Thoughts on Okongwu?

[macdaddy]

I certainly didn't really understand what role he'd play in the NBA but now i get it.   His reach and his strength make him play so much bigger than his height.   Very Elton Brand like in that respect.  

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Think of it like this.

What if people started calling Miles Bridges, "The Human Highlight Film"?

Or we started calling Trae Young "The Answer"?

I think this topic would take on an entirely different meaning.

 

You get a pep talk from Stu too?  

[sturt]

A premise that somehow gets too easily underappreciated almost every time there's a discussion about having too much quality and only five starter slots to fit that quality into is... practically every team has a 9-10 man rotation. It's not until you have so many exceptional talents that #11-#15 are pouting on the bench that that's even a real thing worthy of concern.

To no one in particular, then...

You need Capela, you need Collins, and then you also need at least two reliable durable productive other bigs.

Right now, we only have Gallo (who notably only this season began getting the bulk of his minutes as a back-up PF), and if we presume his trajectory continues (but not if it doesn't) Kong.

Mind you, looking forward... the real commitment to Gallo runs through next season, and then that third one is (iirc) only partially guaranteed--meaning there's going to be a decision made in the 2022 off-season about his value based on his production next season.

So, truly, there is no logjam in the front court. There is reason for encouragement. That's not the same as saying there is reason for confidence that we drafted and have developed a reliable, durable, productive big.

 

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Very Elton Brand like in that respect.  

Oooohhh nice measurement comparison for sure. Forgot about the Brand.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

17 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

This I will comment on right now. Okongwu is much much better than Knight. It’s not close here. Knight is exciting but doesn’t possess that Gwu talent, no way.

Knight possesses better skill than Okongwu, but may not be a better center than Okongwu.

Knight's ability to put the ball on the floor and shoot from distance makes him a very intriguing prospect.  One that I wish we would've had down in College Park ( if he had fielded a team )

 

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Knight possesses better skill than Okongwu,

Ummmm, ok. But you also said Bruno was good, your avatar still says so... 

[macdaddy]

23 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Oooohhh nice measurement comparison for sure. Forgot about the Brand.

Pretty sure he had the longest wingspan in the league for a while.  I wonder how OO compares.

I remember Brand's standing reach was higher than that dufus everyone here always wanted...Gortat!  despite Brand being like 4 inches shorter. 

[ATLHawks3]

41 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Knight possesses better skill than Okongwu, but may not be a better center than Okongwu.

Knight's ability to put the ball on the floor and shoot from distance makes him a very intriguing prospect.  One that I wish we would've had down in College Park ( if he had fielded a team )

 

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

And isn’t that what you would hope for a #6 pick? I mean, getting a starter at that position to me means you’ve done your job well as a GM.

I’ll get @kg01 to force you! 

 

1 hour ago, dalamchops said:

i get what you're saying, but if you look at the last 10 drafts, the only good player that's come out of the #6 spot was lilllard, once you get out of the top 3-4 picks it's always a crapshoot.

So let's talk about the draft...and my personal expectations.  The entire draft is a crapshoot, even at the top.  However, the lottery as a whole is not.  I don't take lottery picks, especially HIGH lottery picks lightly...they are sacred to me because the game changers are there and not exclusive to the top 3.  You just have to find them and groom them correctly.  Guys like Pippen, Chris Paul, Reggie Miller, Garnett, Paul Pierce, Joe Johnson, Dirk, Barkley...they're in that range of that #6.  Hell, Trae or Luka could have been plucked as low as 6 (technically, Luka WAS 5th).

You almost certainly have to burn a high lottery pick on these guys as the odds of securing franchise talent outside of the top 10 are decidedly abysmal.  You do not have to use said asset to acquire a serviceable, rim running, starter quality big man.  I mean...we've only acquired I don't know how many of serviceable bigs throughout the 30 something years I've watched the team.  Smoove, Willis, Millsap, Hendu, Laetner, Ratliff (ha! Serviceable..lol)...and we have two such guys RIGHT. NOW.

