The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, thecampster said:

Doesn't mean he didn't say it too. 

 

Ya I know I did just not desperate enough to look it up.. I don’t really care. 

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, kg01 said:

Whaaaat?  I thought you knew it all, supey. 

And y'all leave my guy, @Spud2nique alone.

I have no idea what the argument is but I get my boy's back.

No argument just some friends conveniently forgetting who said what. it ain’t the first time but I ain’t surprised either. I go shoot now. Hoops  

[sturt]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

Nah but at least I ain’t someone’s cheerleader or groupie.   

 

The sonic boom you may have just heard is that comment flying over my head.

[Diesel]

12 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

That's the point Diesel. Other teams got better and developed counterattacks for what we had. We have no counterpunch and we needed that. We needed something else for teams to think about and we didn't get it. 

No.. They didn't...

This is the problem... you watched us limp into the playoffs and got beat and came back with the thought that other teams got better with better counterattacks.   NO.. not true.

Milwaukee didn't get better.   Philly didn't get better.   Brooklyn.. didn't get better.   Boston... didn't get Better.  Miami didn't get better.  Toronto didn't get better.  NY didn't get better (even though they added different core players). 

These were the same teams and they did the same things.  There were only 2 teams that got better in the East:  Cleveland and Chicago.   Those are the only two teams that had changes in personnel that led to them being better. 

Nobody's counterattacks got better either.  Do you know that for the last 4 years, teams have been trying to surround Trae because he was our guy...  That's nothing new.  Go back and watch what NY and Philly tried to do to us last year.   The thing that stopped them then was JC and Clint with the lobs and the back doors attacking the rim.   Why do you think the PNR was so effective for us???  It keeps teams honest.  They can't bust the PNR if you have players that can attack the basket off ball.   That's JC's job.

Watch this clip it shows what happens when a defense tries to bring an extra player into the 1-5 PNR..

It's that same on Stockton Malone type play.. they perfected the backdoor cut/pop out. 

JC couldn't go in the playoffs and Clint wasn't the picker... OO is not fluent in PNR.   Miami had us served up and their coach knew that we didn't have the personnel to stop them.

So... here's another video.. just watch the play at about 48 seconds... This is Hawks Heat and it shows how Trae normally handled the triple team...

 

[sturt]

27 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

Other teams got better

WhatchutalkinboutWillis?

Than .621???

Not many.

This is fallacious thinking that is going to lead us into a very dark place if Schlenk's not sober to Real Hawks body of work.

You're no doubt talking about Gumbo Hawks... which will never (*knocks on wood*) grade the State Farm hardwood again.

 

[Threezus]

As far as Rudy to the Hawks goes for me i don't mind him coming here he is a good player. But for me it also ends all discussions when they ask for  Capela + any of Trae, Collins, Hunter, or Okongwu in the trade as well.    You can pretty much ask for anything else on the team with any combination and i'll more than likely give it a good look over and accept most the time.  I might even be ok with adding Okongwu in there although i want more than Rudy coming back if we do Capela + Okongwu and 16.   But still Trae, Hunter, or Collins added + capela = automatic no because where as it is a bit of a upgrade over capela i think it makes us a whole a worse team.

[JTB]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

Recognizing that I'm probably asking a fool question, is this Gobert talk anything more than just media / internet rumors and /or two teams having mutual interest but no real movement toward a deal yet?  Or as an insider is this actually something you've heard is likely happening and now we are discussing the ramifications of the deal on the Squawk?  
 

I'm just curious if this is a legit happening or just us discussing media rumors at this point?  And I understand nothing happens until it happens, but hopefully you get what I'm asking.  

No one is going to say a deal is happening for sure but even if our insiders here didn’t report anything I believe there is real true interest in acquiring Gobert and trading JC even if some don’t want to believe it.

as far as the squawk goes for some reason Jake Fischer report seem to have really lit a fire in the national media regarding Hawks and  Gobert ….it’s not really shocking news but it seem to have more of a pull.

 

I for one believe a framework deal was really discussed for Gobert and Ayton by the hawks. We will see what happens. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

He's been a better scorer and shooter than Trae. Better defender. 

 

I won't count last year for Lillard, seeing that he was hurt.  Let's compare Lillard 2018 = 2021 to Trae 2019 - 2022.  Both are 3 season stretches.

