Thoughts on Okongwu?

[KB21]

22 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I really want to see more PnR finishing ability. He really looked good at it in college. Not sure why it's not translating. JC PnR finishing showed when he was a rookie to a degree

It's going to sound like excuses, but he's young.  His freshman year at USC got cut short due to the pandemic.  He didn't get the chance to have an off season in a NBA program.  He was set back by a foot injury.  

[NBASupes]

Just now, KB21 said:

It's going to sound like excuses, but he's young.  His freshman year at USC got cut short due to the pandemic.  He didn't get the chance to have an off season in a NBA program.  He was set back by a foot injury.  

I agree with you. It seems like all of these rookie big man were hampered by COVID more than others. I also notice the unpolished players are playing worse than usual. 

[KB21]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

I agree with you. It seems like all of these rookie big man were hampered by COVID more than others. I also notice the unpolished players are playing worse than usual. 

True.  IMO, both Cam and Okongwu will be fine long term.  Patience just has to be exhibited.  

[bleachkit]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

True.  IMO, both Cam and Okongwu will be fine long term.  Patience just has to be exhibited.  

What is your definition of "will be fine." Tell me the statistical metrics you expect from them once they are "fine."

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

What is your definition of "will be fine." Tell me the statistical metrics you expect from them once they are "fine."

I think both players will make a Hunter-like jump when it comes to the stats that measure a players contribution to winning.  

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I think both players will make a Hunter-like jump when it comes to the stats that measure a players contribution to winning.  

wow, that's a pretty high bar. 

[AHF]

2 hours ago, bleachkit said:

wow, that's a pretty high bar. 

I'm not sure he means a jump to the level that Hunter was at pre-injury this season so much as a jump that reflects dramatic increase in value.  If Cam started consistently playing like he did in Jan - Mar 2020, he would have already made that jump even if that level was not as high a mark as Hunter's pre-injury 2020-21 minutes.  

Cam has been bad enough that he can make a huge improvement and be a significant contributor to the team and still not reach Hunter's level, for example.  Same with OO given his very limited contributions this season (to date).

Next season you will see Cam playing at the same age that Hunter did as a rookie.  The season after that, Cam will be playing at the same age as Hunter this season.  It is a similar situation for OO (just add a year).  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 2/14/2021 at 12:39 PM, Buzzard said:

Pierce is coaching for his job now. Translation, even if its a horrible match up the 11 year vet Gallinari is going to get the big man minutes off the bench. The main rotation has been Capela, Collins, Gallinari. Pierce is killing me with his small ball BS. I predicted at the beginning of the season he will live and die by it.

He got lucky with our hot start. That saved his ass for the first 20 games. I think the luck has played out now. Hunter is irreplaceable but Gallinari is not. He really needs to play more traditional at the center spot. Give Collins a rest at the five and try to develop Okongwu and Fernando,

Given that we are 3 and 7 over our last 10, I honestly don't see how getting off the small ball strategy will hurt.

You are correct that LP shortened his bench because he probably knows his job is on the line now.  But it's the 4th player in that "big man" lineup, that is the problem.  And that's Solomon Hill.  The other problem is that Collins is significantly reduced when he has to play center against the top 15 guys in the league.

LP was playing it exactly right to start the season, when he was giving Bruno spot minutes between quarters.  Let Bruno take the hits and battle the bigger guys on defense, which will preserve Collins.   I'm even down for playing Bruno in the 1st half, and Okongwu in the 2nd half, just to keep both guys active and engaged for at least 4 to 6 minutes a night.

 

PF - Collins  ( 26 ) - Gallinari ( 18 ) - Hill ( 4 )

C - Capela ( 32 ) - Bruno ( 5 ) - Okongwu ( 5 ) - Collins ( 6 )  . . because LP won't resist it

[macdaddy]

8 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

You are correct that LP shortened his bench because he probably knows his job is on the line now.  But it's the 4th player in that "big man" lineup, that is the problem.  And that's Solomon Hill.  The other problem is that Collins is significantly reduced when he has to play center against the top 15 guys in the league.

LP was playing it exactly right to start the season, when he was giving Bruno spot minutes between quarters.  Let Bruno take the hits and battle the bigger guys on defense, which will preserve Collins.   I'm even down for playing Bruno in the 1st half, and Okongwu in the 2nd half, just to keep both guys active and engaged for at least 4 to 6 minutes a night.

 

PF - Collins  ( 26 ) - Gallinari ( 18 ) - Hill ( 4 )

C - Capela ( 32 ) - Bruno ( 5 ) - Okongwu ( 5 ) - Collins ( 6 )  . . because LP won't resist it

So far I just haven't seen much from Bruno.  I don't claim to be a good judge of these types of role players at all but Bruno still doesn't seem to see any of the court other than the ball.    I hope i'm wrong.   Honestly i'm just not seeing at this point how Bruno is getting minutes over Knight.     

But to the larger point I think we have to start putting OO in the real rotation for the sake of winning later on.  It's not like we're winning now anyway. 

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

So far I just haven't seen much from Bruno.  I don't claim to be a good judge of these types of role players at all but Bruno still doesn't seem to see any of the court other than the ball.    I hope i'm wrong.   Honestly i'm just not seeing at this point how Bruno is getting minutes over Knight.     

But to the larger point I think we have to start putting OO in the real rotation for the sake of winning later on.  It's not like we're winning now anyway. 

