TRAE OR DJ OR BOTH

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, JTB said:

Plus he should be cheap this summer with the injury and all.

Cheap or not he won't be available next season recovering from his ACL surgery.

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, JTB said:

 

I’d rather be more realistic about what could happen than unrealistic about a bunch of trades to completely redo the roster. Changing roles is fitting in my opinion.
 

The realistic part is unlikely bringing back the same team as a luxury tax paying team no matter the roles.

[Diesel]

The reason why the trade proposals were garbage was because we have a garbage front office.  Other GMs have noted just how badly the Spurs fleeced us and they want to fleece us too.  So no offer we get with this front office will be a good offer. 

2ndly, Some of yall want to trade Trae or DJ in a year when we don't have a first round pick?

That means that you trust this front office to bring back a good deal... good enough that it makes this badly constructed team work?  Don't get me wrong...

JB or BI... in trade for DJ and it's not a fleece, I say do it.  However, those would be the first of a few moves we would need to make to be good. 

At this point, Bridges is a Ok.. but I'm not jumping up and down over him.

Honestly, our real problem is in the size of our frontline.   I just watched Minnesota big front line just dominate.  Just like Denver did last year.  There's a theme. 

 

 

[JTB]

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The realistic part is unlikely bringing back the same team as a luxury tax paying team no matter the roles.

But it’s not the same exact starters.

Should we be really expecting the FO to change the full starting lineup around Trae?…that’s not happening I’m sure.

 

if anyone is expecting us to look way different across the board there is going to be a ton of mad people in my opinion. I’d keep the expectations low as im only expecting a change at center with a possibility at also SF.

[JTB]

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The reason why the trade proposals were garbage was because we have a garbage front office.  Other GMs have noted just how badly the Spurs fleeced us and they want to fleece us too.  So no offer we get with this front office will be a good offer. 

2ndly, Some of yall want to trade Trae or DJ in a year when we don't have a first round pick?

That means that you trust this front office to bring back a good deal... good enough that it makes this badly constructed team work?  Don't get me wrong...

JB or BI... in trade for DJ and it's not a fleece, I say do it.  However, those would be the first of a few moves we would need to make to be good. 

At this point, Bridges is a Ok.. but I'm not jumping up and down over him.

Honestly, our real problem is in the size of our frontline.   I just watched Minnesota big front line just dominate.  Just like Denver did last year.  There's a theme. 

 

 

Good post @Diesel…this is why we have to think more realistically about what can happen. Even if our owner is willing to open the wallet up now, odds are against us. Other GMs think they can get over on us. It’s going to be tough to pull a good trade for us in my opinion but they cannot just accept any damn thing.

like you said if you can trade Murray for Ingram or Jaylen Brown by all means pull the trigger but I’m having a tough time believing either of those trades can happen.

id take Mikel bridges also but I agree, ain’t jumping up and down about it!…hell may even rather just keep Murray if that’s the best we can do.

 

I believe the draft is going to be our best friend this off season. Again like you mentioned our biggest problem/issue is size in the front court! We really need to get Clingan or Edey and keep / hold on to Capela regardless unless Capela can be used in a trade with Murray to net a Ingram + filters or brown + filters 

 

I say prepare for role changing with some of the players we already have and a starting lineup change at Center and maybe a highly skilled role player at SF.

[JayBirdHawk]

18 minutes ago, JTB said:

But it’s not the same exact starters.

Should we be really expecting the FO to change the full starting lineup around Trae?…that’s not happening I’m sure.

 

if anyone is expecting us to look way different across the board there is going to be a ton of mad people in my opinion. I’d keep the expectations low as im only expecting a change at center with a possibility at also SF.

Doing the same thing over and over - Insanity!

We'll get exactly what we deserve .

[JTB]

38 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Doing the same thing over and over - Insanity!

We'll get exactly what we deserve .