When I look at Okongwu...I see a starter, potentially at the higher end of that spectrum of players...maybe.  But not a franchise player.  Not a game changer.  Even if he IS to become either of those things, he would need to muscle his way through two guys, essentially All Stars, who are not likely to yield the slot to him for lack of production for an untold number of moons to come....if at all.

...but I say all of this against my better judgement because

* C L E A R L Y * 
 

Travis Schlenk knows how to do his dang job and he made this pick for a reason.

Admittedly, I had a similar reaction to drafting Trae.  Though, I warmed up after watching him run the team during preseason, I wanted Luka and I was cursing Schlenk up and down for his foolishness on draft night.  So update your journal and the bookmarks @Spud2nique lol I'll be waiting on it.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

43 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Ummmm, ok. But you also said Bruno was good, your avatar still says so... 

 

Bruno is also a victim of lack of development.  In his rookie year, Bruno showed some of the same flashes that Okongwu has shown.  Offensively, I'd say he slightly showed more versatility with his 5 three point makes and 49 assists.  Okongwu on offense, is simply being asked to rim run, which is great for his skill set and makes him more efficient that Bruno.  It is the right thing at this time, to be playing Okongwu ahead of Bruno.

Having said that, the Hawks not sending a team to the G-League bubble hurt Bruno, Knight, Mays, and probably Okongwu as well.  We will know that we have fully matured as a franchise, when our young players start going to the G-League, develop, and come back to the main roster as contributors.

[bleachkit]

19 minutes ago, Wretch said:

 

So let's talk about the draft...and my personal expectations.  The entire draft is a crapshoot, even at the top.  However, the lottery as a whole is not.  I don't take lottery picks, especially HIGH lottery picks lightly...they are sacred to me because the game changers are there and not exclusive to the top 3.  You just have to find them and groom them correctly.  Guys like Pippen, Chris Paul, Reggie Miller, Garnett, Paul Pierce, Joe Johnson, Dirk, Barkley...they're in that range of that #6.  Hell, Trae or Luka could have been plucked as low as 6 (technically, Luka WAS 5th).

You almost certainly have to burn a high lottery pick on these guys as the odds of securing franchise talent outside of the top 10 are decidedly abysmal.  You do not have to use said asset to acquire a serviceable, rim running, starter quality big man.  I mean...we've only acquired I don't know how many of serviceable bigs throughout the 30 something years I've watched the team.  Smoove, Willis, Millsap, Hendu, Laetner, Ratliff (ha! Serviceable..lol)...and we have two such guys RIGHT. NOW.

When I look at Okongwu...I see a starter, potentially at the higher end of that spectrum of players...maybe.  But not a franchise player.  Not a game changer.  Even if he IS to become either of those things, he would need to muscle his way through two guys, essentially All Stars, who are not likely to yield the slot to him for lack of production for an untold number of moons to come....if at all.

...but I say all of this against my better judgement because

* C L E A R L Y * 
 

Travis Schlenk knows how to do his dang job and he made this pick for a reason.

Admittedly, I had a similar reaction to drafting Trae.  Though, I warmed up after watching him run the team during preseason, I wanted Luka and I was cursing Schlenk up and down for his foolishness on draft night.  So update your journal and the bookmarks @Spud2nique lol I'll be waiting on it.

I do think it's fair to question OO's offensive upside. It's hard to envision him a 20 point scorer. But it's also fair to point out that besides Edwards and Ball there just wasn't a high upside guy there, so we went with the conservative needs based pick. 

[RedDawg#8]

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

 

So let's talk about the draft...and my personal expectations.  The entire draft is a crapshoot, even at the top.  However, the lottery as a whole is not.  I don't take lottery picks, especially HIGH lottery picks lightly...they are sacred to me because the game changers are there and not exclusive to the top 3.  You just have to find them and groom them correctly.  Guys like Pippen, Chris Paul, Reggie Miller, Garnett, Paul Pierce, Joe Johnson, Dirk, Barkley...they're in that range of that #6.  Hell, Trae or Luka could have been plucked as low as 6 (technically, Luka WAS 5th).

