Our Defense sucks right now!…Let’s talk about it!

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

 

What the! Wait, I read everything did you go back and edit that? Apparently I missed the original  

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

What the! Wait, I read everything did you go back and edit that? Apparently I missed the original  

No edit on that one, lol.  

[JayBirdHawk]

On 11/11/2021 at 3:07 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

I disagree, it's not ALL on Clint - everyone else has to take ownership of their respective assignments first then look for help 2nd, they are definitely not doing that.

• They have been switching too much on the perimeter and not communicating effectively when they do which leads to wide open shooters
• They've had too many brain farts in transition or when we are scrambling on defense, like Hunter leaving Curry wide open or Huerter not picking up Conley in transition and leaving him open for a 3.
• Cam sometimes wants to make the homerun play/steal in lieu of playing sound defense
• They have not been able to stop dribble penetration
• They dig too far in the pain leaving shooters open
• Trae is horrible when not engaged, he does better when he is  - he can be a little more consistent with his effort.
• I think the injuries that both Bogi and Hueter had in the offseason has played a role in some of their additional defensive deficiencies.

Fix the defense, the offense will take care of itself.

Almost 2 months later, this still applies. (and add the COVID issues - no continuity).

[ATLHawks3]

I have never seen such polarity in a team. A championship level offense, and a defense comparable to that of a team tanking for the number 1 pick.

[kg01]

This is beyond frustrating.  Everybody will pin it on Trae but that's not fair.  He's shown notable increased effort.  If the team is waiting on him to turn into Sidney Moncrief, they're in for a rude awakening.  His limitations are known.  Others have to pick it up.

Trae is doing better but still falls asleep and ball-watches at times leading to open shots.  But it's not ALL him, which is the picture folks are painting.

The lightbulb went off for me while watching guys like Iwundu and M. Smith defend on the perimeter.  Their awareness was light years beyond anyone on the team.  Embarrassingly so.

As maligned as he is, TLC is better than most on our team in that regard but I'd be fine with exchanging him for one-a them.

I never thought I'd say it but they need to go get Marcus Smart.  The personality fit may be wonky.  And he's not good on O but heyul we trotting out a couple non-offensers out there anyway.  At least Mahr-cus would be accountable on D and hold others to the same standard in a way no one else on the team is willing/able to.

Gash I just advocated trading for Marcus Smart.

  @Spud2nique ... hold me.

[Final_quest]

We have mostly the same players as last year.  A lot of this has to be related to scheme. 

Were Solo and Snell that good at defense?  I think they are the only two rotation players not on the team this year compared to last year.  

 

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Final_quest said:

We have mostly the same players as last year.  A lot of this has to be related to scheme. 

Were Solo and Snell that good at defense?  I think they are the only two rotation players not on the team this year compared to last year.  
 

I think it's attitude.  For all his faults, Solo had the right attitude on the court.  Was vocal on defense, which is something we clearly lack.  Even Cam's approach defensively seems to have changed.

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

We have mostly the same players as last year.  A lot of this has to be related to scheme. 

New coaching staff is giving me pause.

[kg01]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

New coaching staff is giving me pause.

That can't be.  We were told, by most folks here, that all the issues were the former HC's fault alone.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

@Spud2nique ... hold me.

17 minutes ago, kg01 said:

That can't be.  We were told, by most folks here, that all the issues were the former HC's fault alone.

Lloyd wasn’t an NBA coach.

[Sothron]

We switch way too much. If guys would hold to their man and either keep them in front of them OR work through a screen we wouldn't be blaming poor Capela for everything. News flash: Capela is not Defense Jesus. He can't save you. You need to save yourself. It is beyond unfair to expect Capela or Hunter when he's healthy to somehow hold up five guys on defense. 

 

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, Sothron said:

We switch way too much. If guys would hold to their man and either keep them in front of them OR work through a screen we wouldn't be blaming poor Capela for everything. News flash: Capela is not Defense Jesus. He can't save you. You need to save yourself. It is beyond unfair to expect Capela or Hunter when he's healthy to somehow hold up five guys on defense. 

 

The switching is kind of inevitable.   I don't think we switch too much.  I think moreso.. it's about effort.   Some guys aren't making the effort to defend.   You can take a 10 day contract guy like Chaundee Brown and compare his defense to Kevin Huerter.   Brown just makes a better effort.   Even if it's zone defense.   

