Lukastans are biting at the bit to take a shot at Trae

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

  At the same time, all scenarios I've presented involve the consensus "you should have taken <x>" player.

Magic and Bird were linked for their entire career but the conversation was never about "you should have taken <x>" player.

I just see a ton of similarity between Magic / Bird and Trae / Luka so I envision a potential conversation that follows their career paths with people arguing about which is better and whose team is better, etc. like Boston and LA fans argued about which star was better.

[Wretch]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

Magic and Bird were linked for their entire career but the conversation was never about "you should have taken <x>" player.

I just see a ton of similarity between Magic / Bird and Trae / Luka so I envision a potential conversation that follows their career paths with people arguing about which is better and whose team is better, etc. like Boston and LA fans argued about which star was better.

Well, going back to what started this...I have to concede and take a step back.  I suggested that had they not been traded for each other, we would never have this conversation.  If you're saying that eventually these two would be compared, and you are basing the bulk of that presumption on playoff performance/team trajectory in addition to draft position, then I would be inclined to agree. Kobe vs. LeBron drew a ridiculous amount of anticipation and sparked an ongoing debate.  So, yes.  That would be a natural and fair dialogue.  Just them being drafted in the same class, and being able to pass/score, I don't see much of a debate/conversation coming from that - if at all.

I also don't see a fair equivalency with Bird/Magic. They had a rivalry before they even entered the draft - Trae and Luka did not.  Bird and Magic joined already storied franchises LA/Boson - Trae and Luka did not.  LA and Boston had an established rivalry with each other before either Bird or Magic entered the league - Atlanta and Dallas did not and even today does not (outside of we traded Luka for Trae).  Bird and Magic were on a collision course before either of them would have their first professional game together and this all says nothing of their actual Finals battles. To say that Trae and Luka would have sparked that (or even a Kobe Lebron) kind of rivalry debate outside of them being swapped for each other and prior to either of them accomplishing much of anything in the playoffs is a stretch.

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, Wretch said:

The real problem is that Donic is not a comp for Trae and vice/versa.  Trae is a facilitator that can score.  Luka is a scorer that can facilitate.  Trae is a point guard and his comp is closer to someone like Darius Garland.  Historically speaking, it's Steve Nash, John Stockton, Jason Kidd (court vision ), and the ultimate bar Chris Paul (sans the rebounding).

 

The interesting thing my friend is that Trae scores and facilitates better and more efficiently than Luka.

Trae is not Steve Nash out there.

Trae is a freakin Unicorn.

No PG in history has put up the numbers that Trae puts up except Maybe Harden in his MVP seasons  (yes, that's an s because he was cheated). 

 

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, Wretch said:

Ehhh..... I don't know if I agree.  There's so many ways to look at that draft.  Let's assume we kept Luka and Dallas (or Orlando who was hot on him) had taken Trae.  Of course this is all subjective, but I feel like the more likely conversation would always be how Bagley and Ayton were taken ahead of Luka.  Same as Darko was taken ahead of Melo.  They don't really talk about Darko over Bosh or Wade, it's always Darko over Melo...even though I'd say Bosh is a good draft comp relatively speaking. 

Would there really be a conversation/comparison with Luka and Trae? 

 

I think had the trade not gone down and they put up the numbers they are putting up, they would have been compared.   They call Luka a PG. 

It's like this... Trae is constantly compared to Ja Morant also.   And sometimes he is compared to Steph Curry.  You do know that Steph made it a point to go out and drop 50 on the Hawks for one reason...  TO end the talk.

But back to the point,  these are all guys vying for an All NBA place.  It's the same as Embiid being compared to Jokic.   You are compared to your contemporaries. 

Steph and CP3.

Harden and Westbrook. 

The only reason people talk about Darko is because he was a tremendous bust.

 

[Wretch]

13 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I think had the trade not gone down and they put up the numbers they are putting up, they would have been compared.   They call Luka a PG. 

It's like this... Trae is constantly compared to Ja Morant also.   And sometimes he is compared to Steph Curry.  You do know that Steph made it a point to go out and drop 50 on the Hawks for one reason...  TO end the talk.

But back to the point,  these are all guys vying for an All NBA place.  It's the same as Embiid being compared to Jokic.   You are compared to your contemporaries. 

Steph and CP3.

Harden and Westbrook. 

The only reason people talk about Darko is because he was a tremendous bust.

 

The comparisons to Curry were before anybody knew what Trae could do at this level.  I was one of those people.  You're already seeing the Trae/Curry conversation die down though.  That's because Curry is only a point guard by a default positioning label.  He is a shooting guard, combo guard at best (though I hate that label), and is being discussed as the greatest shooter of all time while Trae is being seen for the great point guard he is.  Unless Trae starts curling off of screens and becomes a comparatively efficient shooter, I'm predicting that we'll see an end to the conversation entirely.

