The Big O (real, not fake)

[sturt]

In case there would be any confusion [especially for anyone] hired by Hawks to do social media. As far as I would know (which isn't saying much, I admit), the new GM, the new HC, and the TV broadcast crew have only referred to Onyeka as.... wait for it... Onyeka. Thankfully, some Hawks people understand well the absurdity of the hubris here [given Oscar Robertson's historic role in the NBA]. Education is key. It always is.

 

 

[REHawksFan]

...

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by REHawksFan

[Jdawgflow]

I kind of feel like this bizarro Squawk.  Sturt has made a full heel turn.

[warcore]

Just got a great idea.... I'm gonna start a band called 'Beatles'

it's not -- THE Beatles!

[Wretch]

[Sothron]

Um....what? Does anyone actually confuse one of the greatest players of all time for a backup center?

[Gray Mule]

Model T Ford and Ford Thunderbird.  Any chance we get the two confused?  They both are Fords.

Original Big O and current Big O!  Any chance we get the two confused?  They both play basketball.

[Spud2nique]

My name is Onyeka but please call me BIG OOOOOOOOOO!!!! 

7 hours ago, Sothron said:

backup center?

Starter soon. Big O>CC

[bleachkit]

The irony being he's actually undersized. 

[sturt]

On 10/21/2023 at 9:40 AM, bleachkit said:

The irony being he's actually undersized. 

And not just physically, now that he's been so public these last few weeks that he wants to be called that.

Look. To Soth's point, yes, no one mistakes him for Oscar. Or ever will.

And so... begs hard the question... why does he choose, referencing AHF's common point that is maybe most salient of all the points made, not to endorse/embrace a brand that he can forever claim for himself, given that there is an entire universe of other options... ie, why limit his own marketability for all time... why presume "Well, I'll never be good enough anyhow to be all that marketable anyways."

[Insults deleted]

And to my point, why be that disrespectful so as to presume you're not offending an irrefutable legend?... I mean, let's get real, I completely lose interest in this conversation the moment that we learn that Onyeka respected Oscar enough to approach him and gain real Big O's blessing.

At that point, who would have any grounds for accusing Onyeka of immaturity?... or circling back to where this began... of labeling him, accurately both in terms of (relative to others at his position) stature and in terms of (relative to other civilized, educated, morally-coded human beings) character... The Small O?

No one.

That's what this is all about, for me at least.

It's just a moral imperative to me that we honor people worthy of honor, no matter who they are or what uniform they ever wore... and perhaps especially if it's someone older, who easily gets looked down upon as too old to matter... and perhaps especially especially if it's someone who, not only was a champion on the court, but who blazed a trail for others in support of their financial advancement (ie, Onyeka makes a big salary today in large part because of Oscar's work decades ago)... and their social advancement (ie, Onyeka, as a black man, enjoys an undeniably-more-equitable/diverse/inclulsive America because of those, like Oscar, who stood very publicly for the civil rights movement and continued to do so throughout his life).

I mean, the entire social construct of caring about a professional sport is rooted in the idea that some people are, by any definition, "great" at it... George Herman Ruth, aka "The Babe"... Walter Payton, aka "Sweetness"... Wayne Gretzky, aka "The Great One"... or not even at that level of achievement but important to a lot of us... Dominique Wilkins, aka "The Human Highlight Film"... we would know knee-jerk to mock anyone who ever even barely tried to adopt one of those brands as his own... yet, here we are, having to have this conversation... makes no sense, and never has... 

If you're not going to give the "greats" their proper regard in every way but particularly the most simple ways such as granting a great's brand as his exclusive brand... what are we even doing here?!?!?!?!?

None of it matters if we're going to throw greats into the pile with all the everymans and lesser. None of it. If honor becomes that disposable, that temporary, then it's all just flaky hyperbole... all BS... all a considerable nothing burger.

[Insults removed]  [Treat the man and the name with the respect it deserves.]

 

[Sothron]

FWIW I totally agree that no one, absolutely no one, ever gets to call themselves the Big O in the NBA or basketball because that name is taken and revered. My dad's favorite player was Big O and that's who he tried to model his game as when he played. I might be biased in that regard.

[RedDawg#8]

Bro, who literally even cares?

It’s only an issue or topic of conversation on this message board.

Nobody ever brings this up in the real world. It’s okay! 

[REHawksFan]

32 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Bro, who literally even cares?

It’s only an issue or topic of conversation on this message board.

Nobody ever brings this up in the real world. It’s okay! 

Agreed.

And it's only a topic of conversation on this board because Sturt forces it to be. I'm not sure anyone other than him cares enough about this issue to drone on and on about it like Sturt does. 

[sturt]

28 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Bro, who literally even cares?

It’s only an issue or topic of conversation on this message board.

Nobody ever brings this up in the real world. It’s okay! 

Bro, if you're going to judge every discussion by how popular the discussion is... that also has some implicit downstream undesirable consequences.

