TRAE OR DJ OR BOTH

[capstone21]

21 hours ago, NBASupes said:

This ain't wrong. The thing is, you can make it work. Get an offensive 5 that fits Trae. Something that's been a need since we almost got away with using JC as a small ball 5. 

We have to add D … just adding more offense is not going to improve the team 

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

We have to add D … just adding more offense is not going to improve the team 

Elite offense helps defense.

[capstone21]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Elite offense helps defense.

Really?  In what way?  We score 125 … the other team still scores 130.

[NBASupes]

Just now, capstone21 said:

Really?  In what way?  We score 125 … the other team still scores 130.

That's only if the defense is super trash like the 80s Nuggets. Generally speaking, if you have an elite offense, your defense even with no defensive players should be below average at worst. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAC/2023.html

 

[Wretch]

19 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Elite offense helps defense.

Let me +1 this and add...

These things are not mutually exclusive and I don't know why we treat them as such - you can need to improve your offense while also needing to improve your defense.  Too often, we act like it's one or the other.  I agree 1000% with Supes and have held this opinion for a long time.  We are going nowhere without the ability to score when it counts.  If you can't do that, you're not a contender.

Thing is, it's difficult to find offensive difference makers.  For that reason alone, we have to prioritize building an offensive identity that works.  We can absolutely trade DJ and tune up the defense with all manner of complimentary role players.  At best, we would be what we have historically been - a hard working, "blue-collar", defensive team that wins around 45-50 games and getting bounced in the 1st or 2nd round.

This is a star driven league and you have to find at least 2 that compliment each other if you want any hope of building a contender.

[Wretch]

12 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That's only if the defense is super trash like the 80s Nuggets. Generally speaking, if you have an elite offense, your defense even with no defensive players should be below average at worst. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAC/2023.html

 

Seriously.  Playing defense is great and all, but there are possessions where you can do everything right and still get your ass busted. You're not going to stop a contender from scoring.  You must be able to respond on the other end.  Sometimes, very often when facing the best teams, offense will be the only defense you have.

[Final_quest]

Elite offense with low turnovers allows you to reduce transition baskets.  Even a below average defensive unit performs better when it is set.  
A poor offense with high turnovers helps the other team get easy buckets.  So yes, elite offense helps defense.  Significantly helps.

[AtLaS]

23 hours ago, NBASupes said:

The question is easy. 

Murray has proved during his starting run.

He's a better player than Trae

More impactful 

Better floor general

On a much cheaper contract and his teammates love him

But he also proved, he has little to no impact on carrying a team. 

Trae has ample ability to carry a team and he's hard af to deal with in a series when he can exploit you which Murray isn't capable of. 

Murray is like a better scoring ISO Joe without the hallmark size.

 

Because of this, I am keeping Trae every single time. 

Before I used to be, keep Trae, and maybe trade Murray. 

But now I am like, keep Trae unless you get Donovan Mitchell or Devin Booker or trade Murray for value so Murray definitely improved his value to me but the end result is still the same. 

I came here to say trade Trae for those same reasons.  But, the point of carrying a team in a playoff series is huge.  You need elite offensive players that can create buckets when pressure is high, defensive effort and intensity ramps up, and defense learns your moves in a long series.  If Murray is our best offensive player we have zero shot at winning anything deep in the playoffs, I don't care how good we are defensively. 

Trae has the ability to be that offensive engine, but he just needs to be more consistent.  He has some horrendous games where he single handedly loses us games sometimes with bricks and turnovers.  

The other part of me would love to see how good our defense would be with Murray playing the 1 (I love DJM as a 1) and another good wing that we receive in a Trae trade.  But the 1st issue remains, we will need an elite offensive player to create a bucket in tight playoff games.

 

Just look at last 10 NBA champions.  Nuggets (Jokic), Warriors (Curry), Bucks (Giannis), Lakers (Bron/AD), Raptors (Kawhi), Warriors, Warriors, Cavs, Warriors, Spurs.  You can't win without an elite offensive player.  

Now, the other challenge is building enough size, defense and shooting around Trae to GET him to that point in the playoffs.  I think with the right group around him that's possible, it's just going to be super hard to do.  Building around Murray is much easier if we can find an elite offensive player.

[Gray Mule]

When you have the ball, shoot and miss and your opponent grabs the rebound, this is where we are talking about.  We didn't score.  Opponent has the opportunity to score.  Sure way to lose the game with poor offense.

[JTB]

I’m not going to pick. If I had to obviously it’s trade DJ but the hawks need to really review the roster with true detail before considering to trade Trae or DJ….i get most don’t like the pairing but the teams front court is so trash that it lead to making this tandem even worse.

I really do believe a better front court would make Trae/murray hell to deal with and a deeper bench would make them hell to deal with.

I like the idea of getting Edey paired with Trae/Murray similar to @NBASupes. I’d also take Clingan.

im looking at the possible depth this team could have if the draft goes right and we get either Edey or Clingan, we could have a very deep roster keeping the same roster together.

If the draft goes right we look deep and have a very good fitting roster in my opinion.

Starters:

Trae, Murray, Hunter, Jalen, Edey or Clingan

Bench Rotation:

Trae or Murray will always run point full 48 minutes.

