Bogi Extended - 4 years / $68m

[sturt]

6 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Could it be that instead Quin pushed for Bogi to be extended?

Seriously... that's the hope. That's the one guy in any of this whose opinion I have to step back and say, "Well, if QS thinks so, who am I to disagree?'

Everyone else in that decision room is someone who I have no reason to believe would be immediately hired tomorrow by another NBA team if their job in ATL was eliminated.

[JayBirdHawk]

9 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Could it be that instead Quin pushed for Bogi to be extended?  Bey and Bogi off the bench has been a bright spot since he took over.  

Maybe, maybe not....contract discussions typically take time and start early.  Around the beginning of March (3rd) it was first reported Bogi would decline his player option and become a free agent, so talks with his agent were probably ongoing prior. So Quin would have coached Bogi for 2 games before that first report and said to LF and KK to extend Bogi?   The early reports got the opting out part right, but nobody saw the extension coming.

[MarylandHawk]

3 hours ago, terrell said:

Neither does our new starting 2 guard....

How are you gonna be a scoring guard that never draws fouls? smh

At least Kev spaced the floor on O and his playmaking was just as good as Murray's imo without the stupid turnovers...

The real benefit of this deal is that it now gives them the opportunity to trade Bogi for something. Why now, because he fully recovered from his injury and that is no longer a question mark other teams. Teams value shooting and he is one of the best. We now have a bird in hand going into the offseason. 

[Gray Mule]

Quin is the new kid on the block.  Kyle Korver has been with the Hawks for a long time.  
Remember, he played here for several years.  I see his hand in this.

All who post on the Squawk worry.  If he opts out and leaves, we worry.  We just lost a very good player.

If Atlanta gives him a new contract, we worry.  It's too long!  He might not last!  He has a rebuilt knee.  What if it gives out before the end of the contract.  

Whatever happens, good or bad, you can bet that someone will be ready to say, "I told you so!"  KK was a player for many years because he could shoot.  Bogie can shoot!  If he stays healthy, great!  If not, oh well, we tried.  Just remember, no NBA player ever comes with a guarantee.  You live or die with all your decisions.

[sturt]

13 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

he fully recovered from his injury and that is no longer a question mark other teams.

 

And there ya have it.

Maryland, next time I have a used car to sell, I'll be coming to you, fersure.

 

 

[sturt]

9 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

I see his hand in this.

 

Respect Kyle as much if not more than anyone else in the executive offices.

Kyle's been actually employed in a basketball ops position... any at all... for ... um... less than 6 months. His previous experience was a year of being an assistant coach.

Like I said.

I respect Kyle as much if not more than anyone else in the executive offices.

 

[kg01]

7 minutes ago, sturt said:

 

And there ya have it.

Maryland, next time I have a used car to sell, I'll be coming to you, fersure.

 

 

Dang, you're going all the way to Maryland to sell a used car?  Sheesh, aren't you in TX?  That's crazy, stu.

 

[sturt]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Dang, you're going all the way to Maryland to sell a used car?  Sheesh, aren't you in TX?  That's crazy, stu.

 

He's just that good.

[Gray Mule]

Kyle Korver may not have years and years of experience in his latest position.  I'll agree that this is true.  Sometimes, but not always, this can mean that one has survived for a long time in his position.

Having the wisdom to think and to make decisions is something that KK had long before he became an assistant GM.  He didn't come to this position with an empty brain, waiting for it to fill for his new job.  

Nope.  He had been thinking and making decisions for many years.  Because of this and because of the type player that he was, I believe he had his finger in the pie.  No, he didn't make this decision on Bogie and his new contract.  I just believe that his voice was heard when the decision was made.

Perhaps not.  Convince me that he had nothing to do with this deal getting done.

[terrell]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Murray is a superior defender to Kevin even at the 2. 

Kev was decent defensively at the 3 though.. 

And like we've said before. the Hawks are gonna win with great offense..

Our D isnt any better than last season imo..

I see players blow by Murray just like I did with Huerter..

Not quite as bad.. Just sayin.. lol

Edited March 17, 2023 by terrell

[terrell]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

To avoid the tax this season someone had to be moved.  Didn’t have to happen until the trade deadline but that was the motive for the move.

Because we overpaid for JC.. 

Dre contract is about to be a headache too starting next year imo..

Same thing all over again.. smh

But lets extend Bogi?

Timing is just weird man..

Somebody has to go this summer..

Edited March 17, 2023 by terrell

[AHF]

2 hours ago, sturt said:

Seriously... that's the hope. That's the one guy in any of this whose opinion I have to step back and say, "Well, if QS thinks so, who am I to disagree?'

Everyone else in that decision room is someone who I have no reason to believe would be immediately hired tomorrow by another NBA team if their job in ATL was eliminated.

If our GM does whatever the coach wants, he should not only not be hired anywhere else but he should be fired by the Hawks.  You need someone with vision and convictions in that role.  Not that he shouldn’t work with his coach hand-in-hand.  That would be ideal.  He just shouldn’t be a yes man or doormat because that isn’t what you should be paying a GM to do.  

If the Medicals aren’t good and Bogi is too much of a risk, the GM should tell his coach “no.”  I am going to assume the best of Landry for the time being and assume he genuinely concluded that this was a good move.

[sturt]

17 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Convince me that he had nothing to do with this deal getting done.

 

I believe that much. I believe my first reaction was to suggest that Kyle may have made the argument himself, "Just look what I was about to do when I was 30. I see similarities!"

