Upgrade coming per Schlenk

[Hawkmoor]

Draft Jalen Johnson .

[Wretch]

I don't understand the "what we should have done" conversation.  I'm not happy with the season and I certainly felt like we needed upgrades.  Even after the run to the ECF's, it was apparent that we needed an upgrade to get to the next level.  However, it's not like we went all-in on this crew.  They overachieved and looked great in the process.  The right thing to do was tweak the team and see how it fared running it back.

Schlenk did that.  Delon was a good pick up and Dieng was initially looking like a decent pick up.  Nate brought in his own staff.  I guess I've seen previous management REFUSE to move after YEARS of ineptitude (like the historic Orlando sweep) and so much terrible GM'ing in general that I'm unable to draw a fair comparison to what others perceive as Schlenk mistakes - to include Travis himself.

I can say that he's on the clock now.  I'd say it started at this year's trade deadline, but certainly the pressure is on to right the ship this summer.  Now we get to see what kind of GM we have.

[Sothron]

TS knows he can't bring this same group back next year. I do expect some kind of major change to the core elements of the team. I do however have to caution people that it does take two to tango with trades. TS didn't make a trade at the deadline because we got back crap offers for our talent. The hope is the offseason with the second half surge from these same guys will get a higher return.

[Final_quest]

Running it back wasn’t crazy, but a GM is not a fan.  It was obvious to me that we had a lot of good parts plus Trae.  A GM should explore landing a big fish every year.  Schlenk played the off-season like he was a fan.  It was a missed opportunity, but at least we get a do over.  
If we can’t land the right guy via trade, stay flexible.  Trade our pick for a future pick.  Sign reliable veterans on short deals.  Be ready to move when the right guy comes along. If it’s a seller’s market trade one of our guys for assets.

Fans will need to be patient if we miss on the big prizes of the off-season.  

[gurpilo]

I can see Travis upgrading the team with FA like Bruce Brown, Gary Harris, Otto Porter, Covington, Boucher, Hartenstein, Whiteside, player that provide toughness and strength.

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

I don't understand the "what we should have done" conversation.  I'm not happy with the season and I certainly felt like we needed upgrades.  Even after the run to the ECF's, it was apparent that we needed an upgrade to get to the next level.  However, it's not like we went all-in on this crew.  They overachieved and looked great in the process.  The right thing to do was tweak the team and see how it fared running it back.

Schlenk did that.  Delon was a good pick up and Dieng was initially looking like a decent pick up.  Nate brought in his own staff.  I guess I've seen previous management REFUSE to move after YEARS of ineptitude (like the historic Orlando sweep) and so much terrible GM'ing in general that I'm unable to draw a fair comparison to what others perceive as Schlenk mistakes - to include Travis himself.

I can say that he's on the clock now.  I'd say it started at this year's trade deadline, but certainly the pressure is on to right the ship this summer.  Now we get to see what kind of GM we have.

Exactly, imo he did the right thing last offseason with personnel.  The contracts we gave out were fine -- he didn't make any commitments that are not reversible.  We have guys on decent deals that are movable... the hardest decision Schlenk will have to make before he's truly on the hot seat is what to do with Nate.  Wright was a great pickup but we failed to utilize him at all.  Cam was a mismanaged situation.  Jalen needs more burn.  The team needs an identity and it cannot just be "believe".  Hope is not a strategy and our offensive "system" needs work.  Our defense needs fine tuning, although I will give Nate credit on that end because we played solid defense for the most part in our playoff series.

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, Sothron said:

TS knows he can't bring this same group back next year. I do expect some kind of major change to the core elements of the team. I do however have to caution people that it does take two to tango with trades. TS didn't make a trade at the deadline because we got back crap offers for our talent. The hope is the offseason with the second half surge from these same guys will get a higher return.

I think we need to also understand that there has to be a certain amount of pressure coming from Trae. 

Trae knows he can not do it with a cast of guys who can't go out and get their own shots. 

If we were to come away with Delon, Oladipo, and Gobert, I would suck it up and live with it. 

 

[NBASupes]

He said it best, it should have happened last year but there wasn't really much out there that made sense for the Hawks. 

This year, you got Gobert, LeVine, AD, potentially Ayton. You got some legit options this year and Atlanta still has a lot of talent and assets.

[Diesel]

12 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Running it back wasn’t crazy, but a GM is not a fan.  It was obvious to me that we had a lot of good parts plus Trae.  A GM should explore landing a big fish every year.  Schlenk played the off-season like he was a fan.  It was a missed opportunity, but at least we get a do over.  
If we can’t land the right guy via trade, stay flexible.  Trade our pick for a future pick.  Sign reliable veterans on short deals.  Be ready to move when the right guy comes along. If it’s a seller’s market trade one of our guys for assets.

Fans will need to be patient if we miss on the big prizes of the off-season.  

I don't think you can really say that.   We've never made the Conference finals and won games.   For the FO, I believe it's a tough place to see that team under the direction of Nate get so far and then say... they need some updating.  Especially after the fortunes that they believed they had in the draft. 

