Thoughts on Okongwu?

[RedDawg#8]

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

Was my board:

Hayes
Deni/Haliburton
Then trading down for Nesmith whom I was super hyped for.

Trading up was probably my preference and my target would have been Melo.  That was my guy, even though I was kinda hesitant because of the fit.  How would two ball dominant points function?  Can either of those guys excel off the ball?  Also SUPER hesitant because of Lavar and his eventual "THAT'S MAH BOI AND HE SHOULD BE RUNNIN' DAT DAMN TEAM!"  Uhgggggggg.  If a sensible trade up was there (or we had landed in the top 3) I would have preferred we pulled the trigger.

I think OO will be fine.  He has a Collins-esque ceiling and his floor is a productive and valuable starter.  Still, I feel like you can find comparable  potential, any given year, in the middle of the 1st round, maybe even late 1st, and definitely through trades/FAcy.  We literally found that same 1st round potential in John Collins and we're about to lock him up.

I honestly get what you are saying. And I agree a trade up was the only way we would gotten a higher upside player.

But I also think that even though OO looks like a needs based pick, he also had the highest upside of any of the guys that were there at 6. He is a young prospect and already looks pretty good. The rest of those guys were all older except for Hayes. OO is actually still pretty raw by comparison, so taking him was also a gamble on his potential and not just a safe pick.

This draft was never that deep in Elite potential type players. This was not like 2019 or 2018 where All Star potential prospects were available throughout the lottery. This draft was always the one where after the top 3, you had to trust your scouting. I think we filled and need, but also nabbed a guy who should improve a lot over the next few years. Think more like Clint if anything. He seemed like a pretty solid, but limited role player in Houston, but you see how impactful he is now in year 7 for us. I think OO can follow that same path, and maybe quicker in like 3-4 years. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Better learn all you can from Clint Gwu.

 

 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Better learn all you can from Clint Gwu.

 

 

I would've liked that so much better if Capela's response to his question was, "I'm amazing."

Hah, that's how I read it at first. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Have yourself a night young man! Look at that Smile.

 

 

[Spud2nique]

On 4/15/2021 at 8:24 AM, Wretch said:

So, I'll be that guy I guess...

It's taken me a while to speak up on OO, but count me as "meh."  I know, I know...  Please don't crack your knuckles, light the torches, and hoist the pitchforks...lol It's less about the player and more about the pick itself.  I didn't like the pick then and I still don't.  Feels like we made a need/insurance pick vs BPA...and I hate when teams do that.  Even if we were going with need, I would rather we had went PG/SG...and traded up, down, or out.  Well, maybe not out...because I don't like when teams do that either - i.e trading lottery picks/young studs for spare change to push for the playoffs.  OO feels like we were looking less at potential and more towards filling a gap or insurance (because...playoffs) in case we traded Collins or if Clint didn't come back healthy.  That and there are other players that I REALLY wanted...

So yeah...meh.

OO himself is a decent prospect.  I'm just, not overly excited bout him.  

Hustle? Great. 
Timing? Pretty good.
Moves well? Yup.
Defensive mechanics? This is where it's at.  He looks solid. Honestly, he has the tools of an anchor.
Offensive mechanics?  Looks like he can walk and chew gum. *shrug*

The squawk has always had a strange fondness for the "serviceable big man", so I totally understand the optimism.  If a serviceable big man is your bag, then this is totally your dude.  Otherwise, I don't see anything that stands out about him.  There's not a lot of negatives other than I don't like his size as a center.  Even with that though, he is long and uses that length well.  He also seems like he could develop a serviceable shot.

Ultimately, he just doesn't excite me.  It's funny, because I love big, bruising, hustling, rebounding bigs... I just wouldn't burn a lottery pick on that.  To me, he's a stronger and slower John Collins with a much higher defensive ceiling and a much lower midrange/3-ball ceiling.  Same potential as a PnR target - which again, is why I feel like he was an insurance pick.

(K...going back to stealth mode.  Go ahead and plant your bookmarks people lol)

@Wretch I need to speak with you... 

 

[Spud2nique]

Only the beginning for Onyeka. Documenting his best game so far as a pro here.

 

Those who had concerns about him being undersized need not worry.

 

[Gray Mule]

Agent 0017, in last night's game, WOW!!

[Wretch]

8 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

@Wretch I need to speak with you... 

 

Come with it! lol

And let's establish some things so that when we look back at these conversations, we don't change the narrative of what was said or what was meant.  First, I will admit when/if I am wrong.  I'm not one of those type guys...and I want to be wrong about how I feel about Okongwu.