 

PPG

• Lillard - 28.0
• Trae - 27.8 . . . . last season:  28.4

REBS

• Lillard - 4.4 
• Trae - 3.9 . . . . . last season:  3.7

ASST

• Lillard - 7.4
• Trae - 9.5 . . . . . last season:  9.7

STLS

• Lillard - 1.0
• Trae - 1.0 . . . . . last season: 0.9

TOs

• Lillard - 2.9
• Trae - 4.3 . . . . . last season:  4.0

FG%

• Lillard - 45.2%
• Trae - 44.7% . . . last season:  46.0%

3FG%

• Lillard - 38.7%
• Trae - 36.4% . . . last season:  38.2%

FT%

• Lillard - 90.9%
• Trae - 88.4% . . . last season:  90.4%

eFG%

• Lillard - 54.5%
• Trae - 52.0% . . . last season:  53.6%

 

 

ORtg

• Lillard - 124 
• Trae - 117 . . . . . . last season:  119

DRtg

• Lillard - 116
• Trae - 117 . . . . . .  last season:  118

PER

• Lillard - 25.4
• Trae - 24.2 . . . . . . last season:  25.4

TS%

• Lillard - 61.2%
• Trae - 59.8% . . . . . last season:  60.3%

WS/48

• Lillard - .213 
• Trae - .160 . . . . . . . last season:  .181

OBPM

• Lillard - 7.5 
• Trae - 6.3 . . . . . . . . last season:  7.1

DBPM

• Lillard - ( -0.8 )
• Trae - (  -2.0 ) . . . . . last season:  ( -2.0 )

BPM

• Lillard - 6.7
• Trae - 4.3 . . . . . . . . . last season:  5.2

 

Just showing people how close that Trae is right now, to PRIME Lillard.  And his season last year was very Lillard-like.

The biggest detriment to Trae's game is his turnovers, which has a negative impact on his advanced metrics.  The turnover also affect his defensive numbers, seeing that a good number of Trae's turnovers lead to fast break points. 

There's no doubt that having CJ McCollum as a backcourt running mate, helped Lillard achieve some of his greatness, because you couldn't just lock in and double Lillard.  If you did that, CJ would kill you.

This would be a big reason why adding an All-Star caliber guard or wing with Trae, could make him even more efficient as a player.

[georgia]

Gobert for Capela and huerter is 5 million off.    Collins for pick 7 won’t work with the cap.    None of this works?     Sorry if I missed the discussion 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, GameTime said:

SEE I CAN DO THIS TOO!

 

 

I was just curious to see how the Rudy pick and roll looked, with Mitchell and Conley throwing him passes.  No one runs the pick and roll better than Trae, so he's going to make any big look better.

[terrell]

14 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

I won't count last year for Lillard, seeing that he was hurt.  Let's compare Lillard 2018 = 2021 to Trae 2019 - 2022.  Both are 3 season stretches.

 

PPG

• Lillard - 28.0
• Trae - 27.8 . . . . last season:  28.4

REBS

• Lillard - 4.4 
• Trae - 3.9 . . . . . last season:  3.7

ASST

• Lillard - 7.4
• Trae - 9.5 . . . . . last season:  9.7

STLS

• Lillard - 1.0
• Trae - 1.0 . . . . . last season: 0.9

TOs

• Lillard - 2.9
• Trae - 4.3 . . . . . last season:  4.0

FG%

• Lillard - 45.2%
• Trae - 44.7% . . . last season:  46.0%

3FG%

• Lillard - 38.7%
• Trae - 36.4% . . . last season:  38.2%

FT%

• Lillard - 90.9%
• Trae - 88.4% . . . last season:  90.4%

eFG%

• Lillard - 54.5%
• Trae - 52.0% . . . last season:  53.6%

 

 

ORtg

• Lillard - 124 
• Trae - 117 . . . . . . last season:  119

DRtg

• Lillard - 116
• Trae - 117 . . . . . .  last season:  118

PER

• Lillard - 25.4
• Trae - 24.2 . . . . . . last season:  25.4

TS%

• Lillard - 61.2%
• Trae - 59.8% . . . . . last season:  60.3%

WS/48

• Lillard - .213 
• Trae - .160 . . . . . . . last season:  .181

OBPM

• Lillard - 7.5 
• Trae - 6.3 . . . . . . . . last season:  7.1

DBPM

• Lillard - ( -0.8 )
• Trae - (  -2.0 ) . . . . . last season:  ( -2.0 )

BPM

• Lillard - 6.7
• Trae - 4.3 . . . . . . . . . last season:  5.2

 

Just showing people how close that Trae is right now, to PRIME Lillard.  And his season last year was very Lillard-like.

The biggest detriment to Trae's game is his turnovers, which has a negative impact on his advanced metrics.  The turnover also affect his defensive numbers, seeing that a good number of Trae's turnovers lead to fast break points. 

There's no doubt that having CJ McCollum as a backcourt running mate, helped Lillard achieve some of his greatness, because you couldn't just lock in and double Lillard.  If you did that, CJ would kill you.

