Hawks trade Bazemore to Portland for E. Turner

[AHF]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

We finally get a beat writer giving us explanation from sources...

 

 

Not that that helps that much.

Even accepting this, what's with this timing???

Wait until, at least, training camp.... you never know what injuries might occur between now and then, and what team might give you a call.

 

 

So how does this free up playing time?  It is because Baze deserves more minutes than Turner.  So downgrade the roster for more playing time instead of just managing minutes as you deem appropriate.  Sounds right to me.

7 minutes ago, Marvin24Williams said:

I hope this doesn’t cut into Bembrys playing time.

It inevitably will.  Every minute Turner plays is one less minute Bembry can play.  They cannot be played on the floor at the same time and fill many of the same boxes.  At best, it means Turner takes some minutes from our backup PG and those would have been minutes Bembry couldn't have played because Turner is a bit better at ballhandling and passing but also means that unlike a backup PG who can shoot that you can't play Bembry during this time.  So it will absolutely cost Bembry playing time.

[Atlantaholic]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

Basketball Reference lists Turner as a PG for Portland last year because of this:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/turneev01.html

Right next to that sweet .493% career TS%, -2.0 BPM career, 0.1 VORP career, etc.

I mean the guy has played 686 games and has 0.0 offensive win shares for his career.  Since that is not a rate stat but a volume stat I'm not even sure how that is theoretically possible.  Offensive dynamo Royal Ivey had 1.6 offensive win shares in many fewer minutes.

Just to show I can be positive, Turner at least seems to have a good attitude and seems to be a bit more effective as his playing time decreases.  Hopefully that will mean career high effectiveness for him this season.

Well, by that standard he is infinity times better than Bazemore at offense since Baze has a career -2.0 win shares. Including -.07 just last year.

[Spud2nique]

Turner is ineffective at shooting. But what about a lineup of:

Pg Turner

sg Huerter

sf Cam

pf Hunter

c Collins

Surround him with 4 shooters. They still might find schemes to leave Turner open but it becomes harder.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

So 82games has it wrong? You got anything to back you up on that other than "I watch the Blazers all the time?"

Or, more likely, 82games has it right, and neither of those guys are hardly ever out at the same time.

Anyone can tell you that who watches the games. NBA.com can tell you that. 82games.com goes by who you defend as your position. Not what you are on offense. 

[DBac]

3 minutes ago, GameTime said:

Bazemore, after last season ended, was not an asset. He was a net negative. Schlenk got neutral value for him. Unless you are basing this off of locker room presence, if Schlenk views Turner as a backup PG, this trade makes sense. Not a great trade, but a neutral one that wiped away a component of a crowded wing rotation.

Compared to Evan Turner, Baze is an asset.

[sturt]

New thought.

What if Schlenk decided he'd rather keep Crabbe, and/but he couldn't keep both Crabbe *and* Baze?

This will all make so much more sense if Turner gets cut..... or... if Bembry gets traded.

[Spud2nique]

One last note on this trade:

Both men are great people off the court. That’s all I got.  

#freecrabbecakes #hazercomegetit #kgcrabbe?  

Just now, sturt said:

New thought.

What if Schlenk decided he'd rather keep Crabbe, and/but he couldn't keep both Crabbe *and* Baze?

This will all make so much more sense if Turner gets cut.

Yes sir. I’ve been saying Crabbe over Baze all day. Crabbe fits our style perfectly.

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I think we are vastly overrating Baze's on court contributions to the LP/Trae era Hawks.   I love the guy but why exactly do we want him on the team next year other than we like him as a person?

Turner is getting trashed because he's not a good shooter.   He stays a rotation player for a reason.  Travis wants playmakers everywhere.  That was not Prince and that was not Baze. 

Turner is garbage and has played less basically every season because he is garbage.  Look at his playing time even with the enormous investments his teams have made in him:

2012-13 35.3 mpg

2013-14 30.3 mpg

2014-15 27.6 mpg

2015-16 28.0 mpg

2016-17 25.5 mpg

2017-18 25.7 mpg

2018-19 22.0 mpg

Expect that number to drop again this year.

 

It isn't that he can't pass or dribble.  It is that he can't shoot jumper.  At all.  In a league that lives and dies on spacing and shooting.  On a team that has dedicated itself to pace, spacing and shooting.  And he is passable on D at best.

[Atlantaholic]

Just now, AHF said:

So how does this free up playing time?  It is because Baze deserves more minutes than Turner.  So downgrade the roster for more playing time instead of just managing minutes as you deem appropriate.  Sounds right to me.

