jeff Teague to be a spot up 3pt shooter and wondering why he isn’t great).

Quin also gave JJ a DNP... 

And Nate played JJ  10+ mpg because we do not count DNPs...  You make it sound as if JJ had 5 to 6 DNPs in a row... like AJ has right now.   No.  JJ had 1 DNP followed by games where he played 16 mpg after that.   He does not have 2 DNPs in a row...

However, the Narrative you push is that "Nate Cut JJ's Minutes".   Well, starters came back from injury in Jan.  For the average of 20 mpg, JJ gave 7, 5, and 1.5.  It's good but if you have a starter who is coming back.. You have to play him. 

 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

IMHO, JC's being used pretty poorly too and its part of his slide.  JC is a classic, back to the basic, lob threat, in and out big. He is not and never has been a creator. He's an inside out spacer and draw in the post. Every time you put him on the same side of the floor with Clint, the only thing he can do is float to the corner and hope for a 3. 

Very astute and accurate.   Somebody found out that JC can hit an occassional three point shot and decided that that's the best place for him.   It no work because it's not natural for him.   I hate this thing where bigs run to the corner for the corner three. 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

one of the things Boston and Miami do to us (besides employing mafia tactics) is to ignore the corners on the drive and dive in early because they know once Trae commits to lob/floater game, the corners are useless and out of the rebound action.

Exactly...

They can quadrople team  if they want to and in the playoffs they did... That's why Hunter had that Freeway to the goal because everybody was on the other side stopping Trae.   Still.. somebody thought it was smarter to shoot threes that wasn't hitting instead of driving. 

Bey has his best games against Miami because Bey is smart enough to know that if they are going to give me the open freeway, I will take it.   And Bey kills Miami.   Unfortunately, the message is not sent to the other players.   We looked best against Miami when we somewhat abandoned the three and just concentrated on inside scoring.  We scored on our first 9 trips down because we were doing something that Miami had no plan for...  But then in the 2nd half, we went away from it??

Quin is got a lot of work to do.  One of them is that he has to deprogram a lot of the standing in corners that Nate's scheme programmed.