Thoughts on Okongwu?

[bleachkit]

28 minutes ago, Carmine said:

OO starting to get more comfortable and has a more defined role with Nate in charge. Why I never took those "did we make the right pick" post seriously. Meanwhile in GS, fans already having buyer's remorse. We got the best big in the draft.

One good game and you're ready to declare victory? Come on, that's ridiculous homerism. 

[Carmine]

46 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

One good game and you're ready to declare victory? Come on, that's ridiculous homerism. 

Victory? From a fan perspective, I can see the formula for an impact player is there. High energy/movement, Lou doing a good job of rewarding OO. Finishes at a high level. Actually boxes out & doesn't fight teammates for rebounds. Rim protection & ability to switch on wings another +. Even if he doesn't develop playmaking skills or an outside shot this version of OO is a damn good player.

[sturt]

Fwiw.... Wiseman has been better than I, for one, had figured he'd be in his first year. Against us, he wasn't as fragile as I has surmised he'd probably be. I don't rule out Big O developing into something special, but I'm more confident in Dr. J doing so, for now.

(And why yes, you did detect a form of sarcasm in that last sentence.  )

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Fwiw.... Wiseman has been better than I, for one, had figured he'd be in his first year. Against us, he wasn't as fragile as I has surmised he'd probably be. I don't rule out Big O developing into something special, but I'm more confident in Dr. J doing so, for now.

(And why yes, you did detect a form of sarcasm in that last sentence.  )

Wiseman's size and athleticism is kinda freakish. Big OO is going to have to use more craft and guile. 

[terrell]

42 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Wiseman's size and athleticism is kinda freakish. Big OO is going to have to use more craft and guile. 

And yet he's a horrible defender....He's young though..Just sayin..

[bleachkit]

12 minutes ago, terrell said:

And yet he's a horrible defender....He's young though..Just sayin..

OO is gonna be solid on defense.

[terrell]

24 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

OO is gonna be solid on defense.

Im talking about Wiseman..lol

[EazyRoc]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

And yet he's a horrible defender....He's young though..Just sayin..

Yeah most young bigs aren’t good defensively. His tools are elite. How far he goes is simply up to work ethic and coaching

[ATLHawks3]

Wiseman has the higher ceiling, while OO has the higher floor. I expect both to be solid players 5+ years from now.

[AHF]

11 hours ago, ATLHawks3 said:

Wiseman has the higher ceiling, while OO has the higher floor. I expect both to be solid players 5+ years from now.

I actually think Wiseman has the higher floor as well.  His scoring and rebounding means if he never gets a bit better than what we have seen from him over the full season that he will have a solid place in a team's rotation for the rest of his career somewhat similar to Kanter.  If OO never gets better than his full season play, he will be at the end of someone's bench.

Wiseman has put up 11.4 points, 5.8 rebounds and 1.3 blocks + steals which prorates to 18.6 points, 9.1 rebounds and 2.1 b+s per 36 this season.  OO has put up 3.4 points, 2.7 rebounds and 0.9 b+s per game which prorates to 12.6 points, 10.6 rebounds and 3.5 b+s per 36.

I think both guys will improve a lot and have bright futures ahead.  

[Spud2nique]

My boy made out game preview cover vs the Pels today!   #beastieboi
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNU4YaUA6r7/?igshid=yr6mkoszy1ma

 

[Gray Mule]

13 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

My boy made out game preview cover vs the Pels today!   #beastieboi
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNU4YaUA6r7/?igshid=yr6mkoszy1ma

 

Agent 0017 has shown growth since Lou came and "took him under his wing!"  Showing him some of the little things that he needs to know and do.  Planning for them to work together when they are in a game together as second team members.

[sturt]

14 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Agent 0017

The more I think about it, the more I really like that agent-double-o-seven-teen thing better than double-o... though I have to say I can imagine OO... ie, "oh-oh"... becoming a thing... kinda like, Dikembe's finger wag, but instead, when the new guy blocks a shot, the crowd in unison bellows a loud "oh-ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!" Right? Or, as he's going up for a slam, the same... "oh-ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh!"... hehe

Of course, I've been using King Okong for awhile now, and Hawks front office appears to be (oblivously) committed to Big O.