You almost certainly have to burn a high lottery pick on these guys as the odds of securing franchise talent outside of the top 10 are decidedly abysmal.  You do not have to use said asset to acquire a serviceable, rim running, starter quality big man.  I mean...we've only acquired I don't know how many of serviceable bigs throughout the 30 something years I've watched the team.  Smoove, Willis, Millsap, Hendu, Laetner, Ratliff (ha! Serviceable..lol)...and we have two such guys RIGHT. NOW.

When I look at Okongwu...I see a starter, potentially at the higher end of that spectrum of players...maybe.  But not a franchise player.  Not a game changer.  Even if he IS to become either of those things, he would need to muscle his way through two guys, essentially All Stars, who are not likely to yield the slot to him for lack of production for an untold number of moons to come....if at all.

...but I say all of this against my better judgement because

* C L E A R L Y * 
 

Travis Schlenk knows how to do his dang job and he made this pick for a reason.

Admittedly, I had a similar reaction to drafting Trae.  Though, I warmed up after watching him run the team during preseason, I wanted Luka and I was cursing Schlenk up and down for his foolishness on draft night.  So update your journal and the bookmarks @Spud2nique lol I'll be waiting on it.

Okay, but WHO was that guy in this years draft?  And where was he going to find more playing time on this roster than the 12 mins we were able to give OO? Haliburton would be buried behind Trae, Kev, Bogi, Rondo/Lou, Cam, ETC...Same with Hayes who is a bigger project than OO. Deni, Patrick Williams? Even less minutes at those positions.

We all agreed this was a weaker draft before we picked. We all agreed that we did not have the same minutes to give to a rookie as we have in the previous years. 

We even debated whether it would be more beneficial to trade the pick for a vet like Oladipo who we were in rumors about.

It's okay to have general expectations, but you have to be honest about circumstances too, and not just focus on ideals.

Travis has literally hit on every lottery pick he has had so far, and even the mid first round picks. There is no reason to believe that he was careless with #6 when you consider his track record to date. There is no clear cut player selected after OO that fit's your definition of a worthy #6 or high lottery pick. It's not clear now if there is a star in that bunch, and it was even less so clear at the time of the draft. Schlenk made a smart pick up. It filled need, it fit our timeline, and he is still young enough that his potential is sky high.

I don't see a reason to gripe over it.

Edited May 6, 2021 by RedDawg#8

[Final_quest]

I give Schlenk a pass if he gets one of these picks wrong.  Okongwu is a baby.  It's gonna take a minute for him to develop.  He gets a lot of quick whistles.  So many that I think it keeps him from being aggressive. 

You saw his dog unleashed last night for the first time.  I think there is a lot more dog in him that we haven't seen.  Bring out more of King Kongwu.    

[gurpilo]

I just see Haliburton as the only player that has shown any promise and could challenge the pick we made. Stewart has also shown some promise or Bey but they were a reach at 6.

I understand why we took Okongwu, he was BPA there. He has fantastic defensive tools, not easy to find and his offensive game is work in progress. I am also disappointed by his lack of size but he has upside and is already producing. He is really young, has already defensive tools and could develop a midrange game, let’s enjoy his growth

[TheNorthCydeRises]

27 minutes ago, ATLHawks3 said:

 

smh

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Okay, but WHO was that guy in this years draft?  And where was he going to find more playing time on this roster than the 12 mins we were able to give OO? Haliburton would be buried behind Trae, Kev, Bogi, Rondo/Lou, Cam, ETC...Same with Hayes who is a bigger project than OO. Deni, Patrick Williams? Even less minutes at those positions.

We all agreed this was a weaker draft before we picked. We all agreed that we did not have the same minutes to give to a rookie as we have in the previous years. 

We even debated whether it would be more beneficial to trade the pick for a vet like Oladipo who we were in rumors about.

It's okay to have general expectations, but you have to be honest about circumstances too, and not just focus on ideals.

Travis has literally hit on every lottery pick he has had so far, and even the mid first round picks. There is no reason to believe that he was careless with #6 when you consider his track record to date. There is no clear cut player selected after OO that fit's your definition of a worthy #6 or high lottery pick. It's not clear now if there is a star in that bunch, and it was even less so clear at the time of the draft. Schlenk made a smart pick up. It filled need, it fit our timeline, and he is still young enough that his potential is sky high.

