News and Notes: Updated between Games

[macdaddy]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

These guys have somehow convinced themselves that this team won't be better off with a better coach for some reason.

give me a break.  you've convinced yourselves that there is some magical 'better' coach out there that would have done more with this roster.  I've said multiple times that i think LP deserves plenty of criticism but doesn't deserved to be fired for not winning more games with one of the worst, youngest rosters in the nba.

what i've heard is a lot of fuzzy math, arguments about how Goodwin and Bembry were allowed to run amuck jacking 3s, and my favorite argument:  LP runs no system at all and just lets Trae make up the offense.    Nice facts. 

[JayBirdHawk]

All I know and will say is we need better players surrounding the young core and coach to grow and win.

 

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

Those 6 players took 396 threes in 67 games. That is almost 6 ( 5.91 ) threes a game from players who are shooting combined around .250 from three.

Again, you can't say that there were 6 threes a game taken by these players.  That's just untrue.   They weren't all in the same games. 

 

[Buzzard]

17 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

give me a break.  you've convinced yourselves that there is some magical 'better' coach out there that would have done more with this roster.  I've said multiple times that i think LP deserves plenty of criticism but doesn't deserved to be fired for not winning more games with one of the worst, youngest rosters in the nba.

what i've heard is a lot of fuzzy math, arguments about how Goodwin and Bembry were allowed to run amuck jacking 3s, and my favorite argument:  LP runs no system at all and just lets Trae make up the offense.    Nice facts. 

The only argument that is valid is LP runs a system that does not fit the team. Getting open looks for players like Goodwin, Bembry, etc for a three is a bad system by design. That's on the coach; not Trae.

I will be bet really good money we are not a .500 team at any point after 20 games next season. My fuzzy math as you call is this: we can sign another good shooter but we will still have bad shooters that LP lets jack. In other words, adding Bertans or Harris won't be enough. LP needs a super shooting team that is at least 8 deep in shooters for this so called system to work.

That ain't going to happen.

PS, I am going to laugh my ass off after Capela takes the first three of his career; then probably turn the damn TV off in anger. Thats better than throwing the remote at it

Edited April 1, 2020 by Buzzard

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

All I know and will say is we need better players surrounding the young core and coach to grow and win.

 

I just haven't seen the growth in LP from year 1 to year 2.  His approach looks the same to me.  Go out there and chuck up a bunch of 3's and if they go in, we have a chance.  If not, we don't have a prayer because we not only don't excel at any other aspect of the game but in many of the categories, we are last or close to last in the league.

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

I just haven't seen the growth in LP from year 1 to year 2.

I don't disagree with this but obviously i'm willing to give him another year (or half if he loses the team)

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

The only argument that is valid is LP runs a system that does not fit the team. Getting open looks for players like Goodwin, Bembry, etc for a three is a bad system by design. That's on the coach; not Trae.

I will be bet really good money we are not a .500 team at any point after 20 games next season. My fuzzy math as you call is this: we can sign another good shooter but we still have bad shooters that LP lets jack. In other words, adding Bertans or Harris won't be enough. LP needs a super shooting team that is at least 8 deep in shooters for this so called system to work.

That ain't going to happen.

PS, I am going to laugh my ass off after Capela takes the first three of his career; then probably turn the damn TV off in anger. Thats better than throwing the remote at it

My  point is that the system is for trae, heurter, hunter, cam, collins.  And they are good 3 point shooters and they will be here next year.   I think 4 of the 6 guys mentioned as bad shooters won't be here next year.   

[Peoriabird]

13 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

we can sign another good shooter but we still have bad shooters that LP lets jack. In other words, adding Bertans or Harris won't be enough. LP needs a super shooting team that is at least 8 deep in shooters for this so called system to work.

 

All teams will do is funnel the ball to the worst shooter like this year and dare him to take the shot which according to LP himself has  the green light to do regardless of who it is.  Heck he was even trying to convince Teague to take 4 3's a game something even Teague was refusing to do because he is smart enough to realize that's not his strength.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

My  point is that the system is for trae, heurter, hunter, cam, collins.  And they are good 3 point shooters and they will be here next year.   I think 4 of the 6 guys mentioned as bad shooters won't be here next year.   

But then he will mix in players like Teague, Goodwin, Bembry, Vince, Bruno etc and the ball finds these guys at the 3 point line every time.

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

All team will do is funnel the ball to the worst shooter like this year and dare him to take the shot which according to LP himself has  the green light to do regardless of who it is.  Heck he was even trying to convince Teague to take 4 3's a game something even Teague was refusing to do because he is smart enough to realize that's not his strength.

That is because the opponent has been told who to sag off of. Its really simple and plays right into their hands. The reason a lot of our players get open looks is good coaching by the opponent; not necessarily because of the great system that LP put in place.

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

That is because the opponent has been told who to sag off of. Its really simple and plays right into their hands. The reason a lot of our players get open looks is good coaching by the opponent; not necessarily because of the great system that LP put in place.

You mean basic coaching by the other teams.  Every team does this!

[AHF]

I agree that LP needs to step up next season.  His development with the young guys is mixed.  JC, Trae and Reddish standout for positive development during their time under LP.  Are they finished products yet?  No.  Do they have flaws?  Definitely.  But have they steadily grown from when he started with them in an overall very positive way?  Yes.