This would be a big reason why adding an All-Star caliber guard or wing with Trae, could make him even more efficient as a player.

So it's CJ who you want beside Trae?

Here's your guy then.... 

He should be there at 16... lol

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by terrell

[Wretch]

10 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

There's no doubt that having CJ McCollum as a backcourt running mate, helped Lillard achieve some of his greatness, because you couldn't just lock in and double Lillard.  If you did that, CJ would kill you.

This would be a big reason why adding an All-Star caliber guard or wing with Trae, could make him even more efficient as a player.

I mean...this isn't complicated and it's not like we haven't been watching it the past 2-3 seasons.

Regardless of how well we execute defensively, we're not going to just come down and set up the pick and roll...no matter who's cutting.  We will keep seeing that junk defense against the penetration and it's a coin toss as to whether or not the remnants of our offense can hit an open shot.  We may slow the game down to a defensive grind, but the timely shots that guys like Tatum and Brown are hitting will be the difference.  On the other end, we will have Trae standing off to the side watching Rudy/Capela/JC/OO or whoever fumble around in the paint and/or brick after brick raining from the perimeter. 

Getting bigger/tougher solves one part of the puzzle.  Which I'm good with.  We will still need a 2nd go to scorer.

[kg01]

37 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

I won't count last year for Lillard, seeing that he was hurt.  Let's compare Lillard 2018 = 2021 to Trae 2019 - 2022.  Both are 3 season stretches.

 

PPG

• Lillard - 28.0
• Trae - 27.8 . . . . last season:  28.4

REBS

• Lillard - 4.4 
• Trae - 3.9 . . . . . last season:  3.7

ASST

• Lillard - 7.4
• Trae - 9.5 . . . . . last season:  9.7

STLS

• Lillard - 1.0
• Trae - 1.0 . . . . . last season: 0.9

TOs

• Lillard - 2.9
• Trae - 4.3 . . . . . last season:  4.0

FG%

• Lillard - 45.2%
• Trae - 44.7% . . . last season:  46.0%

3FG%

• Lillard - 38.7%
• Trae - 36.4% . . . last season:  38.2%

FT%

• Lillard - 90.9%
• Trae - 88.4% . . . last season:  90.4%

eFG%

• Lillard - 54.5%
• Trae - 52.0% . . . last season:  53.6%

 

 

ORtg

• Lillard - 124 
• Trae - 117 . . . . . . last season:  119

DRtg

• Lillard - 116
• Trae - 117 . . . . . .  last season:  118

PER

• Lillard - 25.4
• Trae - 24.2 . . . . . . last season:  25.4

TS%

• Lillard - 61.2%
• Trae - 59.8% . . . . . last season:  60.3%

WS/48

• Lillard - .213 
• Trae - .160 . . . . . . . last season:  .181

OBPM

• Lillard - 7.5 
• Trae - 6.3 . . . . . . . . last season:  7.1

DBPM

• Lillard - ( -0.8 )
• Trae - (  -2.0 ) . . . . . last season:  ( -2.0 )

BPM

• Lillard - 6.7
• Trae - 4.3 . . . . . . . . . last season:  5.2

 

Just showing people how close that Trae is right now, to PRIME Lillard.  And his season last year was very Lillard-like.

The biggest detriment to Trae's game is his turnovers, which has a negative impact on his advanced metrics.  The turnover also affect his defensive numbers, seeing that a good number of Trae's turnovers lead to fast break points. 

There's no doubt that having CJ McCollum as a backcourt running mate, helped Lillard achieve some of his greatness, because you couldn't just lock in and double Lillard.  If you did that, CJ would kill you.

This would be a big reason why adding an All-Star caliber guard or wing with Trae, could make him even more efficient as a player.

I'm confused.  My guy told me Lillllr'd was a tier above Trae in every way.  

23 minutes ago, terrell said:

So it's CJ who you want beside Trae?

Here's your guy then.... 

If it's CJ who you want beside Trae, here's your guy ..

Stop putting these rookies in the category of seasoned NBA pros.

#NoMoreTanking

[terrell]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

I'm confused.  My guy told me Lillllr'd was a tier above Trae in every way.  

If it's CJ who you want beside Trae, here's your guy ..

Stop putting these rookies in the category of seasoned NBA pros.

#NoMoreTanking

Thats my comparison dude.. Chill...

[JTB]

18 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I mean...this isn't complicated and it's not like we haven't been watching it the past 2-3 seasons.

Regardless of how well we execute defensively, we're not going to just come down and set up the pick and roll...no matter who's cutting.  We will keep seeing that junk defense against the penetration and it's a coin toss as to whether or not the remnants of our offense can hit an open shot.  We may slow the game down to a defensive grind, but the timely shots that guys like Tatum and Brown are hitting will be the difference.  On the other end, we will have Trae standing off to the side watching Rudy/Capela/JC/OO or whoever fumble around in the paint and/or brick after brick raining from the perimeter. 