If we were going to make major changes it should’ve been last offseason but we wasted it unfortunately cause of resseler.

to be clear I’m not against major changes to make the roster better but for all the reasons @Diesel mentioned in his post I think the odds of it happening is very low. We are once again seen as a joke in the nba for teams to get over on while on the verge of potentially losing Trae the next offseason ….teams are not going to just magically start helping us. They are going to throw low ball offers and ask about Traes availability like crazy over the next year. Smh 

 

again taking these guys who are currently starters to lesser roles is keeping the same team to a certain extent but it’s lowering their expectations. Getting a new Center and SF would be better than nothing .

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, JTB said:

If we were going to make major changes it should’ve been last offseason but we wasted it unfortunately cause of resseler.

Well....yeah. but we can't put the genie back in the bottle. Doesn't mean we do nothing...again.

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, JTB said:

to be clear I’m not against major changes to make the roster better but for all the reasons @Diesel mentioned in his post I think the odds of it happening is very low. We are once again seen as a joke in the nba for teams to get over on while on the verge of potentially losing Trae the next offseason ….teams are not going to just magically start helping us. They are going to throw low ball offers and ask about Traes availability like crazy over the next year. Smh 

 

again taking these guys who are currently starters to lesser roles is keeping the same team to a certain extent but it’s lowering their expectations. Getting a new Center and SF would be better than nothing .

Keeping the same cast of characters in different roles...it'll still be the same ole play.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, JTB said:

Good post @Diesel…this is why we have to think more realistically about what can happen. Even if our owner is willing to open the wallet up now, odds are against us. Other GMs think they can get over on us. It’s going to be tough to pull a good trade for us in my opinion but they cannot just accept any damn thing.

like you said if you can trade Murray for Ingram or Jaylen Brown by all means pull the trigger but I’m having a tough time believing either of those trades can happen.

id take Mikel bridges also but I agree, ain’t jumping up and down about it!…hell may even rather just keep Murray if that’s the best we can do.

 

I believe the draft is going to be our best friend this off season. Again like you mentioned our biggest problem/issue is size in the front court! We really need to get Clingan or Edey and keep / hold on to Capela regardless unless Capela can be used in a trade with Murray to net a Ingram + filters or brown + filters 

 

I say prepare for role changing with some of the players we already have and a starting lineup change at Center and maybe a highly skilled role player at SF.

Let me amend my statement on Bridges.

He's 6'6" 209...  plays excellent defense.   That's better than 6'5 185... and plays passing lanes very well.   However, our frontcourt is where the major problems are.  We're small.   Small like, I would look at moving JJ to SF and going after a 7 foot center and a big PF.  The game is changing before our eyes.   Small ball teams can't win anything.  The GS model is passe.   The game is revolving back to dominant bigs who can dominate in the paint. 

I agree with you on keeping CC around and picking up a big in the draft.   Either one we get whether Ware, Clignanan, or Edey will be a project.   OO is tradable in my opinion because he's not really fitting for the future.  He would have to become a good PF.   But we shall see. 

[Peoriabird]

If you want a chance at winning consistently, keep DJ.  If you want to be entertained, keep Trae.

Bottom line is the league was right...You can't win consistently with a small none physical players in your starting line up unless he is nearly flawless on offense.  Your can win with adequate sized players with flaws but not the former.  The Young experiment failed!  There is adequate data now to conclude what we all feared 2 years ago against Miami in the playoffs is more of the reality than the magical run against the Knicks and Sixers the year prior.  Maybe DJ isn't that transcendent star who can carry a team to a championship but neither is Trae Young.  This biggest difference is that DJ's salary doesn't prohibit the team from acquiring that type of player whereas Young's salary and future demands will . 

[Diesel]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

If you want a chance at winning consistently, keep DJ.  If you want to be entertained, keep Trae.

Bottom line is the league was right...You can't win consistently with a small none physical players in your starting line up unless he is nearly flawless on offense.  Your can win with adequate sized players with flaws but not the former.  The Young experiment failed!  There is adequate data now to conclude what we all feared 2 years ago against Miami in the playoffs is more of the reality than the magical run against the Knicks and Sixers the year prior.  Maybe DJ isn't that transcendent star who can carry a team to a championship but neither is Trae Young.  This biggest difference is that DJ's salary doesn't prohibit the team from acquiring that type of player whereas Young's salary and future demands will . 