There has to be that level of commitment that you're not going to allow your man to do what he wants to do.   Sometimes, it's not about stopping him from scoring.  Sometimes, it's covering him on a screen and helping your teammate.   Sometimes we make the same mistakes we see others do when we're on offense.   We don't fight through picks.  We go under...  so fourth and so on. 

[macdaddy]

We need Bogi, Cam and Hunter back badly.   We can start trying to find others via trade but it's a crap shoot and we'll probably loss value in the long run unless we can just steal some guys.  

[Spud2nique]

Just now, macdaddy said:

We need Bogi, Cam and Hunter back badly.   We can start trying to find others via trade but it's a crap shoot and we'll probably loss value in the long run unless we can just steal some guys.  

HeLLLLLTHSSS ABOVE ALL! 

[kg01]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

We switch way too much. If guys would hold to their man and either keep them in front of them OR work through a screen we wouldn't be blaming poor Capela for everything. News flash: Capela is not Defense Jesus. He can't save you. You need to save yourself. It is beyond unfair to expect Capela or Hunter when he's healthy to somehow hold up five guys on defense. 

 

You and ol' @Diesel are both right.  Or both wrong?   Yeah, I'll say you're both wrong.

We do switch too much but that's endemic to every team nowadays.  It's lazy and puts you on the razor's edge of being a bad defensive team.

So why aren't all teams bad on d?  Good question, kg.

It's because, as dies-o suggested, it's all about effort and defensive intelligence.  Once we're screened, and inevitably switch .... then point at the guy we expect to pick up where we left off but he's not paying attention so the ballhandler just walks to wherever he wants, we die a quick death.  We don't stay engaged to see where we 'should' be going next.  We don't pay attention to notice our mark has repositioned.  We don't talk so others know what they should be doing.

Rather, we stand there as if it's a video game and we're off screen.  Then we watch the ball, let our man get free, then something happens.

If the team is rolling the 'something' is usually an open shot we wish-hope misses.  The best part about that is our "contest" which only comes after the shot it gone.  It's like we're thinking, "Aye, if I put my hand up, on film it'll look like I was husslin'"  Gallo is particularly good at this.  He goes the extra mile to walk really close to the guy as he's gazing at his shot hittin' bottom.

Oh another thing that happens while we're ball-watchin is guys cutting to the basket only to have us reach-foul them then hope it's not an and-1.  We put more effort into trying, in vain, to convince the ref not to give continuation than we do to stopping the shot in the first place.  Then we're in the penalty early.  Then our thin margin for error gets even more skinny.

That's how ya end up in the high 20's for defensin'.

Meanwhile, the 10-dayers have no choice but to keep actually husslin', not fake-husslin'.  So you see them giving multiple efforts.  They have no choice but to show they have defensive instincts, so you see them moving to the proper area and making consistent contests on shots.  They know they're not getting the benefit of the whistle on d, so you see them in a stance and moving their feet.

There's a couple dudes who's spots should be very much in jeopardy because there's a 10-day dude who performed better when called upon.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

Quote

“It’s frustrating. It’s not fun,” Young said of the Hawks’ defense. “Being one of the best offensive teams in the league is a really good thing, but when you’re letting teams score as much as you, it’s not good for your team. We got to figure it out. We have time to figure it out. We have to do it. We have to keep the offense the way it’s been going. We have to get more stops.”

Kevin Huerter, who made his return after sitting the past six games while in health and safety protocols, echoed Young’s comments.

“It’s just one of those things that we talk about where we know how capable and how good we can be,” Huerter said. “We see how good we can be on the offensive end of the court. We just have to figure it out defensively. It’s a lot of things. It starts with being more connected with each other. I’ve said it before, having that sense of urgency and taking pride on that end of the court. It’s not going to turn around until we do. I think when it does, we can be the team we thought we were going to be and are capable of being.

“If we don’t figure it out, it’s going to be much of the same for the rest of the year.”

Huerter is right. This team isn’t going anywhere if it can’t figure out how to defend better. And here’s the thing: The Hawks don’t even have to be elite defensively to start stringing together wins. They can just be average and be the team we thought they would be coming into the season because of how good this offense is, led by Young putting up some of the best numbers in the league.

The problem is they have too many players who are poor defenders. Young is one of them. Danilo Gallinari and Lou Williams are disastrous defensively and a huge culprit for why the bench unit has a tendency to implode. Huerter and Bogdanovic have not been as strong defensively on the perimeter. Reddish has flashes of defensive brilliance but isn’t consistent enough. Clint Capela is getting better, but him not being the version he was last season hurts. Hunter has only played in 11 games, but he was only dominant in a few of those games.