Nobody compares Luka to CP3, Nash, or Ja.  They compare Trae to those guys.  They compare Luka to LeBron, Magic, and even Kobe.  They compare Curry to Reggie Miller and the great shooters, not to Stockton, CP3, or Kidd...great PG facilitators.

I'll say it again, had we not traded these two for each other we would not be drawing the same direct comparisons, if at all, between Trae and Luka.  It would be Trae/Garland/Ja/and maybe Melo - and historical comps of those guys to CP3, Stockton, Nash, etc.

[Wretch]

I also have to say that all of these guys are compared to each other regardless of position just by virtue of being the "next generation" of stars.  However, I'm saying the Trae/Luka conversation is much louder than that and has and is spiraling out of validity...and almost entirely due to the trade.

[Diesel]

8 minutes ago, Wretch said:

The comparisons to Curry were before anybody knew what Trae could do at this level.  I was one of those people.  You're already seeing the Trae/Curry conversation die down though.  That's because Curry is only a point guard by a default positioning label.  He is a shooting guard, combo guard at best (though I hate that label), and is being discussed as the greatest shooter of all time while Trae is being seen for the great point guard he is.  Unless Trae starts curling off of screens and becomes a comparatively efficient shooter, I'm predicting that we'll see an end to the conversation entirely.

Nobody compares Luka to CP3, Nash, or Ja.  They compare Trae to those guys.  They compare Luka to LeBron, Magic, and even Kobe.  They compare Curry to Reggie Miller and the great shooters, not to Stockton, CP3, or Kidd...great PG facilitators.

I'll say it again, had we not traded these two for each other we would not be drawing the same direct comparisons, if at all, between Trae and Luka.  It would be Trae/Garland/Ja/and maybe Melo - and historical comps of those guys to CP3, Stockton, Nash, etc.

Honestly, the Trae/Curry comparison is only about Size and halfcourt shot.  You are correct, Trae doesn't play like Steph.  The only player that plays like Trae actually is Luka.   Scorer/Facilitator. 

You can't say that Trae is not a scorer.  He's putting up 28.4... and could probably do more.   He doesn't have the Usage that Luka has because he's more efficient. 

So it breaks down to this... Trae is an engine.   I would say that he's responsible for about 62% of our offense.  I don't think that has been done consistently before.  By anyone.. save maybe Harden. 

I joked the other day and said that Ja's dunks count for 4 pts.  Let's think about Ja.  What does he do better than Trae?  Dunk?  When people figure out that he can't go right... then he will be bbq chicken out there. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wretch]

18 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Honestly, the Trae/Curry comparison is only about Size and halfcourt shot.  You are correct, Trae doesn't play like Steph.  The only player that plays like Trae actually is Luka. 

I only LOL'd at your post because I LITERALLY had those exact words typed up.  Like I agree 100% with everything you said.  Everything.  Trae is legit and should, and would, be mentioned in the same light as Luka had we not traded for him.  Perhaps just a shade off because of the love that scorers get.

...and again, I concur that Trae is a ridiculous scorer in his own right.  Equal to, if not better than the Golden Boy.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

To say that Trae and Luka would have sparked that (or even a Kobe Lebron) kind of rivalry debate outside of them being swapped for each other and prior to either of them accomplishing much of anything in the playoffs is a stretch.

I see an alternate reality where that dialogue develops over time.  Perhaps after they have both made the conference finals, multiple All-Star games, and All-NBA in their first 4 years.  Not something that would have happened on day 1 the way the draft day trade triggered.  More being two guys who are putting historic numbers from the same draft class who have also shown the ability to have a big impact in the post-season.  Agree with you that Magic and Bird had some of that already in place on day 1 but I could see it developing anyway like Duncan vs Garnett, etc.

[Wretch]

23 minutes ago, AHF said:

I see an alternate reality where that dialogue develops over time.  Perhaps after they have both made the conference finals, multiple All-Star games, and All-NBA in their first 4 years.  Not something that would have happened on day 1 the way the draft day trade triggered.  More being two guys who are putting historic numbers from the same draft class who have also shown the ability to have a big impact in the post-season.  Agree with you that Magic and Bird had some of that already in place on day 1 but I could see it developing anyway like Duncan vs Garnett, etc.

I concur. I think it's largely, if not wholly, dependent upon team success as opposed to individual performances...but yeah.  I think there would be a natural conversation regarding the best of that draft class, and the best of the "new generation" of stars, and in that we'd definitely see some of that Trae/Luka comparison.

