John Collins Traded - Fare thee well!

[thecampster]

My personal opinion (just an opinion) is they're considering throwing that exception or at least a good bit of it at Rui Hachimura or Kyle Kuzma but that's just my speculation.

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

My personal opinion (just an opinion) is they're considering throwing that exception or at least a good bit of it at Rui Hachimura or Kyle Kuzma but that's just my speculation.

[Diesel]

After a move like this, how can anybody say that we are serious about trying to win a chip.   Maybe it's true... Trae to LAL.   That move will save a whole lot of money and make a whole lot of Luka Lovers Happy...   And the Hawks will go back to the position that we're used to... In the draft lottery... for nothing. 

 

[JeffS17]

On 4/26/2023 at 10:14 PM, JeffS17 said:

If we trade John, I won't really celebrate too much even if we get marginally better.  For anyone that hasn't been, in the lower middle section of one side of State Farm Arena, sitting in section 119 and the sections near it, there's a big swath of seats for the "Players Club", which is an all-inclusive food lounge area.  At the end of this lounge under the seats, is a wall that's blown out where you have a giant window to the tunnel, so you can see/experience the players running through the tunnel to the court and back.  If you go early enough, you'll catch players in a more relaxed setting going back and forth before the official obligations start.  I was lucky enough to sit down there a few times this year and each time, the one player that always stopped by the window was JC -- signing autographs, taking selfies, high-fiving fans... most of the players just run by quickly and at most give a high five to fans with their hands out, but JC was by far the friendliest of the players and you could tell he really appreciated the fans.  My favorite memory from this year was just him stopping by and fist bumping me and I told him we appreciate him to which he humbly gave a "thank you man thank you"

Anyways, I think about that when reading through this thread and it made me a little sad, even if I understand peoples reasoning for wanting to move on from him.  There are not a lot of players out there that are willing to put in a little extra time for the fans and the city, so he will be missed greatly if we move on from him.

Just feel sad, really -- sucks his value isn't good on that contract and TBD on how we do for the whole offseason, but JC will be missed by a lot of fans.

[terrell]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

My personal opinion (just an opinion) is they're considering throwing that exception or at least a good bit of it at Rui Hachimura or Kyle Kuzma but that's just my speculation.

 I don’t think people realize that trade exceptions this big have significant value to a team that won’t be under the cap any time soon. 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

 I don’t think people realize that trade exceptions this big have significant value to a team that won’t be under the cap any time soon. 

Boston has been effectively using these for a while.

[JustSomeGuy]

@Diesel can you elaborate on your JJ take? Yes he came off the bench but it wasn’t like he only played in garbage time. He got quality minutes against NBA rotation players and produced.
 

Sounds like he’s trending upwards to me 

 

[ABH]

I think there's more to come

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Boston has been effectively using these for a while.

Too bad our front office isn't Boston's. 

[KB21]

6 minutes ago, thecampster said:

My personal opinion (just an opinion) is they're considering throwing that exception or at least a good bit of it at Rui Hachimura or Kyle Kuzma but that's just my speculation.

Are you talking about the MLE that was created with this deal?

[ATLHawks3]

7 minutes ago, thecampster said:

My personal opinion (just an opinion) is they're considering throwing that exception or at least a good bit of it at Rui Hachimura or Kyle Kuzma but that's just my speculation.

As a sign-and-trade? I thought you can't use the trade exception to sign players in free agency.

[Spud2nique]

Coming off the Hawks' first-round playoff exit, Bleacher Report's Zach Buckley cited the Chicago Bulls' Patrick Williams, Toronto Raptors' O.G. Anunoby and Boston Celtics' Jaylen Brown as three ideal trade candidates.

NBA insider Marc Stein reported Saturday that Atlanta covets a different Raptors star, Pascal Siakam, but that Toronto isn't budging on a deal.

It remains to be seen whether Fields has the assets at his disposal to make a blockbuster agreement happen, but the trade exception created by shedding Collins is helpful in that pursuit.

For now, the Hawks won't earn a passing grade on the return from finally jettisoning the 6'9" forward. But it's tough to view the full context surrounding the transaction until more of the offseason unfolds.

 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, ATLHawks3 said:

As a sign-and-trade? I thought you can't use the trade exception to sign players in free agency.

You can't.  You only use them in trades, not in FA.  But this does open up a MLE exception for us that could be used in FA.  I don't think it is likely to be big enough to land either of them.

