The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[sturt]

4 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Use spotrac. Its much easier to understand once you take a minute to read it and its updated more frequently.

 

See bolded below.

 

2022-23 Luxury Tax Totals

Denotes the Hawks current standing in terms of the luxury tax threshold. Teams that spend over the threshold pay fines (estimated below).

TYPE		TOTALS
2022 NBA Luxury Tax Threshold		$149,000,000
Total Taxable Salaries		$152,789,507
Current Luxury Tax Space		$-3,789,507
Est. Luxury Tax Bill		$5,684,261

 

2022-23 Atlanta Hawks Salary Cap Totals

The Hawks are currently over the league salary cap. This means Cap Holds & Exceptions are NOT included in their Total Cap Allocations, and renouncing these figures will not afford them any cap space. The team may only sign outside players using any available exceptions or at league minimum salaries.

CAP TYPE	CAP TOTAL
Active Roster Cap	$152,789,507
Cap Holds	$59,740,522
Total Cap Allocations	$212,530,029
Salary Cap Maximum
2022 NBA Salary Cap Max	$122,000,000
Current Cap Space	$-90,530,029

 

I haven't tried it recently, but Spotrac also has that "Manage Roster" thingee too. It still seemed to have some kinks in it when they first released it, so I set it aside. But I'd think they've got it all ironed out by now.

[Wretch]

Now that I'm all caught up from Friday (whew!)

On 5/27/2022 at 6:26 PM, NBASupes said:

NBA Around the League News  

{snip}

Wizards: Atlanta has serious interest in Beal but Beal is signing the supermax so adios to that. Washington like Orlando has pieces that interest teams around the league but teams balk at the price.

{snip}

Nothing shakes me to my core harder than this.  I can only hope that @thecampster's comments about posturing & disinfo tactics because...... LORDT.........  Ya'll educate me please.  Is size just not a thing?  Size AND defense...but really, is size just not a thing?  Am I just biased against small-ball...?  I thought this was just something teams did in short bursts to generate quick offense.  I can't believe that Travis would consider pairing Trae with Beal.  It just seems so....bad to me.

On 5/27/2022 at 11:13 PM, JTB said:

Nope! I just completely ignored it and decided to only comment on the part that I have an agenda towards.

learned that from a certain someone …..

Oh boy....lol There has been some memorable banter this offseason, but this one will hold a special place in my heart for many moons to come. ROMFFLMMFAO!!!!!!!

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

If OO is the real thing.. why are we talking about trading for Ayton and Gobert??

I'll say a couple of things about OO, starting with the point you bring up here...  Aside from how people feel about OO's ceiling or floor, ultimately this is a question that has to be answered.  It also brings up more rotational questions with the other frontcourt guys we have.  To me it seems that our Ayton/Gobert talk is almost mutually exclusive to our reported value of OO's ceiling.

As for OO himself, I haven't changed my opinion on him.  Primarily, if we've drafted a backup big with the #6 pick, I would call that a "less than inspiring get" if I'm being gentle...if not, then call that a miss.  You don't aim for "solid backups" with picks that high.  Worst case, you deal that player or pick and/or pawn it off as potential to get more tangible value while you can.

I do like his hustle and his potential as a defensive anchor.  Offensively, I love his knack for moving in the lane and finishing (and as a rim-runner).  I'm just not seeing a face-up/post-up/stretch-big potential that would get me excited.  TBH, what I'm seeing from him wouldn't move me even if he was an early-mid teens pick.  Seriously.  All things being equal, put them in the same draft and give me a trade down for John Collins at 19th vs. Okongwu at say...13th.  All day long.

Again, I don't hate Okongwu...  Just my standards for lottery picks are high.  Certainly for the #6, he's gotta do more than rebound, block shots, and catch lobs.  Sorry @Spud2nique lol I know you're keeping notes.

[Spud2nique]

8 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Again, I don't hate Okongwu...  Just my standards for lottery picks are high.  Certainly for the #6, he's gotta do more than rebound, block shots, and catch lobs.  Sorry @Spud2nique lol I know you're keeping notes.