What other nominations are out there?

Gwu? (Um. I suppose. But I confess I don't get the appeal of that one.)

Once we have nominations, we need a HS poll to once and for all settle this thing. (Unless you already did that, and I wasn't paying attention, of course.)

 

[Atlantaholic]

He has looked a lot better lately. Still worried about his size, I don't think he can be a center being an inch taller than Snell.

[macdaddy]

42 minutes ago, sturt said:

The more I think about it, the more I really like that agent-double-o-seven-teen thing better than double-o... though I have to say I can imagine OO... ie, "oh-oh"... becoming a thing... kinda like, Dikembe's finger wag, but instead, when the new guy blocks a shot, the crowd in unison bellows a loud "oh-ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!" Right? Or, as he's going up for a slam, the same... "oh-ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh!"... hehe

Of course, I've been using King Okong for awhile now, and Hawks front office appears to be (oblivously) committed to Big O.

What other nominations are out there?

Gwu? (Um. I suppose. But I confess I don't get the appeal of that one.)

Once we have nominations, we need a HS poll to once and for all settle this thing. (Unless you already did that, and I wasn't paying attention, of course.)

 

Well #7 freed up with Rondo leaving so seems like he should embrace the OO7 while he has the chance.

[macdaddy]

22 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

He has looked a lot better lately. Still worried about his size, I don't think he can be a center being an inch taller than Snell.

I think his wingspan and lower body strength makes it possible.   Because height measurements were fudged for so long i don't think there are a ton of 7 footers that are any good anymore.   Embiid, Gobert are monsters for sure but even Dwight is listed at 6'10" now. 

[bleachkit]

34 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I think his wingspan and lower body strength makes it possible.   Because height measurements were fudged for so long i don't think there are a ton of 7 footers that are any good anymore.   Embiid, Gobert are monsters for sure but even Dwight is listed at 6'10" now. 

At one time Kevin Durant was listed at 6'9", and DeMarcus Cousins was listed at 7'0". Standing side by side Durant is like 2 inches taller. They really just let them choose their own heights.

[RandomFan]

How Onyeka Okongwu’s high school battle with Zion Williamson foreshadowed Hawks rookie’s bright future

https://theathletic.com/2502604/2021/04/07/how-okongwus-high-school-battle-with-zion-foreshadowed-hawks-rookies-bright-future/

By Chris Kirschner and Jared Weiss Apr 7, 2021

Quote

 

Chino Hills and Spartanburg Day met in the Hoophall Classic three years ago, and it featured two future NBA big men in Hawks rookie Onyeka Okongwu and Pelicans star Zion Williamson. Most of the attention was on Williamson that day, as he was the most recognizable high school basketball player in the social media era thus far.

The Athletic’s Jared Weiss was in attendance covering the game as a reporter and came away more impressed with the Okongwu, who was a junior for Chino Hills. Since that game, Weiss has been one of Okongwu’s staunchest believers in his NBA potential.

With the Hawks and Pelicans playing each other on Tuesday night and Okongwu starting to show why Atlanta drafted him sixth overall this past cycle, I brought in Weiss to dissect Okongwu’s performance that night, why he’s been a believer in the Hawks rookie for several years now and why Okongwu could be the pillar of the team’s defense for the years to come.

Here’s our conversation.

Chris Kirschner: Jared, I feel like now is a good time to get into Okongwu’s game and his development over the past few years. After a slow start to his rookie season, which he detailed here, he’s starting to get in a groove and he admitted just a few days ago how he feels like he’s getting more comfortable on the floor. It’s a small sample size, but the past few games have been the best he’s played since being drafted by Atlanta.

I know you’ve been high on Okongwu for several years now and have been wanting the Hawks to unleash him in full. What originally intrigued you about his game, and with the Pelicans and Hawks playing on Tuesday night, I know you have an Okongwu-Zion story to share, as well.

Jared Weiss: Sometimes you see a player in person for the first time and you’re just suddenly captivated. The beauty of the Hoophall Classic that is held in Springfield, Mass. every MLK weekend is that you’re almost guaranteed to have that happen at least once over the course of that tournament. They bring in just about every high school star in the country and on January 14, 2018, we got to see Chino Hills take on Spartanburg. That was originally supposed to be LaMelo Ball vs. Zion, but the Balls had already bounced from Chino Hills by then.

