Lukastans are biting at the bit to take a shot at Trae

[terrell]

2 hours ago, GameTime said:

Luka is worst than Trae on D

lol

[RedDawg#8]

Career playoff record:

Trae: 10-11 (.476)

Luka: 12-15 (.444)

Deepest playoff run

Trae: ECF game 6

Luka: WCF game 5

Most wins in a single playoff:

Trae: 9

Luka: 7

Career Playoff High Points

Trae: 48

Luka: 46

Career Playoff High Assists

Trae: 18

Luka: 14

Career Playoff Series Wins against Higher Seed:

Trae: 2

Luka: 1

Career Playoff Series Record

Trae: 2-2 (.500)

Luka: 2-3 (.400)

 

We hear all the time how much better Luka is. Well, here are a few categories in which is simply is not yet better than Trae

 

 

[Spud2nique]

Anyone been to FakeGM today? 
 

 

[NBASupes]

Luka is miles better on D than Trae but that said, he's ass on D. That's why the LeBron comps should end

[kg01]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Luka is miles better on D than Trae but that said, he's ass on D. That's why the LeBron comps should end

Bad is bad.  There is no "less bad". 

[noble]

7 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Career playoff record:

Trae: 10-11 (.476)

Luka: 12-15 (.444)

Deepest playoff run

Trae: ECF game 6

Luka: WCF game 5

Most wins in a single playoff:

Trae: 9

Luka: 7

Career Playoff High Points

Trae: 48

Luka: 46

Career Playoff High Assists

Trae: 18

Luka: 14

Career Playoff Series Wins against Higher Seed:

Trae: 2

Luka: 1

Career Playoff Series Record

Trae: 2-2 (.500)

Luka: 2-3 (.400)

 

We hear all the time how much better Luka is. Well, here are a few categories in which is simply is not yet better than Trae

 

 

Wins aren’t a single player stat, kind of like wins aren’t a QB stat. Carry on. 

[Diesel]

Just heard dumb Nick Wright saying that Luka is more efficient than Trae??

This is spin and this is how misinformation gets repeated in the echo chamber. 

For those who don't know...

Trae is more efficient than Luka

Trae shoots better from outside than Luka.

Trae gets more assists than Luka.

Trae scores more ppg than Luka..

[AHF]

On efficiency:

___________ Luka TS% /  Trae TS%

2019-20  .585% TS% < .595% TS%

2020-21 .587% TS% < .589% TS%

2021-22 .571% TS% << .603% TS%

 

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, Diesel said:

This is spin and this is how misinformation gets repeated in the echo chamber. 

This is my issue with a lot of these yammering heads....the information is easy to find. 

They get a narrative stuck in their heads and despite facts to the contrary refuse to admit it and keep repeating the same tired lines.

[Wretch]

The real problem is that Donic is not a comp for Trae and vice/versa.  Trae is a facilitator that can score.  Luka is a scorer that can facilitate.  Trae is a point guard and his comp is closer to someone like Darius Garland.  Historically speaking, it's Steve Nash, John Stockton, Jason Kidd (court vision ), and the ultimate bar Chris Paul (sans the rebounding).

Luka is a shooting guard...he's big wing with court vision.  The only recently drafted notable comp I can think of is someone like SGA.  Luka's obviously a different kind of SG because he can truly facilitate the offense.  His comp is closer to something between Kobe and LeBron.

Trae gets the ball, he's looking at the whole team. Luka gets the ball, he's looking at the basket.  These guys are just two different players that shouldn't be compared to each other.  If you keep them in their respective lanes, they both look like superstars.

Two other big issues affecting this conversation...aside from regency bias.  For one, it's the performance early in his rookie season relative to the trade and it's their respective team performances in the Bubble year where Luka and the Mavs were clearly built to "win now."  Secondly, in the overall "greatness" conversation, Trae suffers from popular opinion the same way Magic Johnson does when compared to all-time greats.  It's the scorer's that get all the attention - Kobe, MJ, Kareem, Wilt.  Stockton/Malone...it seems like people don't talk as much about the former and "The Mailman" gets more of the hype. 

Regardless of how well Trae does, he'll never get that unique kind of respect that guys like Kobe, MJ, Curry, or TMac get.  That scorer's respect.  Luka gets that and that's just the way it's going to be.  Had these two never been traded for each other, we would never be drawing these comparisons and nobody would have much to say about Trae other than how incredible a find he was for us.

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Had these two never been traded for each other, we would never be drawing these comparisons and nobody would have much to say about Trae other than how incredible a find he was for us.

Not certain about that.  The trade certainly focused that discussion and amped it up but I could see them being natural comparisons as the two biggest stars from their draft class ala Bird and Magic.  

Both of them are home run picks for the Hawks and Mavs just like the aforementioned were for the Lakers and Celtics.