[Peoriabird]

10 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Now that I'm all caught up from Friday (whew!)

Nothing shakes me to my core harder than this.  I can only hope that @thecampster's comments about posturing & disinfo tactics because...... LORDT.........  Ya'll educate me please.  Is size just not a thing?  Size AND defense...but really, is size just not a thing?  Am I just biased against small-ball...?  I thought this was just something teams did in short bursts to generate quick offense.  I can't believe that Travis would consider pairing Trae with Beal.  It just seems so....bad to me.

Oh boy....lol There has been some memorable banter this offseason, but this one will hold a special place in my heart for many moons to come. ROMFFLMMFAO!!!!!!!

 

Schlenk and his rumor mill has been making me nervous for a while now.

[Spud2nique]

11 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I'm just not seeing a face-up/post-up/stretch-big potential that would get me excited. 

You gotta give him some time.  (This summer face up coming)
 

13 minutes ago, Wretch said:

lol I know you're keeping notes.

 

[kg01]

29 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Now that I'm all caught up from Friday (whew!)....

Whoa, whoa, whoa ... aye @Spud2nique, did wretch 'like' any of your posts as he was getting "caught up from Friday"?

[JeffS17]

21 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Schlenk and his rumor mill has been making me nervous for a while now.

Same, but I also think that releasing interests in 10+ guys makes it so you have more perceived leverage in negotiations for the player you REALLY want.  If we're only interested in Ayton and the Suns know that, they have all the leverage.  I would be shocked if Schlenk brought in Beal or a guy like Randle, but I still understand the need to keep all options open so you have more leverage in negotiations. 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

That I suppose fits the technical dictionary definition, but mine is somewhat nuanced... by "heathen," I'm suggesting someone who has no moral code that they live by at all, and thus, live their lives pretty much for themselves and in a chronic pursuit of their own pleasure.

 

... back to basketball...

 

Never heard of the word being used that way but I'm on board.  People who are part of a church and people who are not religious would fall into both the "heathen" and "not heathen" categories as you define them.  The way you use the word aligns very closely with my view on things.  I've met very few people who don't have any moral standards / code but we all see too many people who behave as if they don't have a moral code and are fundamentally selfish a way that makes the world worse for the people around them and fully agree with you on your take on those people.  

[Sothron]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I haven't heard of interest from Atlanta on Grant of late. I did during the trade deadline and they dropped out of the race. 

@Sothron and @thecampster. What do you have on Grant?

That's pretty much the same from me. There was interest in him but Detroit wanted too much and the Hawks dropped out. I can only think we're talking again if the team has another trade lined up to send JC out and we need another PF in.

[ShooterSays]

With all the Randle and Grant rumors, maybe there is some truth to what Supes has been saying of OO being the every-day starter at 4, with Randle and Grant being brought in as expensive insurance policies.

In this case, I think we'd be losing JC in a Lavine trade as I don't see him being needed in a Gobert / Ayton swap.

[AHF]

52 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Again, I don't hate Okongwu...  Just my standards for lottery picks are high.  Certainly for the #6, he's gotta do more than rebound, block shots, and catch lobs.  Sorry @Spud2nique lol I know you're keeping notes.

One thing I love about Okongwu is something that doesn't show up in many stats - the ability he has to stick with a man anywhere on the floor and guard both in the interior and perimeter.  Rebounding and shot blocking numbers aren't a proxy for being an exceptional man defender.  For example, Andre Drummond can excel in those categories when given enough minutes but I don't trust him for a second to be able to stay with Giannis or frankly any perimeter based player.  OO can switch and I think has elite upside as far as what I see as his ceiling for gluing himself to his man in a way that results in higher turnovers (even if they don't show up on OO's sheet) and lower FG% on shot attempts.  Just don't expect to see any of that when perusing his box score.  If Spud is right and he comes back with a face up game, that will generate some more numbers in the box score.  Plenty of others ways to do that too (improving on boxing out, generating more steals and blocks with his active hands and long arms, etc.) but his ability to make life difficult for his man is something to me that really stands out for him and there have been plenty of truly great defenders who didn't generate huge numbers but had that skill such as Tony Allen or our own Thabo Sefalosha.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

With all the Randle and Grant rumors, maybe there is some truth to what Supes has been saying of OO being the every-day starter at 4, with Randle and Grant being brought in as expensive insurance policies.