That's your right, but it's definitely a difference between how the two of us think about what is important to think about. Momentary popularity of an issue or prospective issue has little to do with my calculus. To me, your view is in its essence the equivalent of saying "What's the big deal if some people got killed and some others got taken hostage.... I mean, it's the real world, it happens with some regularity." That's absolutely true. But the implications of some murders and some hostage-taking can have bigger implications downstream, depending on the context.

 

To be fair to your point, this discussion is indeed almost completely confined to us in Hawks fandom because, well, hardly anyone in the US population beyond us even know that Onyeka Okongwu is a professional basketball player. And even among the NBA population, he's not a household name. And then, even among those who know who he is and how much/little he's accomplished, not that many know he's staked claim to the brand of an NBA legend.

 

To be fair to my point... well, I don't even need to be fair to my point... my point is well laid out above. It matters for the reasons I've outlined. The popularity of the issue is irrelevant to any of the points made... which might be why you choose to highlight popularity, given that there's no good way to debunk/de-legitimize anything outlined above... you have a preferred conclusion, so... with all due respect, and I do respect you as a matter of routine... you don't bother with the substance, but argue with some peripheral something that has no relevance to the points made.

 

 

[Final_quest]

5 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Agreed.

And it's only a topic of conversation on this board because Sturt forces it to be. I'm not sure anyone other than him cares enough about this issue to drone on and on about it like Sturt does. 

Ya’ll just took the cheese in the mouse trap.

[sturt]

On 10/21/2023 at 1:08 PM, Final_quest said:

Ya’ll just took the cheese in the mouse trap.

[Post focused on other posters removed]

[REHawksFan]

On 10/21/2023 at 1:13 PM, sturt said:

More self-delusion as-if clever deflection.

Look, if you don't actually have substance to offer a discussion, why bother to post at all?

Makes no sense to me. Well, no, it does. I have a working theory that's proven over the years to be pretty well supported. But I've no interest in pursuing it because it would only represent another diversion, and admittedly bloated with some presumption. No point.

You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else. [] There's plenty of people who validly disagree with your opinion. [Content focusing on other poster deleted]

[Final_quest]

On 10/21/2023 at 1:13 PM, sturt said:

[Deleted content]

Are you just using ChatGPT and messing with us?

Title: The Right to Be Big O: Defending Onyeka Okongwu's Nickname

Introduction

Nicknames have been a common and endearing aspect of human culture for centuries. They often serve as a form of identity, a reflection of one's personality, or an homage to an individual's achievements. Onyeka Okongwu, a talented young basketball player, has earned the nickname "Big O" through his impressive skills and remarkable athletic abilities. In this essay, we will explore why Onyeka Okongwu should be able to call himself "Big O," and why those who disagree with this should reconsider their stance.

The Origin of Nicknames

Nicknames are not mere labels; they often encapsulate the essence of an individual. They can be bestowed upon someone by others or adopted as a reflection of one's identity. Onyeka Okongwu's nickname, "Big O," reflects his commanding presence on the basketball court, his exceptional skills, and his ability to make a significant impact in the game. In the world of professional sports, nicknames are often used to enhance a player's brand and connection with fans. The nickname "Big O" has become synonymous with Okongwu's basketball career and is widely recognized by fans, peers, and the media.

Personal Identity and Autonomy

Individuals have the right to self-identify and choose the names by which they wish to be known, including nicknames. Onyeka Okongwu has embraced "Big O" as his nickname because it represents his unique basketball prowess and serves as a testament to his skills and achievements. This autonomy in self-naming is a fundamental aspect of personal identity, and denying someone the right to use a chosen nickname infringes upon their autonomy.

Moral Implications

Labeling those who disagree with Okongwu's right to call himself "Big O" as "morally repugnant" may be a strong statement, but it is worth considering the moral implications of denying an individual their right to self-identify. In a society that values individual autonomy and respect for personal choices, imposing one's opinions about someone's nickname can be seen as a form of judgment and control. While it is acceptable to engage in friendly debates and discussions about nicknames, it is essential to respect an individual's right to define their own identity.

Respect for Accomplishments

Onyeka Okongwu's achievements in the world of basketball are commendable. He was a standout player at USC, and he was selected in the first round of the NBA Draft, showcasing his potential for greatness in the sport. The nickname "Big O" is a recognition of his hard work, dedication, and exceptional skills on the basketball court. Dismissing this nickname not only diminishes his accomplishments but also sends the wrong message about recognizing and appreciating talent and dedication in sports.

Conclusion

In conclusion, Onyeka Okongwu's right to call himself "Big O" is a reflection of his autonomy and personal identity. The nickname has been earned through his remarkable basketball skills and accomplishments. Denying him this right, and labeling those who disagree as "morally repugnant," is a breach of personal autonomy and respect for individual choices. In a world that values individuality and respect for accomplishments, we should acknowledge and celebrate Onyeka Okongwu's right to embrace the nickname "Big O" as a testament to his excellence in the world of professional basketball.

