Drew League 2022...Plus Other Summer ProAm Leagues & Smack Talk

[JayBirdHawk]

#4 pick - Hunter

#5 pick - Trae

#6 pick - OO

All I want is for these guys to be closer to Trae's impact than further away and I'll be happy.

 

[Wretch]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

#4 pick - Hunter

#5 pick - Trae

#6 pick - OO

All I want is for these guys to be closer to Trae's impact than further away and I'll be happy.

 

LOL it ain't rocket science...

[AHF]

34 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

#4 pick - Hunter

#5 pick - Trae

#6 pick - OO

All I want is for these guys to be closer to Trae's impact than further away and I'll be happy.

 

Trae is a pretty extreme outlier (in a good way).  Looking at the 2011-2020 drafts, here are the #s of All-Stars drafted 4-7

2020 - 0

2019 - 1 (1x)

2018 - 1 (2x)

2017 - 0

2016 - 0

2015 - 1 (1x)

2014 - 1 (1x)

2013 - 0

2012 - 1 (6x)

2011 - 0

 

So looking at that 10 year window, you have 5 of 40 players who made an All-Star team for a rate of 12.5% and 2 of the 40 players who have made more than one All-Star team for a rate of 5%.

I suspect if you stack those 40 players by PER, WS/48 or other per minute metrics that OO ranks comfortably in the top 25%.

[hawkman]

4 hours ago, Wretch said:

I guess? I mean...yeah.  I think we're moving in the direction of his development vs. his potential though.  We're waiting on his development.  I didn't (and don't) see the potential in him at #6 to get excited.

I've at least seen (quite a bit honestly) of what DeAndre Hunter could be and he's also had developmental setbacks.  I'm comfortable with whatever his outcome is even if I'm ultimately disappointed in his development and the investment made in him.  I'll at least know why we moved up to get him.

I'm waiting to see why we drafted OO at #6.

I can totally understand this. I'll take it a step further. Our Lottery picks besides Trae just haven't lived up to expectations. The harsh reality:

#4 Hunter--13ppg 3.3rpg

#6 Okongwu-- 8ppg 6rpg

#10 Cam -- disgruntled/traded

I won't sugar coat this. I'm a Hawks fan and I fully support whoever is on the team, but this looks bad after years of blatant tanking with the idea of "building through the Draft". Of course, the Draft is unpredictable and it's not as simple as just looking at numbers. I understand injuries and how recovery can hamper development, but I totally understand why the patience of some fans is wearing thin. We need to see more this upcoming season period. Hopefully, with a healthy offseason we get to see why these guys were picked as high as they were because the season depends on it. 

[AHF]

42 minutes ago, hawkman said:

I can totally understand this. I'll take it a step further. Our Lottery picks besides Trae just haven't lived up to expectations. The harsh reality:

#4 Hunter--13ppg 3.3rpg

#6 Okongwu-- 8ppg 6rpg

#10 Cam -- disgruntled/traded

I won't sugar coat this. I'm a Hawks fan and I fully support whoever is on the team, but this looks bad after years of blatant tanking with the idea of "building through the Draft". Of course, the Draft is unpredictable and it's not as simple as just looking at numbers. I understand injuries and how recovery can hamper development, but I totally understand why the patience of some fans is wearing thin. We need to see more this upcoming season period. Hopefully, with a healthy offseason we get to see why these guys were picked as high as they were because the season depends on it. 

I guess I’m a bit of a sunshiny optimist.  I see us as having tanked for 3 years and come out with consecutive playoff appearances that includes the most successful post-season run in Atlanta history and coming into this season having added a young All-Star to our core.  Last year didn’t live up to expectations but this is not a bad place to be after 3 years of tanking, imo.  The mere fact that the tanking ended up with us having our first franchise player since Nique who looks good enough to challenge Nique’s legacy is pretty exciting.  
 

Sure, I’d like to see our other lottery picks step up but we have some nice talent at every position all in their 20’s right now.  That bodes well for the future and coming into next year I am looking at a team that will be looking to step it up on a path to contender status.  Don’t know that we reach that level this year but this team looks good enough that I can’t say they won’t.  Not many Atlanta teams that I’ve felt like really had that chance.

[RedDawg#8]

41 minutes ago, hawkman said:

I can totally understand this. I'll take it a step further. Our Lottery picks besides Trae just haven't lived up to expectations. The harsh reality:

#4 Hunter--13ppg 3.3rpg

#6 Okongwu-- 8ppg 6rpg

#10 Cam -- disgruntled/traded

I won't sugar coat this. I'm a Hawks fan and I fully support whoever is on the team, but this looks bad after years of blatant tanking with the idea of "building through the Draft". Of course, the Draft is unpredictable and it's not as simple as just looking at numbers. I understand injuries and how recovery can hamper development, but I totally understand why the patience of some fans is wearing thin. We need to see more this upcoming season period. Hopefully, with a healthy offseason we get to see why these guys were picked as high as they were because the season depends on it. 