Travis thoughts were simple:

Trae, Bogi, Hunter, JC, and Clint

would be followed  by:

Shariffe, Kev, Cam, JJ, and OO..

with Solo, Gallo, Delon, and Lou being vets in the room. 

The problems are:  Cam didn't like his role.   OO is not a great rebounder.   Clint/JC is not big enough.  Bogi has a trick knee. Nate won't play Shariffe or JJ... and Trae needs a second scorer.   Hunter didn't step up and Bogi couldn't be consistent.  And Delon stepped up bigger than we expected but not big enough to be a match to Trae. So now, we have come to that place where we have to look Who can we get in here that will make this mixture work and winning?

Problems to solve... 

1.  Size in the Frontcourt.

I wouldn't say that this is our greatest problem.  However, sometimes, there are opportunities that present themselves that you have to take advantage of.. namely the possibility of getting Gorbert or Ayton. 

2.  A Star wing. 

Thus far, no real opportunities have arose.

3.  Dealing with Departures.

Gallo and Delon has been big time players for us.   Now, their departure is inevitable. I would say keeping Delon is the most important thing that we have to figure out.  That's MHO... but whereas the FO may like him, the most that they can do right now is offer an extension.. I think...Maybe something like Pat Bev got..  but with more years.  I'm thinking 3 years 40 Million.

 

 

[Gray Mule]

Hawks have many "pretty good" players.  Someone, preferably in the western division, who aren't really good but has a great player, we trade two or three or players + draft picks for their great one.

I don't know who fits this description.  But, I'll guess that they exist.  We need that great player.  Remember, most of those "great" players cost a lot of payroll.  That's why we trade more than one player.

Fix it.

[marco102]

14 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Running it back wasn’t crazy, but a GM is not a fan.  It was obvious to me that we had a lot of good parts plus Trae.  A GM should explore landing a big fish every year.  Schlenk played the off-season like he was a fan.  It was a missed opportunity, but at least we get a do over.  
If we can’t land the right guy via trade, stay flexible.  Trade our pick for a future pick.  Sign reliable veterans on short deals.  Be ready to move when the right guy comes along. If it’s a seller’s market trade one of our guys for assets.

Fans will need to be patient if we miss on the big prizes of the off-season.  

Isn't that exactly what he did and you were complaining about running it back?

Wright and Dieng were marginal upgrades. What star was out there besides Derozan?

[JayBirdHawk]

18 hours ago, Wretch said:

I don't understand the "what we should have done" conversation.  I'm not happy with the season and I certainly felt like we needed upgrades.  Even after the run to the ECF's, it was apparent that we needed an upgrade to get to the next level.  However, it's not like we went all-in on this crew.  They overachieved and looked great in the process.  The right thing to do was tweak the team and see how it fared running it back.

Schlenk did that.  Delon was a good pick up and Dieng was initially looking like a decent pick up.  Nate brought in his own staff.  I guess I've seen previous management REFUSE to move after YEARS of ineptitude (like the historic Orlando sweep) and so much terrible GM'ing in general that I'm unable to draw a fair comparison to what others perceive as Schlenk mistakes - to include Travis himself.

I can say that he's on the clock now.  I'd say it started at this year's trade deadline, but certainly the pressure is on to right the ship this summer.  Now we get to see what kind of GM we have.

...and I think part of the expectation was for our wings to improve and take the next step and unfortunately NONE OF THEM DID:

Cam wanted out, Huerter took a step back defensively, Hunter got injured again, Bogi ran hot and cold and couldn't stay healthy.

[JTB]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He said it best, it should have happened last year but there wasn't really much out there that made sense for the Hawks. 

This year, you got Gobert, LeVine, AD, potentially Ayton. You got some legit options this year and Atlanta still has a lot of talent and assets.

Is Lavine on the Hawks list? What gave you heard????

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

Isn't that exactly what he did and you were complaining about running it back?

Wright and Dieng were marginal upgrades. What star was out there besides Derozan?

No, that's not what he did.  He said he regretted not trying to upgrade the roster.  It would be different if he said, we explored everyone available and none of the deals made sense.  He did not make an effort to make a significant addition last offseason.  That's not really debatable based off his comments.  

Practically we might be at the same place, but we can't assume he would have struck out last year.  We do know he didn't try.  The other area of impact was it caused complacency on our roster.  They came out flat and never really got their mojo back.  It's hard to assess the harm caused from "running it back" approach, but I don't think it was neutral.  

[Diesel]

If the Ayton situation is one where Phoenix is too cheap to pay the LT.. I would make him the top target and use Gallo's contract Buyout as some incentive for them to do a deal. 

It's Ugly.. but it could work.   

I would then get a C from Diesel's draft list and develop. 

Then use Bogi/xx to get a Star SG..

What it may look like is:

1. Draft Mark Williams, Jalen Duren or Walker Kessler...
2. CC/OO/2026 protected first for Ayton (SNT)
3. Gallo for Shemet/Crowder 
4. Star SG who can play defense. 
5. Bring Back Delon (3 year 40 Million)

In a perfect world it would leave us with:

• Trae/Delon/BU
• Star/Kev
• Hunter/Crowder
• PF/JJ/BU
• Ayton/Mark Williams

Bogi/JC/Shariffe are tradeable players in this scenario.  I don't know if his star is that high but:

Bogi/Shariffe/2 (1st  2023/2025 Top 3 protected) for SGA...