[hawkman]

4 hours ago, Wretch said:

I also have to say that all of these guys are compared to each other regardless of position just by virtue of being the "next generation" of stars.  However, I'm saying the Trae/Luka conversation is much louder than that and has and is spiraling out of validity...and almost entirely due to the trade.

I agree. If the Hawks just picked Trae at #3 (which I was totally ok with at the time), Trae would most likely be judged on his own merit instead of always being compared to Luka. Ayton, Bagley, and Jackson Jr don't get anywhere near the scrutiny or vitriol Trae gets and none of those guys have had the career Luka or Trae has had so far.

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, hawkman said:

I agree. If the Hawks just picked Trae at #3 (which I was totally ok with at the time), Trae would most likely be judged on his own merit instead of always being compared to Luka. Ayton, Bagley, and Jackson Jr don't get anywhere near the scrutiny or vitriol Trae gets and none of those guys have had the career Luka or Trae has had so far.

People want Trae to fail.   Maybe that's because of the trade.   Maybe it's because of his size and the way he plays the game.. but they want him to fail.   Media people especially. 

 

[MarylandHawk]

On 5/27/2022 at 3:18 PM, Wretch said:

Well, going back to what started this...I have to concede and take a step back.  I suggested that had they not been traded for each other, we would never have this conversation.  If you're saying that eventually these two would be compared, and you are basing the bulk of that presumption on playoff performance/team trajectory in addition to draft position, then I would be inclined to agree. Kobe vs. LeBron drew a ridiculous amount of anticipation and sparked an ongoing debate.  So, yes.  That would be a natural and fair dialogue.  Just them being drafted in the same class, and being able to pass/score, I don't see much of a debate/conversation coming from that - if at all.

I also don't see a fair equivalency with Bird/Magic. They had a rivalry before they even entered the draft - Trae and Luka did not.  Bird and Magic joined already storied franchises LA/Boson - Trae and Luka did not.  LA and Boston had an established rivalry with each other before either Bird or Magic entered the league - Atlanta and Dallas did not and even today does not (outside of we traded Luka for Trae).  Bird and Magic were on a collision course before either of them would have their first professional game together and this all says nothing of their actual Finals battles. To say that Trae and Luka would have sparked that (or even a Kobe Lebron) kind of rivalry debate outside of them being swapped for each other and prior to either of them accomplishing much of anything in the playoffs is a stretch.

I would bet that if we had a Dallas vs Atlanta finals, it would be the most watched ever. The media’s head would explode. Way too many story lines and arguably the two best players of their generation. 

[bird_dirt]

On 4/26/2022 at 12:46 PM, kg01 said:

Aha jokes on you, gif-meister.  She's my Katy Perry.  Ask @Sothron about that while I type with one hand. 

Dragging up this thread because I just saw this and had to share with @kg01 & @AHF:

 

 

 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, bird_dirt said:

Dragging up this thread because I just saw this and had to share with @kg01 & @AHF:

 

 

 

I love Katie. I’m the biggest groupie here!

 

ps I just saw this at the mall.. it is horrible.

[kg01]

2 hours ago, bird_dirt said:

Dragging up this thread because I just saw this and had to share with @kg01 & @AHF:

 

 

 

Sorry, bro.  Can't type with one hand .....

[RandomFan]

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

Sorry, bro.  Can't type with one hand .....

 

[MarylandHawk]

On 5/28/2022 at 1:43 AM, Diesel said:

People want Trae to fail.   Maybe that's because of the trade.   Maybe it's because of his size and the way he plays the game.. but they want him to fail.   Media people especially. 

 

It seems kind if ridiculous. The general population usually always roots for the little guy.  Dunk contests, conerbacks, boxing etc. if there is a little guy holding his own, he usually gets the benefit of the doubt. It is weird how far people are willing to go to to seem him fail. Lucky for us this just fuels his fire. 

[macdaddy]

20 hours ago, MarylandHawk said:

It seems kind if ridiculous. The general population usually always roots for the little guy.  Dunk contests, conerbacks, boxing etc. if there is a little guy holding his own, he usually gets the benefit of the doubt. It is weird how far people are willing to go to to seem him fail. Lucky for us this just fuels his fire. 

That's a great point.   Isaiah got more love than Trae but that's probably about who he played for. 

[Spud2nique]

20 hours ago, MarylandHawk said:

It seems kind if ridiculous. The general population usually always roots for the little guy.  Dunk contests, conerbacks, boxing etc. if there is a little guy holding his own, he usually gets the benefit of the doubt. It is weird how far people are willing to go to to seem him fail. Lucky for us this just fuels his fire. 

Good. I want it that way. Fake love ain’t for us.