Ask Supes

[mrhonline]

16 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@mrhonline you were right.  Supes also said preCovid, Boston was prepared to offer as much as 4/$75 if he opted out.

Boston is in such an unenviable position here. They don't need and can't really afford a Hayward extension, but also don't want him to opt in. They only really benefit if Hayward opts out to re-sign for less than $25M per year because they can trade him down the road for closer to full value. So, even if Atlanta is merely acting as leverage to drive up his price, that's a win.

If I were Boston and Hayward does opt in, I'd consider a Dedmon-for-Hayward trade. They need more center depth and the unguaranteed money on the last year of his deal makes him a nice trade asset at the deadline. (Not to mention the trade exception).

[NekiEcko]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It's pretty easy to guess it if you been closely following my posts with Indy. 

One question, is this PG from Indiana? I can so see that.

[kg01]

I've already given you people the answer. 

This is what I get for joking around all the time.  Nobody knows when to take me seriously. 

[NBASupes]

42 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If he doesn't, they can get a TPE which they can use a portion of it on a player and discard the rest of the TPE to lower their tax burden?

I think their hard capped for any SnT.

[ShooterSays]

What time are you planning on dropping the draft update, @NBASupes? Refreshing every new post is getting tiresome lol

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I think their hard capped for any SnT.

Even if it only nets a TPE? Which they can decline or accept?

[capstone21]

25 minutes ago, DS5 said:

More of a 3&d guy at this point and definitely still a good defender

So it’s not Hill

[gurpilo]

hace 10 minutos, NBASupes dijo:

It's pretty easy to guess it if you been closely following my posts with Indy. 

The discussion I remember is the Myles Turner one. Regarding Oladipo I guess we are the ones eating salary so that Oladipo goes to a contender. I remember us as a possible Wiggins destination but nothing more. Hill makes 9 million$, I guess could work.

[capstone21]

10 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I've already given you people the answer. 

This is what I get for joking around all the time.  Nobody knows when to take me seriously. 

Does Brogdon fit the bill?  I remember the convo about him previously... it just feels like it will be a lot more then Dedmon.  Would love to get him.  

[capstone21]

If it was Brogdon then make it happen.  It makes losing Red Vlevet easier ... plus he is a 1/2 guard so we now have a sixth mSn who could play either spot ... also he is an excellent 3 point shooter.

That would leave just backup pf to be answered.

If it was Brogdon.  It would cost more then Dedmon.

[JayBirdHawk]

These are the teams that have interest in Oladipo:

Lakers, Knicks, Mavs, Suns, Raptors, Nets, and Timberwolves

4 teamer:

Phoenix gets FVV 

Hawks get Rubio

Raptors get Oladipo

Indy gets OG 

 

 

 

[thecampster]

39 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I'm still missing parts of it myself.  I thought the extend was to the existing contract as is, same or more salary just additional years. @thecampster can clarify.

See below:

We will use Hayward as an example:

 

Hayward has 1 year left on his contact if he opts in at $34,187,085.

The rule is no more than 105% with 5% increases. He could be extended up to 2 more years (see part 2) at a max salary of $35,896,439.25 and $37,691,261.21.

I believe the 5% less than rule also applies.  If it does then the decrease max would be $32,477,730.75 year one and $30,853,844.21.  First, lets look at Extension and trade.

As I read the rules, if it is an extension its 8% max up or down (See part 3).  If its an Extension and Trade its 5% maximum per year up and down.

 

Extension information 1:
"A team may extend and trade a player within these rules. An extension-and-trade is allowed if (i) the contract covers no more than 3 seasons (including any years remaining in the original contract), (ii) the salary in the first year of the extended term is no more than 105% of the salary in the last year of the original term, and (iii) the annual salary increases are no more than 5% of the salary in the first season covered by the extended term.
EXTENSION-AND-TRADES

• To prevent teams from getting around these limitations, teams cannot trade any player that signs an extension covering more than 3 seasons, a higher salary, or with larger annual increases for the next 6 months.

• Similarly, if a team receives a player in a trade, then for the next 6 months following that trade the team cannot sign the player to an extension that would violate the limitations for an extension-and-trade transaction."