From what I see, Bruno's is playing reactionary versus anticipatory basketball more often that not - the game is still moving too fast for him.  On offense he's unsure what he wants to do when the ball comes to him in scoring position, he can't be the next 'Stone Hands Len'.  Every now and then you can see his ability to see the play and make a pass.  On team defense - lost, but he uses his big body well one v one.

[macdaddy]

46 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

From what I see, Bruno's is playing reactionary versus anticipatory basketball more often that not - the game is still moving too fast for him.  On offense he's unsure what he wants to do when the ball comes to him in scoring position, he can't be the next 'Stone Hands Len'.  Every now and then you can see his ability to see the play and make a pass.  On team defense - lost, but he uses his big body well one v one.

Yes.  All this being the case it's hard to imagine him becoming a rotation player.  We've seen this story before unfortunately.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

So far I just haven't seen much from Bruno.  I don't claim to be a good judge of these types of role players at all but Bruno still doesn't seem to see any of the court other than the ball.    I hope i'm wrong.   Honestly i'm just not seeing at this point how Bruno is getting minutes over Knight.     

But to the larger point I think we have to start putting OO in the real rotation for the sake of winning later on.  It's not like we're winning now anyway. 

I think Knight could take ALL of Solo's minutes, if given the chance to be a stretch 4.  But playing Knight over Bruno and Okongwu, still means that Collins plays center.   If you put Knight at center, I don't know if he's physical enough on the inside to hold his ground vs stronger centers.  At any rate, playing Collins extended minutes at center, without another big man who can do the dirty work, has shown to be a recipe for disaster.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[macdaddy]

So far I'm not thrilled we took him #6 but he sure as hell should be playing more.   You can see in his few minutes that he's better than our other options 

[bleachkit]

14 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Could you post the story if you dont mind, thanks.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

Quote

Okongwu has struggled to catch up with the rest of the Hawks because he didn’t have a Summer League, training camp or preseason, and because this season is so weird and condensed, practice time is hard to come by. The team doesn’t have morning shootarounds on game days like it normally would because of the COVID-19 testing it has to do and the restrictions the league has in place.

That’s made being a rookie who entered the league injured even more challenging than it normally would be.

“It’s been very difficult to get up to speed because it’s tough to get into the gym as much as you can because of COVID,” Okongwu said. “It was tough for me to get in the best shape — and I’m still not in the best shape. I’m still getting better every single day. I feel like if I was able to get in the gym more, I’d be more up to speed than where I’m at right now.

“I’m at a good pace right now, in terms of game shape. I do feel like I can and will get way better. I definitely feel like I can get better with more workouts, more repetitions just to get in game shape like I know I can.”

Okongwu said he arrived in Atlanta out of basketball shape, needing to lose weight mainly because of his foot injury but also because he hadn’t played a game since February 2020. He worked out all spring and summer doing individual workouts, but those don’t have the same effect as playing an actual game. He wasn’t cleared to practice until late December because of his foot injury.

When Okongwu did see the floor for the first few times for the Hawks, it was clear he was unsure of himself and where he should be on both ends of the floor. It’s still a learning process for him now. Two weeks ago, Okongwu said he pulled aside Danilo Gallinari before the Knicks game and asked him if he ever had a problem overthinking. Gallinari told him that, yes, most players go through this stage early in their careers where you just don’t feel sure of yourself. John Collins said he didn’t feel comfortable until after the All-Star break in his rookie season. Trae Young said it took a few months for him to feel OK. The message to Okongwu was to just relax and trust in the abilities that got you to this point.

 

Quote

Solomon Hill recently told Okongwu how he needed to hang his hat on rebounding and knowing his defensive positioning to get out on the floor more than he has so far. That’s what Okongwu has done for his entire basketball career. His former coach Ron Austin told Okongwu when he was 5 years old that bad offensive games happen, but you should never have a bad day on defense. “Even if players aren’t scoring a lot or touching the ball a lot, there’s no excuse to not give it your all on defense because it’s a pride, effort, energy and mental thing out there,” Okongwu would recall Austin saying.

 

[Spud2nique]

He needs to play more. That’s on loser Lloyd.

[Spud2nique]

Okongwu is smiling FREE AT LAST!!!

[Gray Mule]

Could it be possible?  Maybe, just maybe, Agent OO17 may prove to us that our 1st round draft pick wasn't a real Bo Bo.  Apparently he's now well enough to show us what he can do.

We need what we thought we were getting when we drafted him.  Our new coach may be the one who brings out the best of him.  With our other injured players coming back, perhaps the Hawks will now be able to advance their cause.  Hopefully, that playoff spot is still a reality.

GO ATL HAWKS !!!!!!!!!!!

[macdaddy]

13 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Could it be possible?  Maybe, just maybe, Agent OO17 may prove to us that our 1st round draft pick wasn't a real Bo Bo.  Apparently he's now well enough to show us what he can do.

We need what we thought we were getting when we drafted him.  Our new coach may be the one who brings out the best of him.  With our other injured players coming back, perhaps the Hawks will now be able to advance their cause.  Hopefully, that playoff spot is still a reality.

GO ATL HAWKS !!!!!!!!!!!

I've really liked what i've seen from him.  Dude is strong.   He's that guy that you think isn't going to be strong but then lifts more than guys a lot bigger.