Training Camp and Preseason 2020.

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

He also seems like the type who thinks, if it doesn't come from him, it must be wrong.

Like, get over yourself, Bradley.

And, yes, I do think at least a few national types get stuff from him and parrot it to the masses.

You gotta think that a lot of the John Collin BS comes from him...John Collins is a center, John Collins not worth the max, John Collins will be traded because we drafted a Okungwu, We should draft another wing because we have too many front court players.. Blah Blah Blah

[bleachkit]

I think Brad does a good job. I find his analysis to be fair. It's not his job to be a homer. That's more the Mike Conti role.

[GameTime]

RUH ROH

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by GameTime

[macdaddy]

7 minutes ago, GameTime said:

RUH ROH

 

They are working on it though.  Not sure how far apart they can be unless he's just decided max or bust.

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

I think Brad does a good job. I find his analysis to be fair. It's not his job to be a homer. That's more the Mike Conti role.

I stopped taking him seriously 3 years ago when he and Seigel were ragging on Collins constantly claiming that Collins was a 6th man at best.

[RedDawg#8]

39 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

They are working on it though.  Not sure how far apart they can be unless he's just decided max or bust.

I think Supes source said something about them being pretty close to a deal.

I believe that if they agree to terms before this season starts, no way John gets maxed out. The winning thing has to affect the numbers. For instance if we make the playoffs John has more leverage to ask for a max deal because he is now an important piece of a winning team. As of right now he is still just a great young talented player that hasnt proven much in the win loss column (if im the Hawks brass). I think John really wants to stay here and wants his people to work it out. I believe they get a deal done sooner than later, and like the rest of Schlenk's moves it will be a very fair offer to JC that also leaves us the flexibility we need to continue to build this thing. He will get paid his value, he will get shown love for being a great ambassador to the franchise and city, but he will not be overpaid by any means. My guess

[kg01]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

I think Brad does a good job. I find his analysis to be fair. It's not his job to be a homer. That's more the Mike Conti role.

Who said anything about wanting him to be a homer?

We want him to not be purposefully wrong.

[bleachkit]

47 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Who said anything about wanting him to be a homer?

We want him to not be purposefully wrong.

Are there any media members you like?

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[kg01]

7 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Are there any media members you like?

What media members do I not like, other than Braaad?

Sometimes I think you mix people up.

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I think Supes source said something about them being pretty close to a deal.

I believe that if they agree to terms before this season starts, no way John gets maxed out. The winning thing has to affect the numbers. For instance if we make the playoffs John has more leverage to ask for a max deal because he is now an important piece of a winning team. As of right now he is still just a great young talented player that hasnt proven much in the win loss column (if im the Hawks brass). I think John really wants to stay here and wants his people to work it out. I believe they get a deal done sooner than later, and like the rest of Schlenk's moves it will be a very fair offer to JC that also leaves us the flexibility we need to continue to build this thing. He will get paid his value, he will get shown love for being a great ambassador to the franchise and city, but he will not be overpaid by any means. My guess

Actually Supes said anything 4 yrs/80 mil would be an overpay. So expect an overpay, that's not actually an overpay.

[JTB]

I expect a collins deal to be completed right before the start of the season. I think collins will get a 5 year $100-110 mil deal.

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

48 out of 546 is a bit under 10%. So that's probably on par with the general public.

24 minutes ago, JTB said:

I expect a collins deal to be completed right before the start of the season. I think collins will get a 5 year $100-110 mil deal.

5 yr/100 mil is 20 per. Not a snowball's chance in Hades. 

[Atlantaholic]

2 hours ago, JTB said:

I expect a collins deal to be completed right before the start of the season. I think collins will get a 5 year $100-110 mil deal.

5 year 125 Mil I think is probably more realistic.

2 hours ago, bleachkit said:

48 out of 546 is a bit under 10%. So that's probably on par with the general public.

5 yr/100 mil is 20 per. Not a snowball's chance in Hades. 

We'll be lucky to get him for under 30 mil a year. If we can get him for 25 million a year that would be amazing. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Atlantaholic

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

5 year 125 Mil I think is probably more realistic.

We'll be lucky to get him for under 30 mil a year. If we can get him for 25 million a year that would be amazing. 

His max is 25% of the $109 cap, tops out starting at $27 mil.

I don't think he gets the Rookie designation where he can get up to 30%.

[JTB]

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

His max is 25% of the $109 cap, tops out starting at $27 mil.

I don't think he gets the Rookie designation where he can get up to 30%.

I uhhh don’t think he’s quite earned close to 30 mil yet...not saying you are saying give him the 27 mil per ....I just think from a business standpoint it’s kinda insane factoring in that we have not yet made the playoffs.

23 mil per season I think is the highest I’d go if I were in Schlenks position doing negotiations and 23 mil per is more than fair for a first big nba contract to a player who’s doing good individually but team hasn’t really won in the regular season yet.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, JTB said:

I uhhh don’t think he’s quite earned close to 30 mil yet...not saying you are saying give him the 27 mil per ....I just think from a business standpoint it’s kinda insane factoring in that we have not yet made the playoffs.

23 mil per season I think is the highest I’d go if I were in Schlenks position doing negotiations and 23 mil per is more than fair for a first big nba contract to a player who’s doing good individually but team hasn’t really won in the regular season yet.

My response is only in relation to what the standard rookie max is...25% of the cap.  

[JayBirdHawk]

14 minutes ago, JTB said:

I uhhh don’t think he’s quite earned close to 30 mil yet...not saying you are saying give him the 27 mil per ....I just think from a business standpoint it’s kinda insane factoring in that we have not yet made the playoffs.

23 mil per season I think is the highest I’d go if I were in Schlenks position doing negotiations and 23 mil per is more than fair for a first big nba contract to a player who’s doing good individually but team hasn’t really won in the regular season yet.

I know we all want JC on a 'good' deal but winning on a tanking team is not a measure to use when determining if and how much you should extend a rookie contract, it's based on his potential and anticipated growth.  D'Aaron Fox just got a 5 year max deal from a Kings team that isn't winning either.

You can use a plethora of other reasons to underpay him, but using winning on this team the past 3 seasons isn't one of them.

[RedDawg#8]

3 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Actually Supes said anything 4 yrs/80 mil would be an overpay. So expect an overpay, that's not actually an overpay.

Correct. Supes has been pushing that number for a while but thats just HIS preferred deal. I think its easily north of that when it happens.

My reference to  Supes was because he recently said that the 2 sides were close on a deal. My opinion  is that being close means it happens before or during the season and that makes it less likely to be a max deal. Because a) it means Johns camp is actually negotiating and not just posturing or making idol threats for more money. And b) to max out his value JC would need to lead us to a playoff berth at the very least (If Im Schlenk ). The full max would be an overpay today, but not in 7 months if we accomplish what we are planning on this season. But an offer just barely under the Max would be more than fair for now.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Correct. Supes has been pushing that number for a while but thats just HIS preferred deal. I think its easily north of that when it happens.

My reference to  Supes was because he recently said that the 2 sides were close on a deal. My opinion  is that being close means it happens before or during the season and that makes it less likely to be a max deal. Because a) it means Johns camp is actually negotiating and not just posturing or making idol threats for more money. And b) to max out his value JC would need to lead us to a playoff berth at the very least (If Im Schlenk ). The full max would be an overpay today, but not in 7 months if we accomplish what we are planning on this season. But an offer just barely under the Max would be more than fair for now.

 

IIRC, If he isn't signed before the season, Dec 21st, it will have to be after the season.