It was a letdown for the hundreds of aspiring Tik Tokkers in the stands that day, but I was excited to see if Okongwu could step up and handle Williamson. It ended up being one of the rare times where I saw a player get outscored by an opponent and thought they clearly won the battle. Watching Williamson’s team go up against such a deeply talented program like Chino Hills was so fascinating because his teammates were mostly just your average public school basketball player, so it looked like the Toon Squad versus the Monstars — though Williamson made most Monstars look tiny in comparison.

This ended up being one of the best battles I’ve ever seen in person at any level, with Williamson and Okongwu meeting at the rim over and over. I came away from that game convinced Williamson was going to become the next Giannis Antetokounmpo and reshape the game as a point center, though so far his defense has been horrendous compared to what he was doing in this game. But Okongwu immediately vaulted into the top 10 of his class for me. He reminded me a lot of Kenyon Martin, Sr., a tremendous athlete with great body control, a relentless motor and terrific instincts on both ends.

He’s coming into the league just at the right time, as the league is swinging back to using vertical spacing centers to roll through the paint as long as they can switch on the perimeter and pass the ball well. I’m confident Okongwu is going to turn into that Bam Adebayo style of player to the point that I had him ranked on my second tier of prospects this year, just below LaMelo Ball and ahead of James Wiseman.

Kirschner: I laughed out loud at your aspiring Tik Tokkers line. A professional Tik Tokker can somehow make millions of dollars to post mindless content. What a life!

I didn’t watch Okongwu in high school. Because I’m a night owl, I did watch a lot of his games in college at USC. Like you, with the way the game is trending for big men in the NBA, I thought Okongwu could blossom into the kind of center you’d want on your roster.

Zion was obviously the main attraction in high school and the prospect with the most hype, but you said you came away thinking Okongwu won the individual battle.

What did you see to make you believe that and what captivated you enough to immediately believe he was a top 10 prospect?

Weiss: His competitiveness jumped out first and foremost. A lot of players will come into a big matchup and want to slap the floor, make some noise and show everyone they are going to make this a battle. Then they kind of fade when the ball isn’t in their hands or across from them.

“Yeah, I wasn’t backing down from it,” he told me about the Williamson matchup after that game. “That’s not who I am. I’m not afraid of anyone. When I found out I was guarding Zion, I just took it like a man.”

Okongwu stayed engaged throughout every possession in a way that made it clear his game was going to translate. That really showed in his defensive versatility. He was mostly the anchor in a 2-3 zone, but was getting pulled in a lot of directions because Spartanburg had a 6-foot-6 guy named Matthew Brown who could attack the rim if Okongwu pulled out too far to protect the lane from Williamson. He just did a fantastic job controlling the pivot, keeping his head on a swivel to make sure he was shading toward Williamson before rotating into position to erase anything at the paint.

He had five blocks in that game and at least as many contests to force misses right at the rim. He just already had ideal technique for getting early position and going up straight without swiping at the ball. Most centers take years in the league before they can figure that out, but he was already doing it as a junior in high school.

There were even some impressive verticality contests with Williamson where the Pelicans star somehow finished through him. The best one was where Williamson drove middle and Okongwu stepped forward and went straight up to shut down the drive. But somehow Williamson threw up this lefty underhand floater and it dropped. His singular finishing ability was probably the only reason why this game was even competitive.

What really sold it were the times Okongwu ended up covering out in space. You could see how nimble his feet were for a center that is so powerful in the air. He moves with a low and wide base and has incredibly fluid hips for a center. Just like a cornerback covering a post route, being a center defending up high in the pick-and-roll requires you to be able to flip your stance around without losing speed or balance.

This was three years ago, when the up-and-coming star centers in the league were mostly post scorers that could shoot like Joel Embiid, Karl-Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis. At that point, we were still trying to figure out how can teams justify drafting a center in the top 10 if he wasn’t going to be the hub of your offense. Watching Okongwu and Williamson made it clear you either can go with a shorter but powerful ball handling playmaker in the Draymond Green mold like Williamson, or a rim runner that could dominate the air space in the paint and still be able to switch across the board like Okongwu.