• Trae/Delon/BU
• SGA/Kev
• Hunter/Crowder
• JC/JJ/BU
• Ayton/Mark Williams

 

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

If the Ayton situation is one where Phoenix is too cheap to pay the LT.. I would make him the top target and use Gallo's contract Buyout as some incentive for them to do a deal. 

It's Ugly.. but it could work.   

I would then get a C from Diesel's draft list and develop. 

Then use Bogi/xx to get a Star SG..

What it may look like is:

1. Draft Mark Williams, Jalen Duren or Walker Kessler...
2. CC/OO/2026 protected first for Ayton (SNT)
3. Gallo for Shemet/Crowder 
4. Star SG who can play defense. 
5. Bring Back Delon (3 year 40 Million)

In a perfect world it would leave us with:

• Trae/Delon/BU
• Star/Kev
• Hunter/Crowder
• PF/JJ/BU
• Ayton/Mark Williams

Bogi/JC/Shariffe are tradeable players in this scenario.  I don't know if his star is that high but:

Bogi/Shariffe/2 (1st  2023/2025 Top 3 protected) for SGA...

• Trae/Delon/BU
• SGA/Kev
• Hunter/Crowder
• JC/JJ/BU
• Ayton/Mark Williams

 

You would most likely be sending our draft pick along with Charlotte for Ayton. 

[marco102]

10 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

No, that's not what he did.  He said he regretted not trying to upgrade the roster.  It would be different if he said, we explored everyone available and none of the deals made sense.  He did not make an effort to make a significant addition last offseason.  That's not really debatable based off his comments.  

Practically we might be at the same place, but we can't assume he would have struck out last year.  We do know he didn't try.  The other area of impact was it caused complacency on our roster.  They came out flat and never really got their mojo back.  It's hard to assess the harm caused from "running it back" approach, but I don't think it was neutral.  

Again, who was out there that was real difference maker?  He did exactly what you said after last season. There's nothing out there that said he did not try to upgrade the roster.  However, it's silly to make changes for the sake of change when your team just went to the ECF.  

You act like if the Bucks would have called him and said hey this Giannis is available, what do you have for us.  He would have hung up the phone. 

There was no one reasonable available that would have made us that much better after our run.  

Again, he did exactly what you said. He didn't make unreasonable trades and he's waiting to get the right piece. 

Where did Travis say specifically he regretted not trying to upgrade the roster? I never read where he didn't try. 

[Spud2nique]

I’ll say one thing. I watched a bunch of Suns games last year and a bit less this year. But from what I remember, Ayton is about 15-20% better a player than he was last year. He’s got that sick wet jumper and it’s smooth.

If Ayton wasn’t a pipe dream he’d also be my #1, he’s a monster. A BEAST! 

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Where did Travis say specifically he regretted not trying to upgrade the roster?

He didn’t really he said we “gave the group another chance to run it back”..

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Again, who was out there that was real difference maker?  He did exactly what you said after last season. There's nothing out there that said he did not try to upgrade the roster.  However, it's silly to make changes for the sake of change when your team just went to the ECF.  

You act like if the Bucks would have called him and said hey this Giannis is available, what do you have for us.  He would have hung up the phone. 

There was no one reasonable available that would have made us that much better after our run.  

Again, he did exactly what you said. He didn't make unreasonable trades and he's waiting to get the right piece. 

Where did Travis say specifically he regretted not trying to upgrade the roster? I never read where he didn't try. 

This was Schlenk response from January when the team was struggling:

The Hawks made the decision to largely retain the roster that reached the 2021 Eastern Conference Finals, which Schlenk is now openly questioning. 

“Maybe it wasn’t such a great idea to bring everybody back, that’s on me," said Schlenk. "We have a few weeks here at the trade deadline and that’s what I need to figure out...it’s my responsibility to put a product on the floor that can win. Right now I’m questioning whether or not I have done that.”

The Hawks have struggled on defense this season, while also finding it difficult to generate offense when Trae Young sits. 

“Again, ultimately this all falls on me,” added Schlenk. “So we’ve got to take a long look at this and see if this group is the group we saw last year in the second half of the season of if it’s the group we’re seeing this year. And that’s what we have to determine and we have to make adjustments off those. Obviously, you can tell I’m a little frustrated.”

[AHF]

35 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

No, that's not what he did.  He said he regretted not trying to upgrade the roster.  It would be different if he said, we explored everyone available and none of the deals made sense.  He did not make an effort to make a significant addition last offseason.  That's not really debatable based off his comments.  

Practically we might be at the same place, but we can't assume he would have struck out last year.  We do know he didn't try.  The other area of impact was it caused complacency on our roster.  They came out flat and never really got their mojo back.  It's hard to assess the harm caused from "running it back" approach, but I don't think it was neutral.  

I agree with Final Quest that TS didn't do this in the offseason.

TS did, however, do this during the regular season leading up to the trade deadline.