In this case, I think we'd be losing JC in a Lavine trade as I don't see him being needed in a Gobert / Ayton swap.

I can't really see bringing in a Randle or Grant if you think OO is ready to take the keys to the car.  Both of those guys are used to or want to be the hub for their team and don't work nearly as well in the "expensive insurance policies" which is really the role that Gallo fit for us when coming in to play behind JC.  I would think we would be seeing a much more significant role for either of those guys if we acquired them than 'insurance policy.'

[JeffS17]

15 minutes ago, AHF said:

Never heard of the word being used that way but I'm on board.  People who are part of a church and people who are not religious would fall into both the "heathen" and "not heathen" categories as you define them.  The way you use the word aligns very closely with my view on things.  I've met very few people who don't have any moral standards / code but we all see too many people who behave as if they don't have a moral code and are fundamentally selfish a way that makes the world worse for the people around them and fully agree with you on your take on those people.  

Hedonist is probably more technically accurate word for what you guys are describing, heathen is more specific than that as it narrows to people who are religious or not -- not necessarily someone who doesn't have a moral code, whereas a hedonist (practices "hedonism") is someone who just seeks out selfish desires/pleasure.  I think historically the two words were much closer to being synonyms than today as a lot of people have rejected organized religion but still follow the same core principles and virtues 

[ShooterSays]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

I can't really see bringing in a Randle or Grant if you think OO is ready to take the keys to the car.  Both of those guys are used to or want to be the hub for their team and don't work nearly as well in the "expensive insurance policies" which is really the role that Gallo fit for us when coming in to play behind JC.  I would think we would be seeing a much more significant role for either of those guys if we acquired them than 'insurance policy.'

They'd still get all the backup 4 minutes, can even split time with OO playing Center in some lineups. I'd image 28 - 30 mins per game which is a big role. Galo got 25 mpg this year.

The insurance is in case OO isn't ready to start at the 4 and they need to be cast into the starting lineup. 

[Spud2nique]

37 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Whoa, whoa, whoa ... aye @Spud2nique, did wretch 'like' any of your posts as he was getting "caught up from Friday"?

Hol up… are you saying what I think you’re saying? Daddy and Wretch are one and the same, or are dey in bed togetha ?{mafia voice}

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

One thing I love about Okongwu is something that doesn't show up in many stats - the ability he has to stick with a man anywhere on the floor and guard both in the interior and perimeter.  Rebounding and shot blocking numbers aren't a proxy for being an exceptional man defender.  For example, Andre Drummond can excel in those categories when given enough minutes but I don't trust him for a second to be able to stay with Giannis or frankly any perimeter based player.  OO can switch and I think has elite upside as far as what I see as his ceiling for gluing himself to his man in a way that results in higher turnovers (even if they don't show up on OO's sheet) and lower FG% on shot attempts.  Just don't expect to see any of that when perusing his box score.  If Spud is right and he comes back with a face up game, that will generate some more numbers in the box score.  Plenty of others ways to do that too (improving on boxing out, generating more steals and blocks with his active hands and long arms, etc.) but his ability to make life difficult for his man is something to me that really stands out for him and there have been plenty of truly great defenders who didn't generate huge numbers but had that skill such as Tony Allen or our own Thabo Sefalosha.

Some admissions on my part...

1) I tend to REALLY shoot from the hip when I talk/post and often the words come out one way and perhaps convey something else.  I'm not a straight numbers guy - advanced or otherwise.  I'm more of an "eyeball test" guy that looks at basic numbers in retrospect.  I also like numbers that suggest correlation.  For example, when the board was arguing about Chris Paul and his height ~17 years ago, I continually pointed to his defense, the number of trips he took to the FT line, and his rebounding numbers relative to his size.  So I understand these takeaways and it's why I actually like players like OO.  When I say that he has to do more than "rebound, block shots, and catch lobs" it's less an observational take away and more of a generalized hyperbole.