The talking heads just talk.  That's it.

Give me DJ, Give me Trae... and put them with Minnesota's front line of  Gobert, KAT, and McDaniels and I guarantee a playoff spot in the East.   Possibly top 3. 

Give me DJ, Give me Trae... and put them with Jokic, Gordon, and Porter Jr... and I guarantee a playoff spot in the East.   Probably top spot. 

Give me DJ, Give me Trae and put them with Isaac, Banchero, and Wagner... and I guarantee a playoff spot in the East.   Probably top 3. 

 

The size of DJ and Trae isn't the big problem... Look at Cleveland.. Look at Minnesota... these backcourts are smaller than ours.   It is the lack of size and physicality in our frontcourt.   The thing that made Bey even courtworthy is that he was the only guy on our team who would go inside and scrap... and play physically.    With no JC... we got very small very quickly...   JJ is great but at 6'9 220.. and I don't think he's that big... he's overmatched at the 4.  Same is true with Hunter.. and Hunter has the natural size to be a 4 but no physicality.   OO could be a 4 but he doesn't have the skillset.   That's our problem.   Clint is 6'10" and undersized but he does a good work.   And this is us.  Undersized in the frontcourt.   Not able to cover for a back court like most teams do.   So we blame the backcourt for being too small. 

Replace Trae and DJ with Haliburton and Nembhard and you will still have the same problem.   We have let the national media and the people who represent players to get the messaging that our Backcourt is the problem.   Not true. 

 

[Peoriabird]

25 minutes ago, Diesel said:

 

Give me DJ, Give me Trae... and put them with Minnesota's front line of  Gobert, KAT, and McDaniels and I guarantee a playoff spot in the East.   Possibly top 3. 

 

 

Anybody can construct an all star team,  The problem is that you can't afford it.  The more practical way of achieving a goal is to find that  young special player rather than acquire a bunch of massively overpaid players who are toward the end of their careers

[JTB]

4 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Anybody can construct an all star team,  The problem is that you can't afford it.  The more practical way of achieving a goal is to find that  young special player rather than acquire a bunch of massively overpaid players who are toward the end of their careers

Sure but I think there’s way too much blame going towards the tandem of Trae/Murray as if they are the sole problem.

one thing for sure you didn’t deny what @Diesel stated here…put Trae/Murray with TWolves front court and it’s a guarantee we will see different winning results. I will go a step further and say  replace KAT with Jalen Johnson in that same scenario and we are easily a 50 win ball club.

Having Trae as a max player is not the issue. Someone is going to get paid at a star level talent on every franchise regardless of the position and frankly Trae has earned his money.

If we had a capable front office and owner that had an actual building plan around Trae we wouldn’t be in the situation we are in but we have incapable staff who keeps changing plans.  
 

when we drafted Trae I believe the direction was extremely clear. Put size around Trae with specific skill set and we got away from that plan after the ECF run. There has been no true plan until recently with Synder coming in and stating the obvious “We need more size”….I believe Snyder is seeing a very capable tandem in Trae/Murray if the front court can be upgraded beside them.

My biggest fear is trading Murray or Trae and getting back significantly less! I don’t trust this front office to not get played in negotiations for top two star players and personally I believe you can win with Trae with the correct pieces surrounding him so I wouldn’t trade him regardless.

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

If you want a chance at winning consistently, keep DJ.  If you want to be entertained, keep Trae.

Bottom line is the league was right...You can't win consistently with a small none physical players in your starting line up unless he is nearly flawless on offense.  Your can win with adequate sized players with flaws but not the former.  The Young experiment failed!  There is adequate data now to conclude what we all feared 2 years ago against Miami in the playoffs is more of the reality than the magical run against the Knicks and Sixers the year prior.  Maybe DJ isn't that transcendent star who can carry a team to a championship but neither is Trae Young.  This biggest difference is that DJ's salary doesn't prohibit the team from acquiring that type of player whereas Young's salary and future demands will . 

