Thoughts on Okongwu?

[JayBirdHawk]

28 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

Did yall see that ally oop OO17 caught last night?  I though Lou was passing it across court to the corner three point shooter because it was so high and fast. But OO17 came out of nowhere and caught the ball at it’s peak and almost broke the rim! His athleticism is off the charts!

 

 

[MarylandHawk]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Bananas! 

[RedDawg#8]

The kid will be nice, he is improving. I love that he doesnt have a lack of confidence. He is not scared out there, just trying to adjust to the speed. He is a natural big man though. And while he lacks height to matchup with the tallest of the tallest centers, he has a great athletic body that holds up against size down low and speed outside. 

[bleachkit]

12 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

The kid will be nice, he is improving. I love that he doesnt have a lack of confidence. He is not scared out there, just trying to adjust to the speed. He is a natural big man though. And while he lacks height to matchup with the tallest of the tallest centers, he has a great athletic body that holds up against size down low and speed outside. 

A big thing going forward will be defending without fouling, which is often difficult for young players.

[RandomFan]

3 hours ago, bleachkit said:

A big thing going forward will be defending without fouling, which is often difficult for young players.

Which is something he's already advanced at for his age, like it says in the article I posted a few days ago. 

[mrhonline]

18 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Which is something he's already advanced at for his age, like it says in the article I posted a few days ago. 

The Athletic one? I'm not sure it makes that argument...although I definitely expect he'll get better at avoiding fouls quickly.

For now, his fouls per possession rate is one of the highest in the league among centers getting decent minutes. It's twice Capela's.

[RedDawg#8]

4 hours ago, bleachkit said:

A big thing going forward will be defending without fouling, which is often difficult for young players.

No doubt, I dont expect him to "get it" until at least year 3. Good news is he is very self aware of how vets are taking advantage of his inexperience. He hasn't figured it out, but he knows its a problem that can only solve itself through film and minutes.

[RandomFan]

4 hours ago, mrhonline said:

The Athletic one? I'm not sure it makes that argument...although I definitely expect he'll get better at avoiding fouls quickly.

For now, his fouls per possession rate is one of the highest in the league among centers getting decent minutes. It's twice Capela's.

Obviously there is always a transition period into the NBA and he's going through that now, but as I said OO seems very advanced for his age. 

From the article:

He had five blocks in that game and at least as many contests to force misses right at the rim. He just already had ideal technique for getting early position and going up straight without swiping at the ball. Most centers take years in the league before they can figure that out, but he was already doing it as a junior in high school.

He is one of those bigs that truly understand how to use their height, realizing that when the ball is on the floor, you want to get low and only need to get tall when the ball is going in the air. You see it when he stays low and wide when guarding the post, but then expands to go straight up when the offensive player goes into his shot. As the competition committee works on amending the verticality rules for next season to hopefully give even more power to rock solid centers like Okongwu, this should make him even more effective.

The other thing that’s been very impressive is how quick and delicate his hands are on defense. He does such a good job against players facing up on him with putting his hands up in their face without making contact as they try to swing their arms around to draw fouls. He can poke at balls without fouling and has great hand-eye coordination so he can keep his arm extended above his head on a contest and get a finger on the ball without making contact with the offensive player’s arm. That’s incredibly tough to pull off, as most shot blockers have to swat at the ball from an angle to get clean contact. He’s just such a refined and nuanced player at a position where it’s really easy not to be.

[mrhonline]

Respectfully ---

"He can do things without fouling"

!=

"He doesn't foul"

[Final_quest]

Some of the fouls look like the referees picking on a rookie.  It’s like they decide all rookies get quick whistles.  

[Spud2nique]

On 4/8/2021 at 6:04 PM, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Wiseman is going to be a borderline All-Star in 2 years.  That kid has major talent that is just being tapped into.

If he played with a PG like Trae, Wiseman would instantly be ROY, even over Lamelo.  Trae would make the game so easy for him.

Okongwu>NotsoWiseman 

Even before the draft there were rumbling of the Warriors wanting Okongwu. I’m thrilled they had pressure on them to go with Wiseman because Okongwu will be the bigger impact player, maybe not stat wise but as far as wins are concerned.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Okongwu>NotsoWiseman 

Even before the draft there were rumbling of the Warriors wanting Okongwu. I’m thrilled they had pressure on them to go with Wiseman because Okongwu will be the bigger impact player, maybe not stat wise but as far as wins are concerned.

 

 

 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

 

 

Thanks North. I’ve seen the guy play, I just think he won’t become that impact guy. He’s more of a highlight guy like Smoove to me. Okongwu impacts wins with his D, Wiseman has a smooth offensive game but he won’t be a 2 way play that helps his team win. We will have to wait and see I could be wrong. Again statistically he will be fine but win shares go to Okongwu. Personally I like Okongwu over him and not just because he’s a Hawk.

