The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

Yes, I think so at least. Pretty much. Not a lot of difference. Last five years' numbers for each through age 28 (Harkless' current age)...

 

I guess I'm thinking more personality based in the locker room, in practice and how it translated to the toughness within the team and on the floor.

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Here's the difference between Horford/JC and OO. Both Horford and JC had decent midrange jumpshots in College and in their early NBA careers which lead to them being asked/told they can expand their range to the 3pt line. So they had a head start.

In 2 years with the Hawks we have not yet seen a midrange game from OO. I really hope he does as he says and comes back with one.

It's been 2 years but just over 1,000 minutes which is less than most first-round rookies log in a full year, like 50% less minutes than Horford and Collins played in their first season with the Hawks. Just to point out how little we've actually seen of OO up to this point. I would not be shocked to see a huge jump this season from him. I would be shocked if he didn't attempt at least a few jumpshots this year, and I think we'll have a better idea about his potential ceiling in that aspect once that happens. As of now in my mind it is a complete mystery. His free throw stroke looked beautiful at times last year, I think there is at least room to hope. 

[sturt]

7 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I guess I'm thinking more personality based in the locker room, in practice and how it translated to the toughness within the team and on the floor.

Honestly... I'm clueless... educate me...

This is representative of what I've known of Harkless in his career, but I can't pretend I've been paying close attention...

 

[NBASupes]

24 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Here's the difference between Horford/JC and OO. Both Horford and JC had decent midrange jumpshots in College and in their early NBA careers which lead to them being asked/told they can expand their range to the 3pt line. So they had a head start.

In 2 years with the Hawks we have not yet seen a midrange game from OO. I really hope he does as he says and comes back with one.

Horford did. JC took like 6 jumpshots in two years. Okongwu took far more at USC. 

[Spud2nique]

24 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Horford did. JC took like 6 jumpshots in two years. Okongwu took far more at USC. 

OO does what’s needed and adjusts well to new roles, he just wins.

[theheroatl]

A defensive 4 and 3 spot is the way to go for the Hawks.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/what-power-forwards-have-the-best-defensive-rating-in-2021
 

Oh how I wish we could swap JC for Bam. Alternatively I would love to see OO play PF moving forward 

Edited July 4, 2022 by theheroatl

[JayBirdHawk]

46 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

It's been 2 years but just over 1,000 minutes which is less than most first-round rookies log in a full year, like 50% less minutes than Horford and Collins played in their first season with the Hawks. Just to point out how little we've actually seen of OO up to this point. I would not be shocked to see a huge jump this season from him. I would be shocked if he didn't attempt at least a few jumpshots this year, and I think we'll have a better idea about his potential ceiling in that aspect once that happens. As of now in my mind it is a complete mystery. His free throw stroke looked beautiful at times last year, I think there is at least room to hope. 

Very true that we've seen him for a limited time and it didn't help that he was rehabbing in both his offseasons. Hopefully a healthy offseason will see this transformation.

Remember too that JC was coming off the bench as a rookie behind Milsap.  The first half of that year he took maybe 1 or 2 3's. Once we were lottery bounch, Coach Bud asked him to start taking more. 

I remember a reporter asking Bud why he wasn't using JC in the post etc...he said they knew what he could there so the idea was to develop the rest of his game. 

[Atlantaholic]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Very true that we've seen him for a limited time and it didn't help that he was rehabbing in both his offseasons. Hopefully a healthy offseason will see this transformation.

Remember too that JC was coming off the bench as a rookie behind Milsap.  The first half of that year he took maybe 1 or 2 3's. Once we were lottery bounch, Coach Bud asked him to start taking more. 

I remember a reporter asking Bud why he wasn't using JC in the post etc...he said they knew what he could their so the idea was to develop the rest of his game. 

To me biggest key heading into the season (assuming no more significant moves) is if Nate's staff can develop our young talent. If OO and JJ take jumps and AJ griffin can make an impact this team is elite imo. If not we probably don't have the depth to crack the top 3. 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

To me biggest key heading into the season (assuming no more significant moves) is if Nate's staff can develop our young talent. If OO and JJ take jumps and AJ griffin can make an impact this team is elite imo. If not we probably don't have the depth to crack the top 3. 

Speaking of Nate's staff - it needs some 'ooomph'

[Atlantaholic]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Speaking of Nate's staff - it needs some 'ooomph'

100%

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

We need 3 players and only have $1.8 million to spend to avoid the LT....you are going to be in the LT barring a JC/Clint trade...just accept that.