I think our goal should be to make Trae flawless on offense. Let elite offense be our best defense. 

[NBASupes]

@benhillboy

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 4/19/2024 at 3:59 PM, REHawksFan said:

I selected keep both which is completely contradictory to what I think should happen.  I just have a feeling that's what's going to happen.  We'll see I guess.  I definitely don't think it works with both, but there's part of me that thinks the Hawks will just chalk this year not working up to injuries and they'll make other changes rather than splitting up Trae and DJ.  I think Quin really likes both players and thinks it can and will work with both.  I think Trae and DJ both want to stay and make it work.  

I don't see it, but that's my thought on what the Hawks will do.  If I was the GM, I'd try to trade DJ to the Pels for BI and Dyson Daniels and then focus my attention on upgrading the C position.   

 

I've said all year that these two are not the major problem with this team, no matter how bad they defend on the perimeter.

The problem with this team is on the frontcourt.  Our frontcourt is not athletic nor aggressive enough on both offense and defense, to compete with high level teams.  That's why this team goes straight to hell whenever just one of those guys are out of the lineup.

Capela is a high caliber rebounder, but he is not a high level rim protector any more.  People score easily on him in the post.  On offense, we have no chance to stretch the floor with him on the court, which makes it harder for our guards to beat people and score at the rim.  Capela routinely gives up 50% DFG shooting.

Hunter's worth is offensive only, and that's when he's making the 3 ball. We can't even tout him as even an average defender, because his defense makes ZERO impact on a game. Combine that with his weak rebounding numbers, he's one of the biggest issues on the team, from a consistency standpoint. I've said for 4 years now that he'd be better at the 2, than at the combo 3/4 spot, because he plays like a 2.

JJ is a very talented offensive player, but he is not a top level scorer. His game is to be that all around guy that does some of everything.  A good coach might even consider running a good chunk of offense through him, so that it frees Trae and DJ up for shots and dribble drives off the ball. On defense, his help defense is good, but his man defense is sub par.  He's also not a rim protector, averaging only 0.8 blocks per game.

Okongwu's poor defensive rebounding is a killer for this team, when he's in the game in place for Capela.  And here's the big red flag for Okongwu:

• Per 36 minutes
  • Okongwu:  14.4 pts - 9.6 rebs - 1.9 asst - 0.7 stls - 1.5 blks . . . . 61% FG - 79% FT ( on 3 att ) - 33% 3FG - PER: 16.9
  • Fernando:  14.9 ppg - 10.2 rebs - 2.4 asst - 1.3 stls - 1.5 blks . .  58% FG - 67% FT ( on 5 att ) - 0% 3FG - PER: 15.2

When Bruno actually got decent playing time, he's shown that there's not much difference between he and Okongwu.  Bruno was the better defender. OO is the better offensive guy.  With both of them being undersized centers, how much of an impact is OO really for this team?  And if he can't take Capela's spot as the starter, his value is even less for the team.

 

Keep both Trae and DJ . . . go get an all-star level frontcourt player.

[AHF]

The problem is that Trae + Bogi or DJM + Bogi is better than Trae + DJM.  There is no problem with talent.  The problem is fit.  That is too expensive of a pairing to fit that poorly.  Better to start Bogi and trade one to upgrade the frontcourt.  

[Peoriabird]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I think our goal should be to make Trae flawless on offense. Let elite offense be our best defense. 

Trae will never be flawless on offense...His decision making has always been questionable (note the turnovers) and will never be a good enough shooter.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Trae will never be flawless on offense...His decision making has always been questionable (note the turnovers) and will never be a good enough shooter.

His decision making on advantage is elite. His decision making becomes bad when he feels he has to do everything. Basically the Josh Smith 

Edited April 22 by NBASupes