[JayBirdHawk]

Hopefully we see more of OO hitting this jumper.

 

 

[Spud2nique]

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Hopefully we see more of OO hitting this jumper.

 

 

Two parts of his game he needs to work on this summer is the midrange jumper and his FT’s. He needs to pull a Clint with the FT’s.  

[ATLHawks3]

14 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Two parts of his game he needs to work on this summer is the midrange jumper and his FT’s. He needs to pull a Clint with the FT’s.  

Also defending without fouling too. 

[Spud2nique]

5 minutes ago, ATLHawks3 said:

Also defending without fouling too. 

True. Still not too concerned with his defense because he’s always going to be aggressive and I wouldn’t want it any other way, but point taken.

[Wretch]

So, I'll be that guy I guess...

It's taken me a while to speak up on OO, but count me as "meh."  I know, I know...  Please don't crack your knuckles, light the torches, and hoist the pitchforks...lol It's less about the player and more about the pick itself.  I didn't like the pick then and I still don't.  Feels like we made a need/insurance pick vs BPA...and I hate when teams do that.  Even if we were going with need, I would rather we had went PG/SG...and traded up, down, or out.  Well, maybe not out...because I don't like when teams do that either - i.e trading lottery picks/young studs for spare change to push for the playoffs.  OO feels like we were looking less at potential and more towards filling a gap or insurance (because...playoffs) in case we traded Collins or if Clint didn't come back healthy.  That and there are other players that I REALLY wanted...

So yeah...meh.

OO himself is a decent prospect.  I'm just, not overly excited bout him.  

Hustle? Great. 
Timing? Pretty good.
Moves well? Yup.
Defensive mechanics? This is where it's at.  He looks solid. Honestly, he has the tools of an anchor.
Offensive mechanics?  Looks like he can walk and chew gum. *shrug*

The squawk has always had a strange fondness for the "serviceable big man", so I totally understand the optimism.  If a serviceable big man is your bag, then this is totally your dude.  Otherwise, I don't see anything that stands out about him.  There's not a lot of negatives other than I don't like his size as a center.  Even with that though, he is long and uses that length well.  He also seems like he could develop a serviceable shot.

Ultimately, he just doesn't excite me.  It's funny, because I love big, bruising, hustling, rebounding bigs... I just wouldn't burn a lottery pick on that.  To me, he's a stronger and slower John Collins with a much higher defensive ceiling and a much lower midrange/3-ball ceiling.  Same potential as a PnR target - which again, is why I feel like he was an insurance pick.

(K...going back to stealth mode.  Go ahead and plant your bookmarks people lol)

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

I love big, bruising, hustling, rebounding bigs...

... you forgot girthy...  

 

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

Ultimately, he just doesn't excite me. 

 

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

Go ahead and plant your bookmarks people lol)

Done .

I do agree with all the points you made except a couple. One is to me he was the BPA (long term). Sure we could have gotten a guy like Hali, couple years older but I just feel like Hali is near a finished product (a heck of a finished product at that) but Okongwu has more room for growth. If Hali is 90% complete as a player, Okongwu is about 65%. 

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

That and there are other players that I REALLY wanted...

I’m guessing Hali but who else? Hayes, Toppin, Vassell? 

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

... you forgot girthy...  

 

 

Done .

I do agree with all the points you made except a couple. One is to me he was the BPA (long term). Sure we could have gotten a guy like Hali, couple years older but I just feel like Hali is near a finished product (a heck of a finished product at that) but Okongwu has more room for growth. If Hali is 90% complete as a player, Okongwu is about 65%. 

I’m guessing Hali but who else? Hayes, Toppin, Vassell? 

Was my board:

Hayes
Deni/Haliburton
Then trading down for Nesmith whom I was super hyped for.

Trading up was probably my preference and my target would have been Melo.  That was my guy, even though I was kinda hesitant because of the fit.  How would two ball dominant points function?  Can either of those guys excel off the ball?  Also SUPER hesitant because of Lavar and his eventual "THAT'S MAH BOI AND HE SHOULD BE RUNNIN' DAT DAMN TEAM!"  Uhgggggggg.  If a sensible trade up was there (or we had landed in the top 3) I would have preferred we pulled the trigger.

I think OO will be fine.  He has a Collins-esque ceiling and his floor is a productive and valuable starter.  Still, I feel like you can find comparable  potential, any given year, in the middle of the 1st round, maybe even late 1st, and definitely through trades/FAcy.  We literally found that same 1st round potential in John Collins and we're about to lock him up.