[NBASupes]

15 minutes ago, Wretch said:

The real problem is that Donic is not a comp for Trae and vice/versa.  Trae is a facilitator that can score.  Luka is a scorer that can facilitate.  Trae is a point guard and his comp is closer to someone like Darius Garland.  Historically speaking, it's Steve Nash, John Stockton, Jason Kidd (court vision ), and the ultimate bar Chris Paul (sans the rebounding).

Luka is a shooting guard...he's big wing with court vision.  The only recently drafted notable comp I can think of is someone like SGA.  Luka's obviously a different kind of SG because he can truly facilitate the offense.  His comp is closer to something between Kobe and LeBron.

Trae gets the ball, he's looking at the whole team. Luka gets the ball, he's looking at the basket.  These guys are just two different players that shouldn't be compared to each other.  If you keep them in their respective lanes, they both look like superstars.

Two other big issues affecting this conversation...aside from regency bias.  For one, it's the performance early in his rookie season relative to the trade and it's their respective team performances in the Bubble year where Luka and the Mavs were clearly built to "win now."  Secondly, in the overall "greatness" conversation, Trae suffers from popular opinion the same way Magic Johnson does when compared to all-time greats.  It's the scorer's that get all the attention - Kobe, MJ, Kareem, Wilt.  Stockton/Malone...it seems like people don't talk as much about the former and "The Mailman" gets more of the hype. 

Regardless of how well Trae does, he'll never get that unique kind of respect that guys like Kobe, MJ, Curry, or TMac get.  That scorer's respect.  Luka gets that and that's just the way it's going to be.  Had these two never been traded for each other, we would never be drawing these comparisons and nobody would have much to say about Trae other than how incredible a find he was for us.

I don't know if I put Trae with Stockton or Nash due to decision making issues but he's far more of a PG than Luka who's baby LeBron on that end.

[Wretch]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Not certain about that.  The trade certainly focused that discussion and amped it up but I could see them being natural comparisons as the two biggest stars from their draft class ala Bird and Magic.  

Both of them are home run picks for the Hawks and Mavs just like the aforementioned were for the Lakers and Celtics.

Ehhh..... I don't know if I agree.  There's so many ways to look at that draft.  Let's assume we kept Luka and Dallas (or Orlando who was hot on him) had taken Trae.  Of course this is all subjective, but I feel like the more likely conversation would always be how Bagley and Ayton were taken ahead of Luka.  Same as Darko was taken ahead of Melo.  They don't really talk about Darko over Bosh or Wade, it's always Darko over Melo...even though I'd say Bosh is a good draft comp relatively speaking. 

Would there really be a conversation/comparison with Luka and Trae?  Surely they'd rate talent in that draft and Luka would still be at the top of those ratings, but the bigger story would be the TWO teams who passed on Luka.  I just don't see a Luka vs. Trae conversation happening this way unless the two met up in the finals.  Same as if we had just taken Trae at #3 straight up.  I feel like the conversation would still be "look at everybody who passed on Luka Doncic."  Like the 2003 draft is "everybody the Pistons could have selected other than Darko"...and an equally substantial conversation is Darko himself, who was a bust.  There's no real conversation or popular direct player comparisons about that 2003 draft. There's a little Wade/LeBron convo.  There's nothing about Melo/Bosh.  The only thing people talk about is Darko, how bad Detroit's miss was, and how stacked that draft was.

Same with us in 2005.  We are constantly beating ourselves up over the Marvin Williams selection over Chris Paul.  There was some criticism from the national media early on, but nobody really talked about it other than us following the draft.  Could be because Marvin was a relative bust?  Though what about Deron Williams?  For awhile, there was some comparison but for the most part, people just seemed to accept that both of those guys were good.  Obviously there will always be these comparisons, but looking at a couple of use-cases, they pale in comparison to the HEATED noise surrounding the Trae/Luka debate.  I don't have time to do a lot of digging, and  off the top of my head I can't really think of any other draft comp conversation like this that would fit this narrative.  So if anybody has the time I'd like to see some that support the conversation in either direction.

 

[Wretch]

19 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I don't know if I put Trae with Stockton or Nash due to decision making issues but he's far more of a PG than Luka who's baby LeBron on that end.

I agree, I'm just saying if you want to hold a bar against him...use those guys.  A good debate is whether or not Trae could get to that level/compare to those guys when it's all said and done.  I think that's a more valid comparison than what Luka will ultimately be compared to.

[AHF]

34 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Ehhh..... I don't know if I agree.  There's so many ways to look at that draft.  Let's assume we kept Luka and Dallas (or Orlando who was hot on him) had taken Trae.  Of course this is all subjective, but I feel like the more likely conversation would always be how Bagley and Ayton were taken ahead of Luka.  Same as Darko was taken ahead of Melo.  They don't really talk about Darko over Bosh or Wade, it's always Darko over Melo...even though I'd say Bosh is a good draft comp relatively speaking. 