I'm trying to come up with a 1 for 2 trade of either J Holiday or Harkless, then the last roster spot to Cooper.

Any word on if Cooper will get an NBA contract or back on a 2W?

Or maybe we go into the season with only 14 players, we've done that before. So only 2 slots to fill.

[JayBirdHawk]

Wow, Luka couldn't even recruit his fellow country man to play with him 

 

 

[h4wkfan]

I’m guessing we sign 2-3 guys to min contracts (or close to it) to round out the roster. 
 

then around the deadline - we make a trade to skirt in under the LT line. As much talk as there has been about being ok with paying it, I think they want to avoid it 1 more year given the raise Hunter will get after this season. 

[theheroatl]

FYI Durant trade won’t happen until July 6th. Ayton wants to see if someone gets him a offer sheet on that day before deciding if a sign and trade is the only option to maximize money.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[sturt]

35 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Any word on if Cooper will get an NBA contract or back on a 2W?

He's been offered a 2W iirc. But of course, that doesn't rule out a 15-man contract. Looks a whole lot less likely now, though, with 3 PGs on the roster. Summer league performance might be the determining factor.

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

JC is a good player.  At capacity, he's a really good player.  If I'm the GM, I'm not trying to trade JC.  But I'm also not hanging up the phone if someone wants JC.  The issue I see is that the Hawks are only getting 80% or so of JC's capability. Whether it's because of Clint or the way Trae plays or whatever the reason, we aren't getting JC at HIS best.  And that's a problem.  IF that means we can trade JC for a player that "fits" better with the current version of the Hawks and thereby makes the Hawks better, then go for it.  I have no idea if they can do that or not.  

 

If this translated into losses, then I would understand.  However, nothing that we're no longer getting from JC is translating into losses.  IN fact, when JC was putting up Monster numbers, we were a losing team.  Now.. at 80% of what he used to be.. we're winning.   What is the problem?  Is the problem that we're winning or is the problem that we're paying JC and you want him to be 100% like he used to be??

When Kevin Love Joined Lebron and Kyrie.. and he was no longer the scoring and rebounding machine that he used to be at Minnesota, did anybody complain that they were paying him and were not getting 100%...or were they happy to bring a title to the land?

When Chris Bosh joined Lebron and Wade.. and he was no longer the scoring and rebounding machine that he used to be at Toronto, did anybody complain that they were paying him and were not getting 100%... or were they happy to bring a title or 2 to Miami?

Sometimes, when you play on a winning team, individual stats take a back seat to win games. 

The worst part of your post RE is that you talk about fit?  Fit is different than production (first)..  Second, Fit is assigned by role and skillset.   Are you one of the asinine persons that suggest that we replace JC with OO?  Let's examine fit here.  JC is about a 39 - 40% shooter from three.  OO has shot 3 threes in his NBA career.   Yet... some people believe that he's a better fit than JC. 

Go back to your drawing board.  Take those stats, shine them up real good... and think about do you want a High statistics guy or do you want wins.. because while JC was playing, we were the best offense in the game. 

 

[EazyRoc]

23 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Wow, Luka couldn't even recruit his fellow country man to play with him 

 

 

Listen I’m trying to tell folks…Luka must be earning a bad rep among players

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

I mean....  that's simply not true.  JC developed a 3pt shot at this level.  He took none in college and less than 1 per game his first season in the NBA, making 34.0%. Then in Year 2 he's taking 2.6 per game and making 35%. Then in Year 3 he's taking 3.6 per game and making 40.1%.  That's developing your shot over the course of an offseason.  Some players can do it. Some can't.  JC was a 73% FT shooter in college so his stroke was at lease passable to extend his range.  OO was 72% FT shooter in college with a good looking stroke.  Not sure there's any reason to think he can't also extend his range.  

If it's so possible, why aren't more guys spending the offseason making themselves into 40% from three guys? About Collins, you show three years of development and call it "over the course of an offseason"???   From his rookie season to his third year is three season.   Moreover, JC was afforded that room to grow in live play because we were not trying to win anything. For the next three years, we don't have time for OO to work on his three point shot in live game situations.   We have become a win now team. 

I will be happy to see OO become an outside shooter, but there's no expectation that he can and it's fool's gold to think that he will.