It inevitably will.  Every minute Turner plays is one less minute Bembry can play.  They cannot be played on the floor at the same time and fill many of the same boxes.  At best, it means Turner takes some minutes from our backup PG and those would have been minutes Bembry couldn't have played because Turner is a bit better at ballhandling and passing but also means that unlike a backup PG who can shoot that you can't play Bembry during this time.  So it will absolutely cost Bembry playing time.

OMG less minutes for Bembry!!!  How will we survive!?

(-1.8 career offensive win shares)

 

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

And more Crabbe  

ps Now watch us buy him out  

You know Crabbe irks the hell outta me, this just opens the door for him not to get a buyout and get mins. UGH!

[sturt]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Anyone can tell you that who watches the games. NBA.com can tell you that. 82games.com goes by who you defend as your position. Not what you are on offense. 

He's not the primary ballhandler when either of Lillard or McCollum are on the court.

Lillard and/or McCollum are practically always on the court.

Trying to give you some room here, perhaps there were times that Turner brought the ball up the court. That, on its own, doesn't make him the PG, though.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

OMG less minutes for Bembry!!!  How will we survive!?

(-1.8 career offensive win shares)

 

Bembry is an impact defender and a liability on offense.  Turner is a liability on offense and a non-impact defender.

[Atlantaholic]

6 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

One last note on this trade:

Both men are great people off the court. That’s all I got.  

#freecrabbecakes #hazercomegetit #kgcrabbe?  

Yes sir. I’ve been saying Crabbe over Baze all day. Crabbe fits our style perfectly.

If Reddish struggles throughout the season it will most certainly be Crabbe that starts getting his minutes. 

[NBASupes]

We can still play Bembry with Trae and Reddish but with Turner it is like playing 3 on 5. No bueno

[Atlantaholic]

Just now, AHF said:

Bembry is an impact defender and a liability on offense.  Turner is a liability on offense and a non-impact defender.

Calling Bembry a liability on offense is kind. 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

He's not the primary ballhandler when either of Lillard or McCollum are on the court.

Lillard and/or McCollum are practically always on the court.

Trying to give you some room here, perhaps there were times that Turner brought the ball up the court. That, on its own, doesn't make him the PG, though.

Somebody doesn't watch the Blazers games...

[AHF]

Just now, sturt said:

He's not the primary ballhandler when either of Lillard or McCollum are on the court.

Lillard and/or McCollum are practically always on the court.

Trying to give you some room here, perhaps there were times that Turner brought the ball up the court. That, on its own, doesn't make him the PG, though.

 

Quote

At the conclusion of 2018-19, Turner had played half of his minutes as a true point guard, often with neither McCollum or Lillard on the floor.

See also:

Quote

In the postseason this year, Turner scored a measly 2.7 points per game, shooting  32.6  percent from the field. Defensively he was solid, but Turner just didn't have the impact necessary on offense and at times he became unplayable. Terry Stotts apparently thought so, too, and the 22-minute per night Turner hit that mark twice in the postseason - both against the Golden State Warriors. He withered, and the fervor around the discussion of his staying in Rip City has been dialed up once again.

Quote

Unfortunately, a more complex consideration of Turner's use in Portland, one that takes into account his excellent regular season progress, results in much the same outcome. He can't shoot, and because he's a dribbler but not a driver, a lack of individual offense limits what Turner can produce himself.

https://sports.yahoo.com/judge-evan-turners-third-season-212221274.html

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Atlantaholic said:

Calling Bembry a liability on offense is kind. 

Bembry will be out of the league if he doesn't improve on offense.

We will be paying Turner $18.6M for him to destroy the spacing on the floor or to dominate the ball when he is in the game and stifle the development of our young players.

[NBASupes]

Turner is an average to below average basketball player who is bad when playing any position other than PG. But, is he currently better Jeremy Lin or Jaylen Adams? That's all that truly matters. Sadly, he does hurt Bembry. I hate that and helps Crabbe. I hate that more. 

Edited June 24, 2019 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Bembry will be out of the league if he doesn't improve on offense.

We will be paying Turner $18.6M for him to destroy the spacing on the floor or to dominate the ball when he is in the game and stifle the development of our young players.

He gonna be playing with Crabbe, Bembry, Omari, VC and maybe Hunter at times and Reddish at others. Trae still getting a bulk of the mins.