Kirschner: Your point about drafting a center in the top 10 is a good launch point for the next point of our conversation. The Hawks, obviously, took Okongwu sixth overall in this past draft.

Atlanta got in on Okongwu late in the process, mainly because general manager Travis Schlenk did not scout him in person at any point during the draft cycle. Schlenk went to one USC game, and Okongwu happened to be sitting out. He then had plans to be at the Pac-12 conference tournament, and it ended up being canceled because of the pandemic. So, if the Hawks were going to draft him, they were doing so based on the full trust in their regional scouts and directors of player personnel.

Okongwu actually mentioned to me how he had been in communication with several teams by the time Atlanta first reached out.

I thought the pick was an interesting one because the team had traded for Clint Capela the previous deadline and he is under contract until 2023. Going into the draft, I thought the team should have addressed the need of another ball handler/off-ball guard who could play alongside Trae Young, which is why I believed Tyrese Haliburton made the most sense. Haliburton has been great for the Kings and might end up winning Rookie of the Year.

Long term, what do you view as the best possible outcome for the Hawks’ center rotation and what do you think Okongwu offers them that Capela either can’t or is limited in?

Weiss: I admire Schlenk’s willingness to draft Okongwu right after making that Capela trade. Few GMs in the league would have the stomach to potentially undercut a key decision of theirs so soon, especially someone who doesn’t have tenure in their position like a first-time GM three years into the job at that point. I was torn between Okongwu and Haliburton on my board but had Okongwu slightly ahead, especially for one of the most heliocentric teams in the league.

Giving Young a high-end pick-and-roll partner who can be the ultimate backstop on the other end to cover up for him was the team’s highest priority now that they have too many wings on the team. They already had too many before they brought in their vets this summer, though I seem to value Kevin Huerter and Cam Reddish more than the Hawks do.

I’m sure all of the Hawks fans reading this either did the Michael Scott thank you gif out loud or are screaming about the Capela erasure at this point. Capela deserves credit for being an impactful rim runner against teams that defend up on Young pick-and-rolls and he can be a nightmare on the offensive glass. But he has some fundamental flaws on defense that make me think he’s close to his ceiling already — and he hasn’t improved much since his breakout season in Houston. I wrote a story about Capela’s marionette defense before he was traded from Houston, and I haven’t seen much since to indicate things have changed.

So it makes sense to bring Okongwu up behind him and eventually pivot off of Capela when his deal expires. It gives Okongwu some runway to develop in one of the hardest center roles in the NBA, considering the enormous defensive responsibility, and see if Capela can put it all together and become the force he is capable of. But Okongwu just glides on the perimeter with ease, is so much more disciplined and tough, and can be the source of energy that drives the defense. He can become the tone setter for a team that badly needs it at that end.

Okongwu is going to be able to switch across the board, even on to point guards eventually.

He’s just athletic enough to pull it off and is going to be so much better defending up to touch on screens than Capela, who really only seems to do well when in a deep drop scheme. And I think we’re going to see in the playoffs this year Atlanta’s first round opponent start to figure out how to get around Capela and get him into foul trouble a few games into the series, shining a light on these shortcomings. Maybe he grows past it, but I’m pretty confident Okongwu is going to be the kind of center whose defense controls a playoff series.

Kirschner: I think Capela, overall, has been really solid defensively this season. He’s done exactly what the Hawks have wanted him to do. A lot of what the Hawks do on that end of the floor is just them trying to feed the ball into the paint where Capela waits. That has led to Capela having his highest block rate in his career. Opponents are shooting 60.6 percent at the rim when Capela is on the floor, per Cleaning The Glass.

I’ve mentioned before how I think Capela has been impactful on defense but, like you, I do worry about how he’d look in a playoff series where it’s easier to make him less of a force than he’s been in the regular season. That’s what the Warriors did to him in the playoffs when he was with the Rockets. I don’t think Okongwu is ready yet to be a truly meaningful player in a playoff series if the Hawks get there this year, which I think they will, to see the true benefits of what having someone like him can bring for this team long term.