[sturt]

18 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Are you just using ChatGPT and messing with us?

Title: The Right to Be Big O: Defending Onyeka Okongwu's Nickname

Introduction

Nicknames have been a common and endearing aspect of human culture for centuries. They often serve as a form of identity, a reflection of one's personality, or an homage to an individual's achievements. Onyeka Okongwu, a talented young basketball player, has earned the nickname "Big O" through his impressive skills and remarkable athletic abilities. In this essay, we will explore why Onyeka Okongwu should be able to call himself "Big O," and why those who disagree with this should reconsider their stance.

The Origin of Nicknames

Nicknames are not mere labels; they often encapsulate the essence of an individual. They can be bestowed upon someone by others or adopted as a reflection of one's identity. Onyeka Okongwu's nickname, "Big O," reflects his commanding presence on the basketball court, his exceptional skills, and his ability to make a significant impact in the game. In the world of professional sports, nicknames are often used to enhance a player's brand and connection with fans. The nickname "Big O" has become synonymous with Okongwu's basketball career and is widely recognized by fans, peers, and the media.

Personal Identity and Autonomy

Individuals have the right to self-identify and choose the names by which they wish to be known, including nicknames. Onyeka Okongwu has embraced "Big O" as his nickname because it represents his unique basketball prowess and serves as a testament to his skills and achievements. This autonomy in self-naming is a fundamental aspect of personal identity, and denying someone the right to use a chosen nickname infringes upon their autonomy.

Moral Implications

Labeling those who disagree with Okongwu's right to call himself "Big O" as "morally repugnant" may be a strong statement, but it is worth considering the moral implications of denying an individual their right to self-identify. In a society that values individual autonomy and respect for personal choices, imposing one's opinions about someone's nickname can be seen as a form of judgment and control. While it is acceptable to engage in friendly debates and discussions about nicknames, it is essential to respect an individual's right to define their own identity.

Respect for Accomplishments

Onyeka Okongwu's achievements in the world of basketball are commendable. He was a standout player at USC, and he was selected in the first round of the NBA Draft, showcasing his potential for greatness in the sport. The nickname "Big O" is a recognition of his hard work, dedication, and exceptional skills on the basketball court. Dismissing this nickname not only diminishes his accomplishments but also sends the wrong message about recognizing and appreciating talent and dedication in sports.

Conclusion

In conclusion, Onyeka Okongwu's right to call himself "Big O" is a reflection of his autonomy and personal identity. The nickname has been earned through his remarkable basketball skills and accomplishments. Denying him this right, and labeling those who disagree as "morally repugnant," is a breach of personal autonomy and respect for individual choices. In a world that values individuality and respect for accomplishments, we should acknowledge and celebrate Onyeka Okongwu's right to embrace the nickname "Big O" as a testament to his excellence in the world of professional basketball.

Um.

How did we go from "no one would ever confuse Onyeka with Oscar"... to this?

Dunno.

But yeah, if people want to sign over their own capacity to reason to the morality of a soul-less machine that... if you do your homework you understand... is just manufacturing its outputs according to trillions and trillions of binary code... that's their call.

Not me (obviously).

 

Pick your favorite argument your Chat GPT friend has made... I'm up for it, and won't even accuse you of falling for the cheese, nor accuse you of being self-absorbed... it's not my way.

EDIT: I should add, however, I probably don't have any more time to spare today on any of this, and probably not until Tuesday or Wednesday at the earliest. But I'm altogether content to engage whatever point you feel the machine makes that is especially important... and who knows, might even agree with the machine. Intellectual humility being something I aspire to, anyhow, even if I occasionally fail.

[REHawksFan]

On 10/21/2023 at 1:45 PM, sturt said:

Just stop acting like you can wave your magic tongue and it makes all the points made magically debunked/de-legitimized.

Just stop acting like simple disagreement is somehow something that automatically makes another conclusion automatically merited/valid.

Just stop the ad hominem.

 

Engage.

Offer substance.

Or don't, and go find another discussion where you can.

Or, better, don't be so self-absorbed that you cannot accept that a conclusion offered and supported by someone you (by evidence of the personal attack/insult) dislike.... aspire to enough intellectual humility that you can, in fact, delineate between someone you don't like and a conclusion that's been made that's, indeed, well supported.

 

I've nothing else for you RE... I even argued with myself whether to respond at all, but yeah, I did. Maybe I shouldn't have. Who knows.

[Content focused on other poster deleted]

I offered a legitimate defense to my position that OO aka Big O he has a right to keep the nickname he's had since he was a kid back when this was first an issue for you last season. 

Per usual, you summarily dismissed it not because it doesn't have merit but because it doesn't align with your opinion. 

[I find it unhelpful to discussion to] speak down to others and [find nothing of real substance in posts] that ultimately boil down to "my opinion is superior to your because I said so."

[Content focused on other poster deleted]