The two things I question are his offensive ceiling and the long term fit considering what we have in Capela and Collins.  On the latter, I'd be much more comfortable and more excited with the pick if we weren't already so thick in the frontcourt.  As it were, what we have in Onyeka is an excellent insurance/backup, good trade bait, or incentive to deal Collins.  This is really the crux of my position on him.  I do not like high level duplication.

On his offensive ceiling, he's not trash.  I'm not sure if my words read that way, but I don't see him as a guy who's going to bust.  Far from it.  I've always seen his floor as a capable starter...elite lob target/pnr, rebounding, defender.  Thing is...to me, that's an amazing pick up for a late lottery or mid-late 1st round pick.  That's not an exciting ROI on a #6 pick.  I get the depth of this draft and all that,  but it is what it is...draft quality or not.

Ultimately, I want to see flashes of a guy that could legitimately hold down our 1a/1b slot.  That's what Hunter does for me.  That's what Cam has done on occasion.  What Okongwu has shown me is flashes of what we already have - a dependable, serviceable 4, potential 3rd supporting star.  He's OK (pun intended lol) and I'm still not excited.

(Side note...there's no way we can NOT have a Lil' Jon sound byte whenever Okongwu does something awesome "OKAYYYYYYYYYEEE!  HWWWAAAT!?" lololol)

[JayBirdHawk]

18 minutes ago, Wretch said:

On the latter, I'd be much more comfortable and more excited with the pick if we weren't already so thick in the frontcourt.  As it were, what we have in Onyeka is an excellent insurance/backup, good trade bait, or incentive to deal Collins.  This is really the crux of my position on him.  I do not like high level duplication.

I don't neccessarily agree with this in totality particularly when Capela sits.  What I like is that all 3 guys are at different stages of their careers, contracts and age.  Capela 27 with 2 years left on his 2nd contract, Collins 23 and about to sign his 2nd contract (Hawks or another team), KongWu on the 1st year of his rookie deal.  KongWu will have the next 2 years to learn behind Capela before a decision has to be made on both.

[Wretch]

32 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I don't neccessarily agree with this in totality particularly when Capela sits.  What I like is that all 3 guys are at different stages of their careers, contracts and age.  Capela 27 with 2 years left on his 2nd contract, Collins 23 and about to sign his 2nd contract (Hawks or another team), KongWu on the 1st year of his rookie deal.  KongWu will have the next 2 years to learn behind Capela before a decision has to be made on both.

Ehhhhhhhhh...

You're not wrong, but it doesn't go against what I'm saying either. When Capela sits...OK is backup.  If Capela walks, OK is backup. Collins or Capela...  Either is injured or is traded,we have backup and that's fine.

However, you can find that with mid-late first rounders, trades, and FAcy.. sometimes you even find it in the 2nd round.  I mean, is Knight any less of a 4/5 prospect? Again, not dogging him...but I can't get excited about what he brings as a #6 pick. Especially in light of what we already have.

I have considered where they are age/career wise.  Though I'd say he and JC are roughly in the same window. Capela is hitting his prime though and it will be a minute before we have to worry about him falling off - contract notwithstanding of course.  There's more than enough time to get that in order - so I still don't see the need to have burned a lottery pick on insurance for it.

None of this sits right with me and is absolutely killing my enthusiasm for OK/Gwu/0017. In my mind, it's like...best case scenario is one of those three is traded or we bench some high level duplication.

[JayBirdHawk]

Per Nate:

In order for him to stay out on the floor, he has to limit his mistakes. I thought tonight he did that. He had one illegal screen, but for the most part every time on the floor — offensively and defensively — he was in the right place and the right spot out on the floor. As long as he continues to play like that and show growth, he’ll get minutes. This year is basically a year for him to get his feet wet and get out there and just play.”

[macdaddy]

You see Lou talking to him and feeding him and OO commented on it in the interview.   Hopefully folks are noticing the genius of that trade.  

[Final_quest]

Thing is we are deep everywhere.  Saying we are set with our bigs so there is no need to draft a potential starter implies we have a bigger need somewhere else.  Trae is our franchise player at PG.  We have Bogi, Huerter, Hunter, and Cam at the wing. 

KongWu made sense to me because of the Bam Adebayo style of big that he could become.  He gives us another potential full time starter in the coming years that fits where the league is going.  There was no clear generational talent available and KongWu could become an allstar at the five.  In hindsight should we have taken Halliburton?  Perhaps, but that is the nature of drafting.  You don't get a star every year.  Really it's too early to see how Kong develops.  We'll have a better idea in the next year or two.  