Would there really be a conversation/comparison with Luka and Trae?  Surely they'd rate talent in that draft and Luka would still be at the top of those ratings, but the bigger story would be the TWO teams who passed on Luka.  I just don't see a Luka vs. Trae conversation happening this way unless the two met up in the finals.  Same as if we had just taken Trae at #3 straight up.  I feel like the conversation would still be "look at everybody who passed on Luka Doncic."  Like the 2003 draft is "everybody the Pistons could have selected other than Darko"...and an equally substantial conversation is Darko himself, who was a bust.  There's no real conversation or popular direct player comparisons about that 2003 draft. There's a little Wade/LeBron convo.  There's nothing about Melo/Bosh.  The only thing people talk about is Darko, how bad Detroit's miss was, and how stacked that draft was.

Same with us in 2005.  We are constantly beating ourselves up over the Marvin Williams selection over Chris Paul.  There was some criticism from the national media early on, but nobody really talked about it other than us following the draft.  Could be because Marvin was a relative bust?  Though what about Deron Williams?  For awhile, there was some comparison but for the most part, people just seemed to accept that both of those guys were good.  Obviously there will always be these comparisons, but looking at a couple of use-cases, they pale in comparison to the HEATED noise surrounding the Trae/Luka debate.  I don't have time to do a lot of digging, and  off the top of my head I can't really think of any other draft comp conversation like this that would fit this narrative.  So if anybody has the time I'd like to see some that support the conversation in either direction.

 

I think we are talking about two different conversations.

You are talking about a conversation about which team made the biggest mistake in the draft by passing on a star for a dud.

I am talking about a conversation that ties two stars together.

[JayBirdHawk]

58 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I feel like the more likely conversation would always be how Bagley and Ayton were taken ahead of Luka.  Same as Darko was taken ahead of Melo.  They don't really talk about Darko over Bosh or Wade, it's always Darko over Melo...even though I'd say Bosh is a good draft comp relatively speaking. 

Would there really be a conversation/comparison with Luka and Trae?  Surely they'd rate talent in that draft and Luka would still be at the top of those ratings, but the bigger story would be the TWO teams who passed on Luka

I agree that this would be more the discussion point. Trae would have more than likely ended up at #6 to Orlando. So not in the top 5 pick discussion.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

I agree, I'm just saying if you want to hold a bar against him...use those guys.  A good debate is whether or not Trae could get to that level/compare to those guys when it's all said and done.  I think that's a more valid comparison than what Luka will ultimately be compared to.

...and here's the thing with those comparisons. Comparing year 4 Trae with these guy's overall career....why not do a year 4 of Stockton and Nash comparison?

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

...and here's the thing with those comparisons. Comparing year 4 Trae with these guy's overall career....why not do a year 4 of Stockton and Nash.

Indeed I agree with this. Trae came in a superstar those dude took a min. more.

[AHF]

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

...and here's the thing with those comparisons. Comparing year 4 Trae with these guy's overall career....why not do a year 4 of Stockton and Nash comparison?

Year 4 or age 23 season comparison makes perfect sense to me and not just for those two.  

Season 4 Trae:  28.4 ppg, 9.7 apg -- .603% TS%

Season 4 AI:  28.4 ppg, 4.7 apg -- .497% TS%

Just crushing gaps in those numbers despite a superficial similarity.

[Wretch]

27 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think we are talking about two different conversations.

You are talking about a conversation about which team made the biggest mistake in the draft by passing on a star for a dud.

I am talking about a conversation that ties two stars together.

I'm gonna say we're having the same conversation, though admittedly I might have digressed a little into a "draft bust mistake" convo.  At the same time, all scenarios I've presented involve the consensus "you should have taken <x>" player.

2003 - You should have taken <Melo>
2005 - You should have taken <Paul>
2018 - You should have taken <Luka>

Whether or not the other player taken was a bust is a sub conversation of that.  You could argue that Marvin Williams isn't the same kind of dud that Darko was.  Most certainly in this conversation, Trae isn't the same kind of miss, if people perceive it that way, as Marvin was - and we're not going to sit here and act like fans and pundits aren't calling our selection of Trae over Luka a miss.

Even tossing the duds/busts aside, there's not a notable conversation or comparisons regarding Deron/Paul or Bosh/Melo.  This fits this discussion.  Everyone is digging deep into this Trae/Luka debate.  I'm contending that this is 99.9% because of them being swapped for each other.  Had they not been traded for each other and had the drafts played out where we select and keep Luka or we take Trae straight up at #3, there would be little to no debate.  The view on the talent selected would be the same as 2003 or 2005.  That is, this was a stacked draft and too bad <these teams> passed on Luka (and probably Trae as well).

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

...and here's the thing with those comparisons. Comparing year 4 Trae with these guy's overall career....why not do a year 4 of Stockton and Nash comparison?

Indeed.  Agreed...all of that is good for the gumbo!

...but unfortunately, we're not civil enough to have the right conversations about any of this. LOL It's all Trae vs. Luka and I'm already over it. My God I rooted so hard against the Mavs this year. I really hate dishing on Luka like that, as he was my guy and I really like him...but FUGGGG the hate and disrespect Trae gets is to tied up in Luka's success.  It's annoying to no end.