 

Now lets look at all Extension rules.

Extension information 2:

"Extensions are amendments to a contract that add seasons to the contract’s existing term. Summarized below are some of the general rules around extensions, followed by a breakdown of four categories of extensions: (1) a “regular” extension of a rookie’s Rookie Scale Contract, (2) a Designated Rookie Scale Player Extension, (3) a “regular” extension of a veteran’s contract, and (4) a Designated Veteran Player Extension.

• General Rules —

  • Contracts covering 1 or 2 seasons (including any option year) cannot be extended.

  • Contracts covering 3 or 4 seasons (including any option year) may be extended on the second anniversary of being signed.

  • Contracts covering 5 or 6 seasons (including any option year) may be extended on the third anniversary of being signed."

 

Now lets look at Veteran specific extension rules:

 

Extension information 3:

"Extensions of Veteran Contracts —

• Regular Extensions — Unless a veteran’s contract is going to be extended during the last season of his contract, the extension can only be negotiated and entered into during the off-season (i.e., July 1 to the day before the regular season).

  • A regular extension of a veteran’s contract may cover 5 years (including the years remaining on the original contract when the extension is signed).

  • The player’s salary in the first year of the extension may be up to the greater of: (i) 120% of the player’s salary in the last year of the original contract, and (ii) 120% of the estimated average player salary in the year the extension is signed. Salary may increase (or decrease) in the extended term by up to 8% (instead of 5%) of the salary in the first year of the extension."

 

 

[thecampster]

The reality is that if Hayward is extended by Boston and traded we would need Hayward to waive his trade kicker and we would have to accept 3 years of salary total at greater than $30 million per season.

If we traded for Hayward but were allowed to negotiated we could knock another Million off of that max at 92% of his salary.

 

Best thing is trade for him and try to sign him after the season when you can sign for anything.

https://cbabreakdown.com/#/contract-types/

[marco102]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Can the people who are enamored with edwards please explain why they are glossing over these disturbing facts?

If this were a year or two ago, where no one cared if we won, I'd be ok with spending (wasting?) the years it'll take to teach him basketball.  But we're not at that point anymore.

I'm not saying we have to cash it all in to try to be a contender.  But we certainly need to start looking like a competent team right now.  Can't do that force-feeding offense (even as a reserve) to a guy who can't dribble (ding, ding, ding, why are yall ignoring this too?  He settled for long jumpers in college for a reason people.  Guess what, the NBA has even better defenders) and can't shoot.

My problem with this is, you are indicating that we are just oooh he's from GA and he's blah blah blah.  No, anyone we draft is going to be a bench player.  In a bench role, Edwards can contribute to winning.  If you have a Gordon Heyward ahead of him, it's perfect.  Gives him real NBA minutes, allows the coaches to pull him when he's making mistakes and for him to learn from those mistakes.  

I understand your concerns, but you are indicating this pick HAS to contribute to winning now, but it really doesn't.  We have time to let the 6th pick grow.  

I agree Edwards has major flaws, but so did Trae and Cam.  I look at the flashes of what Edwards shows.  When you look at the game tape the putrid does outweigh the flashes you see.  However, when you consider, he's only been playing basketball seriously for 4 or 5 years. He's made tremendous strides in his game.  With Edwards it's not about the talent, it's teaching him how to play team ball. I'm more confident in our team's ability to do that in a limited role his first few years. 

I believe you need to take a look in the mirror on this one and see whose biases are outweighing their good judgement here. 

Edited November 7, 2020 by marco102

[JayBirdHawk]

9 minutes ago, thecampster said:

See below:

We will use Hayward as an example:

 

Hayward has 1 year left on his contact if he opts in at $34,187,085.

The rule is no more than 105% with 5% increases. He could be extended up to 2 more years (see part 2) at a max salary of $35,896,439.25 and $37,691,261.21.

I believe the 5% less than rule also applies.  If it does then the decrease max would be $32,477,730.75 year one and $30,853,844.21.  First, lets look at Extension and trade.

As I read the rules, if it is an extension its 8% max up or down (See part 3).  If its an Extension and Trade its 5% maximum per year up and down.