I know the Adebayo comparison gets thrown around a lot for Okongwu, as we already mentioned him earlier in this back-and-forth. My final question for you is a two-parter: Given that this team is clearly building around Young, what do you think Okongwu’s ceiling can be on the Hawks and what do you see as the best possible lineup the Hawks could surround him with for him to be the most impactful he can be?

Weiss: To Capela’s credit, the conversation around his defense should start with the fact that he currently ranks 12th in defensive field goal differential on shots inside 10 feet, per NBA Stats. Players are shooting 8.4 percent worse when trying to shoot over him in the paint, which is impressive. The stat isn’t surprising, as it’s obvious that when he is in position that he’s almost impossible to shoot over and he has improved his hand-eye coordination to turn more fouls into blocks. But the problems are more about how offenses can work around that and when we definitely see the Hawks in at least the play-in game this spring, we’ll hopefully get a better idea of how he can survive the cat-and-mouse game of playoff adjustments.

But to your Okongwu question, recognizing that it would be a miracle if he had a significant impact in the playoffs this early in his career, John Collins’ free agency is going to say a lot about what comes next for the rookie center. Collins has really improved his help side and pick-and-roll defense this year, enough that it works in a scheme around Capela as a deep dropper. I think they have found one stable defensive scheme that works for them, while obviously they can blitz and trap, but that is unsustainable. Okongwu can give them the scheme flexibility they need to become a higher-level defense without sacrificing their offensive potency, bringing them up to the next level of contention.

We’re seeing already that Okongwu is able to sweep across the pivot so smoothly that in situations where Capela is going all out for the block or reaching and swatting — which is often successful because of his amazing reach — Okongwu is getting to the spot early and going vertical.

He is one of those bigs that truly understand how to use their height, realizing that when the ball is on the floor, you want to get low and only need to get tall when the ball is going in the air. You see it when he stays low and wide when guarding the post, but then expands to go straight up when the offensive player goes into his shot. As the competition committee works on amending the verticality rules for next season to hopefully give even more power to rock solid centers like Okongwu, this should make him even more effective.

The other thing that’s been very impressive is how quick and delicate his hands are on defense. He does such a good job against players facing up on him with putting his hands up in their face without making contact as they try to swing their arms around to draw fouls. He can poke at balls without fouling and has great hand-eye coordination so he can keep his arm extended above his head on a contest and get a finger on the ball without making contact with the offensive player’s arm. That’s incredibly tough to pull off, as most shot blockers have to swat at the ball from an angle to get clean contact. He’s just such a refined and nuanced player at a position where it’s really easy not to be.

I want to see them pay Collins and try to make this frontcourt of De’Andre Hunter, Collins and Okongwu work long-term. Hunter should be a substantial enough wing defender that he can take on the primary assignment most nights while Collins gets the help side assignment and Okongwu flies around in the middle. There aren’t many teams having defensive success with a traditional power forward at the four right now, but Collins has active enough feet and hands to believe it can work.

Atlanta will need another strong defender at the two to get to the contender level and maybe that can turn into Cam Reddish. It’s hard to tell what their wing rotation is supposed to be long-term with all the moves they’ve made as of late. But I do think Okongwu can give them enough defensive fluidity to take the burden off the perimeter talent to be elite ball stoppers across the arc. It’s why he could end up being their second or third most important player when this team hits its peak. It’s why the Hawks have championship promise in the future.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by RandomFan

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 4/4/2021 at 10:17 PM, ATLHawks3 said:

Wiseman has the higher ceiling, while OO has the higher floor. I expect both to be solid players 5+ years from now.

Wiseman is going to be a borderline All-Star in 2 years.  That kid has major talent that is just being tapped into.

If he played with a PG like Trae, Wiseman would instantly be ROY, even over Lamelo.  Trae would make the game so easy for him.

[MarylandHawk]

Did yall see that ally oop OO17 caught last night?  I though Lou was passing it across court to the corner three point shooter because it was so high and fast. But OO17 came out of nowhere and caught the ball at it’s peak and almost broke the rim! His athleticism is off the charts!