[Spud2nique]

@sturt wanted Patrick Williams. Oh wait, I’m sorry wanted might be the wrong word… mentioned? Desired in some capacity perhaps? I just remember Stu and Patty Will.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

Coming off the Hawks' first-round playoff exit, Bleacher Report's Zach Buckley cited the Chicago Bulls' Patrick Williams, Toronto Raptors' O.G. Anunoby and Boston Celtics' Jaylen Brown as three ideal trade candidates.

NBA insider Marc Stein reported Saturday that Atlanta covets a different Raptors star, Pascal Siakam, but that Toronto isn't budging on a deal.

It remains to be seen whether Fields has the assets at his disposal to make a blockbuster agreement happen, but the trade exception created by shedding Collins is helpful in that pursuit.

For now, the Hawks won't earn a passing grade on the return from finally jettisoning the 6'9" forward. But it's tough to view the full context surrounding the transaction until more of the offseason unfolds.

 

I don't see how a trade exception helps in the pursuit of Siakam, because I don't see the Raptors just dealing him for draft picks and an exception.  They want real talent in return.  That trade exception cannot be packaged with players from what I can gather.

[thecampster]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

The trade exception can't be combined with anything but picks so if you traded it with Gay that would be two separate deals - one for the exception and one for Gay.  That isn't unusual but just pointing out that we can't combine the exception with another player to get someone worth more than $25M or anything.  (Unless I am remembering incorrectly how these work which is always possible.)

• Trade exceptions created in non-simultaneous trades can’t be combined with one another, with other exceptions, or with a player’s salary; they can’t be used to sign a free agent (except in a sign-and-trade); and they can’t be traded outright to another team.

 

So with the above. You can send cash, draft picks or rights. But you can't send a signed player.  So Gay + $8,000,000 of the exception does not work for another player.  But future picks + exception = Rui/Kuzma or other.  The salary difference is baked in so its not exception+ a %....that % is already baked in.

 

However, you can do the trade with a 3rd team, or 2 trades to make it work.  So currently we're over the cap.  But if a similar salary dump happens (holds waived, rights to non-guarantees waived) and then Clint finds a new home, you are under the cap and could make this happen. It's not ideal but dropping Collins isn't done in a bubble. 

 

But again, if I had to bet money, they're planning to sign a 3 and D free agent and use the extension in a sign n trade or similar trade for someone else's cap problem.  This was about executing a trade for Collins in 2 steps, not 1.

[KB21]

We are better off with Bey getting the minutes at power forward than using anything of value on Rui or Kuzma.  At least Bey can shoot at an above average clip.  

[Diesel]

Just now, JustSomeGuy said:

@Diesel can you elaborate on your JJ take? Yes he came off the bench but it wasn’t like he only played in garbage time. He got quality minutes against NBA rotation players and produced.
 

Sounds like he’s trending upwards to me 

 

Love to.

When you come off the bench, you have the luxury of playing against guys who didn't game plan for you.   Normally, you are lesser known because you're coming off the bench.   Moreover, you're catching starters that are tired and you're catching 2nd stringers who you may be better than.   So it's EASY to look good when you come off the bench.   It's hard to "keep that same energy" when you start.   

One place where you can see a measurable difference is "the playoffs".   In a playoff series, the other team gets to do some advanced scouting.   They get to game plan for all 12 players.   Somebody ( @thecampster) said that JJ crushed JC this past season.   However, what happened in the playoffs?

 

The eye test was no better.   

But we're going to be put in a situation where we will play JJ.  We're hoping he's our Draymond but he better get in the weight room. 

 

[Marvin24Williams]

Lol good lord that return is putrid. 7-8 years too late for Mr. Rudy Gay 

[Spud2nique]

I, (Spud) wanted “a Raptor” but preferably OG over Siakam but I like both. 
 

 

Right now I’m kind of mourning JC. 
 

Man, y’all, myself as well, dogged that dude but he balled for us a bit. I won’t forget the playoff run vs Embiid. That dunk. Top 5 in game Hawks dunks ever right up there with Nique. In game dunker, nice guy, team guy, I dunno, he just didn’t have the skills we were looking for? 
 

Huerter..

JC..

We lost 2 big horses from our farm. 
 

Always what’s best for the team but..

Good luck to JC for sure! Kev and JC I will always follow, our kids.