This is a collective issue that doesn’t seem to have one fix.

Hawks waste Trae Young’s career night, and it’s clear changes are necessary – The Athletic

[hylndr11]

Guess y'all missed the gm tirade this morning, it's basic basketball shit , just effort , no sense of urgency to get stops on the guy in front of u this isn't rocket science and has been well documented this year in numerous places. I don't see why we are trying to force this on a scheme.  Ur right though coaches hate winning and want to force these player to do shit they can't do and lose 

Gallo can't move , Lou just doesn't care , trea just ball watches , huerter I don't know what hes doing , unless he's making a statement or something and bogi hasn't played much but can't move well either 

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by hylndr11

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Hawks waste Trae Young’s career night, and it’s clear changes are necessary – The Athletic

You can't win much in this league without wing defenders.  Our THREE best were not in the game.   I get it's frustrating but let's have some perspective.   

Changes are necessary?   Like what?  How about getting Cam/Bogi/Hunter back.  Not to mention JC.

[Sothron]

25 minutes ago, kg01 said:

You and ol' @Diesel are both right.  Or both wrong?   Yeah, I'll say you're both wrong.

We do switch too much but that's endemic to every team nowadays.  It's lazy and puts you on the razor's edge of being a bad defensive team.

So why aren't all teams bad on d?  Good question, kg.

It's because, as dies-o suggested, it's all about effort and defensive intelligence.  Once we're screened, and inevitably switch .... then point at the guy we expect to pick up where we left off but he's not paying attention so the ballhandler just walks to wherever he wants, we die a quick death.  We don't stay engaged to see where we 'should' be going next.  We don't pay attention to notice our mark has repositioned.  We don't talk so others know what they should be doing.

Rather, we stand there as if it's a video game and we're off screen.  Then we watch the ball, let our man get free, then something happens.

If the team is rolling the 'something' is usually an open shot we wish-hope misses.  The best part about that is our "contest" which only comes after the shot it gone.  It's like we're thinking, "Aye, if I put my hand up, on film it'll look like I was husslin'"  Gallo is particularly good at this.  He goes the extra mile to walk really close to the guy as he's gazing at his shot hittin' bottom.

Oh another thing that happens while we're ball-watchin is guys cutting to the basket only to have us reach-foul them then hope it's not an and-1.  We put more effort into trying, in vain, to convince the ref not to give continuation than we do to stopping the shot in the first place.  Then we're in the penalty early.  Then our thin margin for error gets even more skinny.

That's how ya end up in the high 20's for defensin'.

Meanwhile, the 10-dayers have no choice but to keep actually husslin', not fake-husslin'.  So you see them giving multiple efforts.  They have no choice but to show they have defensive instincts, so you see them moving to the proper area and making consistent contests on shots.  They know they're not getting the benefit of the whistle on d, so you see them in a stance and moving their feet.

There's a couple dudes who's spots should be very much in jeopardy because there's a 10-day dude who performed better when called upon.

We have two players who fight through screens. Hunter and Bogi. Yes, Bogi. He actually tries on defense. Everyone else will not fight through a screen. They will go under or immediately give up and switch out. You said that every team switches and that's just not the case. I've never seen a team switch as much as we do. Other teams will at least fight through screens or stay so on top of their guy off the ball that there is no need to switch.

I agree completely that this is effort. My dad told me you can coach a player up on several things but you can't coach speed and effort. And of those two there's only one you can't really control. You damn sure can control effort. We have three players on our roster who shot no effort at all on defense. Lou, Gallo and get ready for it...Red Velvet. I don't know why Kevin gets a free pass on here but I *see you* Red Velvet. You are killing the team with your bad rotations and inability/unwillingness to fight through a screen or for God's sake keep your man in front of you.

The only good thing about this loss is that this is national news that Trae Young made NBA HISTORY with the first ever 56 point/14 assist game and we still lost. That has now apparently lit something under our GM's ass to finally see this roster is simply not working. Nate will use Lou Williams as long as he is on this team. That's the first player that has to go. I don't care if you trade him in his last season or not. Give him  his walking papers if you have to but that man should only be on the court in blow out minutes.

[mrhonline]

I find Cam's reputation as a good defender to be fascinating. I don't see it.