Bogi at SG

 Bey at SF

OO at PF

Capela at Backup Center

 

so yeah without overthinking it…at least in my opinion, if the draft goes right we have a very good overall team. Hell if anything , that draft goes right then I’m trading OO for a skilled SF and moving Hunter to bench to play SF or PF. Either way I can see the draft predicting what happens between Trae & DJ. ….if nothing at all.

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, JTB said:

Starters:

Trae, Murray, Hunter, Jalen, Edey or Clingan

Bench Rotation:

Trae or Murray will always run point full 48 minutes.

Bogi at SG

 Bey at SF

OO at PF

Capela at Backup Center

So we're pretty much bringing back the same roster except adding a draft pick, an injured Bey who is most likely out for the season and where does Bufkin fit in the lineup????

This running it back scenario is a no for me.

[theheroatl]

6 hours ago, capstone21 said:

Really?  In what way?  We score 125 … the other team still scores 130.

We literally have watched this unfold for season after season..

 

Tell me ya'll.. how many times we had 135 scored on Charlotte but Terry went for 40 and they scored 142.

 

I'm telling ya.. ya'll got your head in the sand. 

 

Literally what offense talent are we going to add to this... that is literally stupid for a front office to do.

 

Add some freaking defenders man... how freaking hard is it.

[NBASupes]

29 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So we're pretty much bringing back the same roster except adding a draft pick, an injured Bey who is most likely out for the season and where does Bufkin fit in the lineup????

This running it back scenario is a no for me.

There is no scenario that's bad if we add Edey or to a lesser degree, Clingan. 

Almost every bad scenario is where we don't come away with Edey, Clingan or trade for KAT or Embiid who's off the market and we have no assets to get Embiid nor does he want to come here. 

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

We literally have watched this unfold for season after season..

 

Tell me ya'll.. how many times we had 135 scored on Charlotte but Terry went for 40 and they scored 142.

 

I'm telling ya.. ya'll got your head in the sand. 

 

Literally what offense talent are we going to add to this... that is literally stupid for a front office to do.

 

Add some freaking defenders man... how freaking hard is it.

We have to offer some defensive resistance despite having a great offense. It cannot be bottom of the league bad.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

We literally have watched this unfold for season after season..

 

Tell me ya'll.. how many times we had 135 scored on Charlotte but Terry went for 40 and they scored 142.

 

I'm telling ya.. ya'll got your head in the sand. 

 

Literally what offense talent are we going to add to this... that is literally stupid for a front office to do.

 

Add some freaking defenders man... how freaking hard is it.

We lost those games on offense. Turnover happy, can't score easy baskets, them exploiting Trae but us having issues exploiting their defense. They killed us in transition too. Ball and Scary Terry was feasting

[NBASupes]

We have a very productive, average offense with Trae. We need elite production and an elite offense. No lulls. You know what we are going to do and you simply can't stop it because our players are better than your players and we execute better because we are simply better. 

Edited April 20 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

There is no scenario that's bad if we add Edey or to a lesser degree, Clingan. 

.

I don't think those guys are franchise changers. They'll add specific elements to upgrade the team, but not an overall fix.

[NBASupes]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

.

I don't think those guys are franchise changers. They'll add specific elements to upgrade the team, but not an overall fix.

It's not about being franchise changers for most teams, it's about being franchise changers for us. We have one of the few players with Luka and Harden that uses the center an extention of himself. We must get the best offensive center we can find to utilize it

[deester11]

On 4/19/2024 at 2:43 PM, macdaddy said:

I like DJ but his impact is being overrated by a run of just .500 ball over 20 games at the end of the season.   Yeah we beat the Celtics (who had nothing to play for) but there were a lot of schedule wins in there.  

During that run without Trae, DJ did everything the Trae haters profess to hating.  Dribbling the air at the ball and chucking a huge number of shots. 

 

Say it again! The exact same thing. 

[JTB]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So we're pretty much bringing back the same roster except adding a draft pick, an injured Bey who is most likely out for the season and where does Bufkin fit in the lineup????

This running it back scenario is a no for me.

I think this same roster at different roles for  key players is valuable.  This makes us a deeper roster without much movement on the trade front. Of course if we can trade these players for upgrades do it but in the likely hood we can’t , change their roles.

examples:

Bey started longer than we wanted , he’s a better bench player of course, that can create a spark. Bey to me is good in spurts and terrible if given too many minutes so you take what you can get with him. Plus he should be cheap this summer with the injury and all.

Bogi should be a full time bench player unless Trae or Murray get hurt and he moves to SG briefly.

you said yourself that you like off the bench Hunter better than starting Hunter  and that he’s a lot better coming off the bench. I can’t disagree so if there’s a chance to put him on the bench cause we get a starter SF from a OO trade we should do it!

How about Capela? …we definitely should be drafting a center with our first rd pick regardless of CC. Can you imagine how impactful Capela would be as a backup center for us ?! Now that would be excellent for us and it’s something we wanted OO to do but that ain’t happening.

 

I’d rather be more realistic about what could happen than unrealistic about a bunch of trades to completely redo the roster. Changing roles is fitting in my opinion.