2) More importantly, and why I fawn over a guys like Montrezl Harrell, Clint Capela, Ben Wallace, or even Charles Oakley and seem to sell on OO is strictly because of draft position.  I'm of the opinion that solid players who's greatest selling point is their intangibles (offensive or defensive) are plentiful and are available all over the draft, are readily available via trade, and relatively easy to sign as FA's.  The latter being especially true when you have a good squad.  Serviceable guys that play the game the right way will take a discount to hop on a contender.  In short, again, it's not that I'm not excited about him (or players like him) it's that I'm not excited relative to where we drafted him.  I'd expect to see more - and not just in the box score.  It's a hill that I'll die on for whatever that's worth. 

[Spud2nique]

32 minutes ago, Wretch said:

1) I tend to REALLY shoot from the hip

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/92ec756f-8739-43be-aef0-b645c900f202

[Spud2nique]

33 minutes ago, Wretch said:

"eyeball test"

[sturt]

41 minutes ago, Wretch said:

observational take away and more of a generalized hyperbole.

@kg01... this is much too high fallutin terminology to be comin from merely @Spud2nique's alter ego.

There would have to be some legitimate schizophrenia going on here.

41 minutes ago, Wretch said:

In short, again, it's not that I'm not excited about him (or players like him) it's that I'm not excited relative to where we drafted him.  I'd expect to see more - and not just in the box score.  It's a hill that I'll die on for whatever that's worth. 

Getting back to why we're actually here... yeah, I hear that, though my instant reaction is that Big2O is among the most developmentally stunted players in his rookie class simply because he came out of the gate so late due to his foot, and then virtually the same thing happened in his sophomore season due to his shoulder (it was his shoulder, right?). He's not had a training camp yet.

And stir into that mix he was one of the youngest (or the youngest?) coming out in 2020.

And stir into that mix... broken record alert... the Great Recession, which didn't affect him so much as it affected the stability of the rest of the team, with ripple effects such that the 2021-22 team never really found a consistent rhythm. It was the definition of a wasted season b/c the entire roster of Real Hawks was actually at McM's disposal for... what... 5 games total? Something like that.

People like to go the cynical route and claim, "Aw, that's just an excuse." Call it an excuse or call it a reason, I call it a condition. There were conditions that had impact, undeniably, on the team's and on individuals' development.

 

THIS is Big2Os first chance to go to training camp and play a full season, and with the benefit of knowing something about what he's doing and what's expected/needed from him.

I'm bullish. I think he gets the opportunity to be relied upon for jumpers out to 18 feet, and his form has always suggested he's got what it takes for that much. At least as importantly, though, this will be the season when he has to begin to show the defensive flashes we've seen are more than just flashes, but rather he consistently from game to game from opposing player to opposing player is a defensive monster.
 

Aside: Big2O was the second most affected. Most affected was Jalen. If you go back and look, you'll find that not only did Jalen only play 13 games of college ball total, he only played 9 (!) games as a senior in high school. That's 22 games in two years. And so, there could be no doubt when Schlenk drafted him, there was a full understanding the most you could hope for is some contribution late in the season--but even that was dashed, then, when Jalen had his own health issues mid-year, staggering his development.

 

[Spud2nique]

36 minutes ago, Wretch said:

In short, again, it's not that I'm not excited about him (or players like him) it's that I'm not excited relative to where we drafted him.  I'd expect to see more - and not just in the box score.  It's a hill that I'll die on for whatever that's worth. 

I think it’s a height and size thing that won’t allow you to get past this. Let me ask you this, what if we had picked a guy like Wiseman, who had the stature as far as size and measurements but didn’t know how to play pro basketball? How would we feel then? 
 

Just trying to break the stereotype for big men having to have certain measurements. 
 

Plus, you could say that you could find a journeyman late in the draft on a guard prospect as well. Manu was picked in the 2nd round but could have been the 6th pick in his draft as well.

Give him this upcoming year. You will be elated I guarantee it. If you aren’t l, I’ll officially change my name to Squd.