If we focus on the results, we were on pace to win 25 games this season (more if you extrapolate our more recent win rate over the rest of the games).  TS had us winning 31 games without JC getting suspended, with fewer injuries and with better performance from all the vets on the roster.  So I'd say that a 25-28 win pace from the team in light of where TS miscalculated and where suspensions and injuries impacted the team probably left TS satisfied with our final record.

Next season there are no more excuses.  No one should expect the team to win a ring or be a contender but we should be strongly competing for the playoffs and if the team is laying down or struggling badly then LP will need to be replaced.  If he takes what should be a stronger, deeper and more fundamentally sound roster and has us playing more like the Grizzlies from last season (strong internal development mixed with ~.500 play) or teams like the Nuggets from a few years ago (a few games over .500 and fighting hard night after night) then he will have earned another year with the team.

It is on him to have the team playing to win.

[Peoriabird]

29 minutes ago, AHF said:

I agree that LP needs to step up next season.  His development with the young guys is mixed.  JC, Trae and Reddish standout for positive development during their time under LP.  Are they finished products yet?  No.  Do they have flaws?  Definitely. 

I just have to disagree on Trae especially.  Trae has the same flaws he had as a rookie.  He just worked like heck over the summer with players like Kobe and Nash to get better at shooting.  But as far as turnover, bad shots, zero off ball movement, bad decisions and bad defense he is worse this year than last.  Does he hit those ill advise difficult shots better yes but they are still ill advised shots that a lot of times lead to loses.  As far as john is concerned, he is still utilized the same way.  Yes he has improved his 3 point shooting but his play making and defense still has a ways to go.  And Reddish looks better because he couldn't possibly look any worse.  We just need a better coach period.  It will make all the difference in the world for this team.

[kg01]

45 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I just have to disagree on Trae especially.  Trae has the same flaws he had as a rookie.  He just worked like heck over the summer with players like Kobe and Nash to get better at shooting.  But as far as turnover, bad shots, zero off ball movement, bad decisions and bad defense he is worse this year than last.  Does he hit those ill advise difficult shots better yes but they are still ill advised shots that a lot of times lead to loses.  As far as john is concerned, he is still utilized the same way.  Yes he has improved his 3 point shooting but his play making and defense still has a ways to go.  And Reddish looks better because he couldn't possibly look any worse.  We just need a better coach period.  It will make all the difference in the world for this team.

Tough to take you seriously when you refuse to give anyone credit for anyone's improvement but blame one guy for everyone's flaws.

[Buzzard]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Next season there are no more excuses.  No one should expect the team to win a ring or be a contender but we should be strongly competing for the playoffs and if the team is laying down or struggling badly then LP will need to be replaced.  If he takes what should be a stronger, deeper and more fundamentally sound roster and has us playing more like the Grizzlies from last season (strong internal development mixed with ~.500 play) or teams like the Nuggets from a few years ago (a few games over .500 and fighting hard night after night) then he will have earned another year with the team.

It is on him to have the team playing to win.

This is pretty much the pass that he is being given. Its going to be crazy bad if we are still jacking threes and making them at similar rates; even if we add Bertans, Harris, or Sturts max player plus possibly adding another shooter via the draft. Then we have the last place defense that needs a lot of improvement.

If we have a record of something like 5 and 15 give or take 2 games either way, after 20 games, I say LP has to go. The problem with that is do we have a good Xs and Os Coach on the bench? Hiring one during the season is almost a impossible ask.

I love watching our young players but this discussion already has me not looking forward to another season of being in the top ten for threes taken and the bottom five for three point percentage ( threes made ).

Edited April 1, 2020 by Buzzard

[macdaddy]

From January 1st until the season was halted

Hawks #7 in 3 point attempts, #21 in 3 point percentage

Bucks #5 in 3 point attempts, #24 in 3 point percentage

 

[JTB]

4 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

This is hopeless man...These guys have somehow convinced themselves that this team won't be better off with a better coach for some reason.  And that is the end of the story.  You can throw fact after fact that strongly supports the contrary but the answer will always be nobody could have done a better job coaching this team.  Trae nor John Collins or the rest of the team would have benefited from excellent coaching

Don’t be silly!!! That’s not it...I think it’s more we are saving breath because we understand how the undocumented  business Of the NBA works. 

the business doesn’t work based on a logical mindset... it works based on whatever the current plan is for that franchise!

No one thinks LP is all high and mighty ...we just know the roster that was given to him isn’t going to put him on the hot seat. Once he gets a formidable roster which he WILL this offseason then we will see the pressure get laid upon his ass. Right now the arguing is a waste of time and effort and should be saved for next season.

nexr season if we are losing argue away, bash LP, do whatever....there won’t be any excuses next season.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, JTB said:

No one thinks LP is all high and mighty ...

Maybe @NBASupes

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Tough to take you seriously when you refuse to give anyone credit for anyone's improvement but blame one guy for everyone's flaws.

It just that I've been through the Mike Smith's Falcon era where the fans constantly blamed the players and GM for the team's failures particularly on defense...only to find out that Smith would only work as a DC in Tampa and was one of the worst there too while never getting another coaching job after that.

[kg01]

8 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

It just that I've been through the Mike Smith's Falcon era where the fans constantly blamed the players and GM for the team's failures particularly on defense...only to find out that Smith would only work as a DC in Tampa and was one of the worst there too while never getting another coaching job after that.

... but that has nothing to do with the Hawks ... at all.