I don't see a reason to gripe over it.

 

No Lou or Rondo here, if we had drafted Haliburton. 

The OO pick was also a response to losing Len and Jones, and uncertainty about Bruno.

[benhillboy]

I’m not into PER but a 15.6 for a rookie is quite impressive.  He’s filling his role of rebounding and drawing fouls at a high rate.  He’s smart and mobile enough to mix in other parts to help the team.  Something about them African dudes I think their youth coaches teach defensive positioning before anything else.

Edited May 6, 2021 by benhillboy

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Okay, but WHO was that guy in this years draft?  And where was he going to find more playing time on this roster than the 12 mins we were able to give OO? Haliburton would be buried behind Trae, Kev, Bogi, Rondo/Lou, Cam, ETC...Same with Hayes who is a bigger project than OO. Deni, Patrick Williams? Even less minutes at those positions.

We all agreed this was a weaker draft before we picked. We all agreed that we did not have the same minutes to give to a rookie as we have in the previous years. 

We even debated whether it would be more beneficial to trade the pick for a vet like Oladipo who we were in rumors about.

It's okay to have general expectations, but you have to be honest about circumstances too, and not just focus on ideals.

Travis has literally hit on every lottery pick he has had so far, and even the mid first round picks. There is no reason to believe that he was careless with #6 when you consider his track record to date. There is no clear cut player selected after OO that fit's your definition of a worthy #6 or high lottery pick. It's not clear now if there is a star in that bunch, and it was even less so clear at the time of the draft. Schlenk made a smart pick up. It filled need, it fit our timeline, and he is still young enough that his potential is sky high.

I don't see a reason to gripe over it.

You don't see a reason for me to have an opinion other than the one you have on a thread asking people's opinions on a specific player?  I don't need you to share my opinion, but if I'm giving my personal...hold on, let me get the actual title of the thread...

 

If I'm giving my thoughts?  I think making "safe", needs based picks, in the lottery is a bad thing and a good way to miss gems.  No we don't know who those gems are in this draft or any future draft.  Without the benefit of hindsight, if we rewind this conversation prior to each of those drafts, you would say the same thing - that there is no (insert franchise player) in this draft.  I would have preferred a different selection but you know...I don't KNOW what Travis felt or what he personally saw.  Clearly he saw something in Trae that I didn't. lol  That's literally the only reason why I'm not straight up grumping, growling, and hating.

More of my "thoughts on Okongwu",

• I think he's a fine player that we hope can be as productive as Collins.
• I think he was "needs" or "safe" given the unknowns in Collins and Capela prior to the season
• Picking for need is fine, but I prefer BPA over need and I do not now, and did not then, think he was BPA
• If you want specifics, I literally preferred like almost every other player above and below him lol...that is Edwards, Wiseman, Ball, Okoro, Hayes, Toppin, Deni, Vassell (he was on the fringe of my list), Nesmith, Haliburton...
• I think you can find decent players like him without burning a lottery pick
• I feel like we could have traded down and got SOMETHING in addition to players I preferred.
• I would have preferred (check the list I have already given) over picking him

I don't agree with all of the enthusiasm, but that's all just like...my opinion man. 

No reason for the merry-go-round.  Make a bookmark like Spud.  Let's revisit any time.  My worthless opinion...bottom line: I'm not excited about Okongwu, certainly not as a #6 pick, and after studying him for hours I can't get excited.  I think the chances of him being a complete bust are next to nil, but do I question his offensive upside and in that light, I don't see franchise player potential.

[JayBirdHawk]

25 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

No Lou or Rondo here, if we had drafted Haliburton. 

The OO pick was also a response to losing Len and Jones, and uncertainty about Bruno.

.....and I think they knew they would be trading Dedmon 2 days after drafting him.

[JayBirdHawk]

18 minutes ago, Wretch said:

If you want specifics, I literally preferred like almost every other player above and below him lol...that is Edwards, Wiseman, Ball, Okoro, Hayes, Toppin, Deni, Vassell (he was on the fringe of my list), Nesmith, Haliburton...

Do you still feel that way about all these guys after having seen them play NBA games? Just asking.