And Nathan Knight fills the same need?  Really?  Knight is a scrub who is out of the rotation.  He fills in when guys go down with injuries level player.  Sorry, I disagree with the comparison.  

[dalamchops]

3 hours ago, Wretch said:

On his offensive ceiling, he's not trash.  I'm not sure if my words read that way, but I don't see him as a guy who's going to bust.  Far from it.  I've always seen his floor as a capable starter...elite lob target/pnr, rebounding, defender.  Thing is...to me, that's an amazing pick up for a late lottery or mid-late 1st round pick.  That's not an exciting ROI on a #6 pick.  I get the depth of this draft and all that,  but it is what it is...draft quality or not.

 

i get what you're saying, but if you look at the last 10 drafts, the only good player that's come out of the #6 spot was lilllard, once you get out of the top 3-4 picks it's always a crapshoot.

[Wretch]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Thing is we are deep everywhere.  Saying we are set with our bigs so there is no need to draft a potential starter implies we have a bigger need somewhere else.  Trae is our franchise player at PG.  We have Bogi, Huerter, Hunter, and Cam at the wing. 

KongWu made sense to me because of the Bam Adebayo style of big that he could become.  He gives us another potential full time starter in the coming years that fits where the league is going.  There was no clear generational talent available and KongWu could become an allstar at the five.  In hindsight should we have taken Halliburton?  Perhaps, but that is the nature of drafting.  You don't get a star every year.  Really it's too early to see how Kong develops.  We'll have a better idea in the next year or two.  

And Nathan Knight fills the same need?  Really?  Knight is a scrub who is out of the rotation.  He fills in when guys go down with injuries level player.  Sorry, I disagree with the comparison.  

No need to apologize. We're just discussing how we feel about our draft pick and your opinion is just as valid as mine.  Also, I don't get upset when people don't agree with me.

I never said the pic didn't make sense. I said the opposite. That's typically what teams do when they make a safe pick.  I don't like "safe" lottery picks and I don't like high level duplication...  If we were going to draft someone that high, I would have preferred a guard... And trade up or down to do so.

That's just how I feel about it. I can't force myself to like this pick. Not to be confused with liking the player. I feel like OK is a fine prospect. I feel like we can find that easily without having to burn such a high pick.

I also don't feel like Knight is a scrub. He has potential, but there's not a lot of space in the rotation for him. I'm not going to comment in on which one is better or more promising. I can say neither has me as excited as Hunter.

I'll say it again for the record, I think that Gwu is a fine rim runner, defender, and rebounder. That doesn't excite me about a #6 pick. He has me about as excited as I was for Jaxon Hayes... Which is to say, not very excited. That doesn't mean he's not going to be a good player. That doesn't mean I think he's going to bust. And as I've already said I believe he'll be a starter.

One thing that does have me excited is the fact that Travis knows how to build a damn team.  So I can only trust that he knows what he's doing.. and in that regard I'm comfortable with the pick

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, Wretch said:

Ultimately, I want to see flashes of a guy that could legitimately hold down our 1a/1b slot.

He will be that guy. I hear you but I also truly believe that for his age and skills he was the BPA at #6. It’s never a bad idea to have multiple front court players due to injuries, contract situations etc. Depth is what we Schlenk was going for but again I honestly believe that Okongwu was the best pick at #6, I’d even go as far as to say he should have gone #4 to the Bulls. Patrick Williams is a baby but if I’m the Bulls or even the Warriors at #2, I’m taking Okongwu over Williams and Wiseman respectively.

I do hear you though and understand your stand on Okongwu. Time will tell.

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, Wretch said:

One thing that does have me excited is the fact that Travis knows how to build a damn team.  So I can only trust that he knows what he's doing.. and in that regard I'm comfortable with the pick

[Spud2nique]

8 minutes ago, Wretch said:

And as I've already said I believe he'll be a starter.

And isn’t that what you would hope for a #6 pick? I mean, getting a starter at that position to me means you’ve done your job well as a GM.

10 minutes ago, Wretch said:

can't force myself to like this pick.

I’ll get @kg01 to force you! 

[Spud2nique]

11 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I'm not going to comment in on which one is better or more promising.

This I will comment on right now. Okongwu is much much better than Knight. It’s not close here. Knight is exciting but doesn’t possess that Gwu talent, no way.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 4/3/2021 at 11:40 AM, EazyRoc said:

You still going on about that ?

Think of it like this.

What if people started calling Miles Bridges, "The Human Highlight Film"?

Or we started calling Trae Young "The Answer"?

I think this topic would take on an entirely different meaning.