 

23 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Having the wisdom to think and to make decisions is something that KK had long before he became an assistant GM.  He didn't come to this position with an empty brain, waiting for it to fill for his new job.  

Right. I believe that, too. I'm just pointing out that there's not a lot of actual evidence one can point to that would back that up. It's rather, backed only by a lot of warm fuzzies that we routinely embrace when we see a player we're familiar with getting a job of whatever kind.

I'm sure the Steve Nash supporters know what I mean.

And my point is really the same axe I've been grinding. Happy to repeat it if anyone's unsure what that is.

 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

Because we overpaid for Dre and JC.. smh

You could have moved one of them if you wanted.  SG did stand out though - DM, Bogi, Huerter and AJ is a heck of a depth chart.

[sturt]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

If our GM does whatever the coach wants, he should not only not be hired anywhere else but he should be fired by the Hawks.  You need someone with vision and convictions in that role.  Not that he shouldn’t work with his coach hand-in-hand.  That would be ideal.  He just shouldn’t be a yes man or doormat because that isn’t what you should be paying a GM to do.  

*sigh*

 

We agree on the rule.

 

But. There are rules. And there are exceptions.

 

At the moment, there is no proven basketball mind in those offices.

 

Damn the rule. The reality is you have one basketball mind in the building that any other NBA team would covet to bring to their building. One.

 

That guy needs to be your architect.

 

And the guy with GM on his business card needs to be the master contractor.

[terrell]

4 hours ago, theheroatl said:

Wonder who the core for Quin is moving forward. Based on the tea leaves I believe these guys are locked in for at least the next two years:

Trae

Bogi

Onyeka

Jalen

 

Others?

Hot seat:

AJ

CC

Dre?

JC

 

No clue:

DJ

 

Looks about right to me......

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, MarylandHawk said:

The real benefit of this deal is that it now gives them the opportunity to trade Bogi for something. Why now, because he fully recovered from his injury and that is no longer a question mark other teams. Teams value shooting and he is one of the best. We now have a bird in hand going into the offseason. 

This may be one of the reasons that we keep Bogi.   We need good shooting and it's very evident now.   We feel the loss of Gallo.   We don't want to be saying the same about losing Bogi.  When Healthy, he is a high level 3 pt shooter. 

 

[sturt]

 

 

[AHF]

On 3/17/2023 at 3:51 PM, sturt said:

*sigh*

 

We agree on the rule.

 

But. There are rules. And there are exceptions.

 

At the moment, there is no proven basketball mind in those offices.

 

Damn the rule. The reality is you have one basketball mind in the building that any other NBA team would covet to bring to their building. One.

 

That guy needs to be your architect.

 

And the guy with GM on his business card needs to be the master contractor.

Missed this.  But I’ll have to agree to disagree.  Teams would absolutely hire Quinn for his basketball mind.  To be their coach. 
 

Not sure anyone would hire him to be their GM and affirmatively have no reason to think anyone would.  So why defer to him to be your architect when he has no experience doing that and will be fully occupied with coaching duties? 
 

Beyond the difference between coaches and GMs generally in terms of focus (generically coaches focus on the immediate while GMs balance the present and future), I expect he will not have the bandwidth to devote to the GM position.

Being the smartest engineer in a company doesn’t mean you should be making financing decisions just because the CFO is young and new to the role.  Coaching is a different skill set than GM.  This doesn’t mean Quinn couldn’t be a successful GM but in the absence of any evidence that he is a savant in that area I am not comfortable relying on his expertise as a coach as a proxy for talent evaluation, cap management, and the rest of the key GM skills.

I don’t see a justification for an exception here.  

[sturt]

The architect casts the vision.

The master contractor implements the vision.

Ordinarily, the GM essentially acts as both. But we know that that's not how it has to be.

In this situation, that's also not how it should be.

That's because? As long as you subscribe to the idea of a newbie GM with a bunch of unheralded others in the basketball ops department...

And...

In an environment where the owner has actually parted ways with a GM (we know now, but didn't then) over the GMs demands to be the ultimate decision-maker and not put up with the owner's idea of a democratic basketball ops department...

You've inherently, then, subscribed to letting your owner have unavoidable weight in what the vision is, and in how the vision is implemented.

The owner.

"But Landry gets to make the proposal."

Sure, the GM has a proposal, and if rejected on the first? Then a second. And a third, etc.

If he doesn't sell the first proposal persuasively to the rest of the basketball ops staff, then Nicky is there to let the... mixing analogies here... Scoutmaster know that there's disagreement, and the Scoutmaster then tells the patrol how he thinks things should be.

The owner, by default, is ultimately your architect.

The only way that isn't true is if the architect is effective in selling his vision.

Whose vision should a reasonable person believe is going to be taken by the Scoutmaster to be too compelling to override?

(a) The newbie kid, or (b) the seasoned coach who oh-by-the-way had until now been widely thought to be the right guy to be the next Pop? That's Pop who, in fact, is the vision guy in SAS, oh-by-the-way.

Question answers itself.

And why so?

First, because casting the vision doesn't require this extreme "bandwidth" you speak of. It requires just that, casting the vision. You let the master contractor figure out implementation and all that goes with that. You've been adamant to resist acknowledging that there's a way to divvy up architect and master contractor responsibilities, because the only way you're able to grasp tightly onto your conclusion is if you can successfully avoid acknowledging that point.

And second, because there's only one guy who has a record of any success in any way.

Think we may have exhausted this topic. Or at least I'm pretty sure I have.

You're welcome to the last word.