Getting bigger/tougher solves one part of the puzzle.  Which I'm good with.  We will still need a 2nd go to scorer.

Yeah I for one didn’t see a huge defensive overhaul coming and it’s not for sure it is coming. To your point you made you listed JC in your comments and while I 100% agree he’s not a true 2nd scoring option keeping him would strongly help the offense.

but say we trade JC as the strong rumors suggest and hawks draft aggressive defensive minded soon to be rookie Dyson Daniel and the Hawks roll out a lineup of Trae-Daniel-Hunter-OO-Gobert…..I’m not excited about this lineup offensively but I’m extremely excited about the lineups height, length, aggressiveness, and defensive abilities! 
 

See I agree that the offense doesn’t get upgraded here unless the rookie surprises us and Hunter can show some real true promise which is a long shot for both but if you want to put defense around Trae and treat this like the 2001 Iverson/Larry Brown 76ers this is definitely the way to go!  

[JTB]

2 hours ago, NekiEcko said:

I think it is okay idea with Gobert and Daniels plus we will get more help in the next couple of offseason, so it is a good idea for now

Yeah I don’t think it’s a bad idea and I really do believe Trae/Gobert team will get us 50 wins minimum but the playoffs is what will really be looked at since that’s where Goberts fans or non fans pay most attention to him.

I will say that the Gobert haters have to chill on the playoff stuff. Sometimes it’s all about fitting in on the right team and being able to do what you do best comfortably (Wiggins).

Those jazz teams did not try to put good defenders around Gobert and the hawks approach would likely be completely different! If Gobert is DPOY on a team of bad perimeter defenders then what kind of impact is he going to have when he could possibly have strong perimeter defenders beside him?!….he’s already damn good defensively what does he look like when Hunter is locking down his guy or when OO is defending these top PFs at a high level ???

See thats the difference we’d be looking at. Making what he does great already even better by putting more than competent defenders around him. 

[NekiEcko]

1 hour ago, georgia said:

Gobert for Capela and huerter is 5 million off.    Collins for pick 7 won’t work with the cap.    None of this works?     Sorry if I missed the discussion 

Yeah, you missed it and you have to reread everything, and it does work with the cap with Collins for pick 7 if you added salary from other players

[georgia]

Thank you.   Bledsoe and Winslow I’d guess with pick 7?

[NekiEcko]

2 minutes ago, georgia said:

Thank you.   Bledsoe and Winslow I’d guess with pick 7?

only Bledsoe (NG) + Pick 7

[RedDawg#8]

Gobert’s teams have never gone past the second round. Not a single time.

Goberts team finished 1st place in 2021. Still got bounced out in round 2. The only other years he made the playoffs they were no higher than the 5th seed on 4 different occasions, and finished 6th the other time. That is him “raising our floor”.

Gobert’s teams have been eliminated by the Mavs, Clippers, Nuggets, Rockets, Rockets, Warriors. All of those teams beat the Jazz because of elite play from guards or wings. Even the Nuggets with Jokic, got past Utah because Jamal Murray went OFF against them. 

Why is that? Because Gobert cannot slow anyone down outside of the paint. All that elite defense and he was neutralized by putting a stretch big in the corner that he had to honor, and they just worked the other 2/3’s  of the court.

My point. We NEED improved play from the SG position on both ends. Gobert doesn’t defend guards. That is what we are lacking on this team. 

As many stated, we can keep Clint or get Ayton for less. We will be weak defensively no matter what until Trae gets another defender next to him.

Gobert has not gotten out of the 2nd round. I cannot stress this enough. He has NO impact when the games matter most. ZERO. He is on the WRONG side of 30 as a big man. Meaning he will NOT live anywhere near up to his contract in a few years once his lower body starts to age and he can’t move away from the paint just like he barely can now.

If we do not sure up our perimeter defense we are in big trouble. Does not matter who is on the backline when our guards are playing like matadors.

Gobert cannot defend wings and guards. That is why Utah routinely gets bounced every single year. 

We already have OO who has proven in just 2 seasons that he can hang with both Giannis and Joel, the only 2 big men worth fearing in our conference. We do not lack defense from the 5 position. We have 48 minutes of Clint and OO, who combined will cost 15 million less than Gobert annually.

Meanwhile, we have 30 million+ tied up in 2 SG’s who cannot defend their position, and cannot consistently punish teams for trapping Trae.

This is not rocket science people. There is a clear problem on the roster and Gobert does not fix it AT ALL.