 

Extension information 1:
"A team may extend and trade a player within these rules. An extension-and-trade is allowed if (i) the contract covers no more than 3 seasons (including any years remaining in the original contract), (ii) the salary in the first year of the extended term is no more than 105% of the salary in the last year of the original term, and (iii) the annual salary increases are no more than 5% of the salary in the first season covered by the extended term.
EXTENSION-AND-TRADES

• To prevent teams from getting around these limitations, teams cannot trade any player that signs an extension covering more than 3 seasons, a higher salary, or with larger annual increases for the next 6 months.

• Similarly, if a team receives a player in a trade, then for the next 6 months following that trade the team cannot sign the player to an extension that would violate the limitations for an extension-and-trade transaction."

 

Now lets look at all Extension rules.

Extension information 2:

"Extensions are amendments to a contract that add seasons to the contract’s existing term. Summarized below are some of the general rules around extensions, followed by a breakdown of four categories of extensions: (1) a “regular” extension of a rookie’s Rookie Scale Contract, (2) a Designated Rookie Scale Player Extension, (3) a “regular” extension of a veteran’s contract, and (4) a Designated Veteran Player Extension.

• General Rules —

  • Contracts covering 1 or 2 seasons (including any option year) cannot be extended.

  • Contracts covering 3 or 4 seasons (including any option year) may be extended on the second anniversary of being signed.

  • Contracts covering 5 or 6 seasons (including any option year) may be extended on the third anniversary of being signed."

 

Now lets look at Veteran specific extension rules:

 

Extension information 3:

"Extensions of Veteran Contracts —

• Regular Extensions — Unless a veteran’s contract is going to be extended during the last season of his contract, the extension can only be negotiated and entered into during the off-season (i.e., July 1 to the day before the regular season).

  • A regular extension of a veteran’s contract may cover 5 years (including the years remaining on the original contract when the extension is signed).

  • The player’s salary in the first year of the extension may be up to the greater of: (i) 120% of the player’s salary in the last year of the original contract, and (ii) 120% of the estimated average player salary in the year the extension is signed. Salary may increase (or decrease) in the extended term by up to 8% (instead of 5%) of the salary in the first year of the extension."

 

 

Clear as mud!  Lol, I kid. Thanks for the info.  Makes sense.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The reality is that if Hayward is extended by Boston and traded we would need Hayward to waive his trade kicker and we would have to accept 3 years of salary total at greater than $30 million per season.

If we traded for Hayward but were allowed to negotiated we could knock another Million off of that max at 92% of his salary.

 

Best thing is trade for him and try to sign him after the season when you can sign for anything.

https://cbabreakdown.com/#/contract-types/

At that salary, that would ruin the other plans for Atlanta and then he would be vastly overpaid. I understand you are just showing all options possible via the cba but this would work against Atlanta. 

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The reality is that if Hayward is extended by Boston and traded we would need Hayward to waive his trade kicker and we would have to accept 3 years of salary total at greater than $30 million per season.

If we traded for Hayward but were allowed to negotiated we could knock another Million off of that max at 92% of his salary.

 

Best thing is trade for him and try to sign him after the season when you can sign for anything.

https://cbabreakdown.com/#/contract-types/

Any type of trade if Hayward would work against Atlanta 

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The reality is that if Hayward is extended by Boston and traded we would need Hayward to waive his trade kicker and we would have to accept 3 years of salary total at greater than $30 million per season.

If we traded for Hayward but were allowed to negotiated we could knock another Million off of that max at 92% of his salary.

 

Best thing is trade for him and try to sign him after the season when you can sign for anything.

https://cbabreakdown.com/#/contract-types/

Trade what? Not trading #6 or core pieces.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

At that salary, that would ruin the other plans for Atlanta and then he would be vastly overpaid. I understand you are just showing all options possible via the cba but this would work against Atlanta. 

The overriding thing he's pointing out it that Hayward's existing contract should not be extended.

Ideally, you want him to opt out and resign for less in year 1 vs trading at $34 then resign since it would limit our spending with his $34 mil for this season.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Trade what? Not trading #6 or core pieces.

It would be for capspace and a fake 2nd. Boston gets a TPE.