I feel you on this. But one thing you have to keep in mind is how fickle the draft is. Travis Schlenk basically admitted that the reason why he valued collecting picks for so long was because he wanted to take as many swings at the plate as possible. Alluding to the reality that you just never know how things will turn out with these young players.

The other thing to rationalize is that our draft strategy was always to take the highest upside player as our BPA, and not necessarily the safer/more sure-fire prospects who would likely have more immediate success. It's even more unpredictable how these guys will turn out as a result.

I will say this. OO could totally contribute more on the stat sheet if he was given the playing time. He just so happens to be behind a high priced vet that we extended. His game translates in his limited minutes that he is a difference maker on the court.

Dre is the one that I am most focused on now because he has "flashed" the ability to perform at a high level. He just has not been able to stay healthy for it to be consistent.

Those 2 guys are very key to us reaching our ceiling as a team. 

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, kg01 said:

Haha.  I guess the captions gonna read, "Aye it's a good think OO can shoot rickety jumpshots to lead us to this title, bro!" 

Yeah.. I have seen Trae Dunk... once... 

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, macdaddy said:

What?  where are you seeing that.  Trae is the PG for sure.  

I think you have to have one listed as a PG and the other a SG and 2K has Murray at the 1 and Trae at the 2.

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, LucastheThird said:

I honestly think he will outplay Clint before he outplays JC in the PF role. 

 

I'm feeling like JC will be an All Star this year and would be willing to place a friendly wager on it if you're up for it. 

No doubt OO is a center he’s a modern day hybrid but not necessary a let it fly new age hybrid but a throwback Super Rich man’s Carl Landry with passing and more athleticism.

Agree with JC flying this year. We got a lot of players ready to prove a lot.

 

JC- tired of the BS surrounding him he’s gonna blow up on the court and do well.

Bogi-  Been questioned and injured he needs to have a strong campaign and I think will prove doubter wrong.

OO- See: This thread  needs to go off.

JJ- Robbed of his min. from Nate.

AJ- Dropped significantly in the draft. 
 

Ya, we might have a very hungry team… hopefully  

 

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

2. Nate. Look the dude won’t play some guys..

No no my friend.. when it comes to OO, there's no PT excuse. 

2021-2022 he averaged about 20.7 mpg. 

I guess this is what we can consider the lottery of his draft...

1. Timberwolves draft Anthony Edwards

2. Warriors draft James Wiseman

3. Hornets draft LaMelo Ball

4. Bulls draft Patrick Williams

5. Cavaliers draft Isaac Okoro

6. Hawks draft Onyeka Okongwu

7. Pistons draft Killian Hayes

8. Knicks draft Obi Toppin

9. Wizards draft Deni Avdija

10. Suns draft Jalen Smith

11. Spurs draft Devin Vassell

12. Kings draft Tyrese Haliburton

13. Pelicans draft Kira Lewis Jr.

14. Celtics draft Aaron Nesmith

 

He fits right in with the rest of his class with MPG. 

 

[Final_quest]

5 hours ago, Wretch said:

And I'm well aware of the playing time and polish that Collins has had.  You could still see the potential in him 2 years in.  Especially after Trae unlocked him.  You could see his potential and make the argument back then that he should have gone higher. 

Collins talent was recognized year one.  Look at our threads during his rookie year.  He was credible early on, but not everyone develops that quickly.
 

I hope between Hunter, OO, Jalen and AJ that one of those guys becomes all star level.  That would be a good thread.  Ranking those guys 1-4, and giving it at least three years.  

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

No no my friend.. when it comes to OO, there's no PT excuse. 

2021-2022 he averaged about 20.7 mpg. 

I guess this is what we can consider the lottery of his draft...

1. Timberwolves draft Anthony Edwards

2. Warriors draft James Wiseman

3. Hornets draft LaMelo Ball

4. Bulls draft Patrick Williams

5. Cavaliers draft Isaac Okoro

6. Hawks draft Onyeka Okongwu

7. Pistons draft Killian Hayes

8. Knicks draft Obi Toppin

9. Wizards draft Deni Avdija

10. Suns draft Jalen Smith

11. Spurs draft Devin Vassell

12. Kings draft Tyrese Haliburton

13. Pelicans draft Kira Lewis Jr.

14. Celtics draft Aaron Nesmith

 

He fits right in with the rest of his class with MPG. 

 

Have any of the rest done much with equal or less PT? I honestly don’t know I’m asking. 

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, Wretch said:

Sooooo...  I'm not a stats guy.  I have never been a stats guy.  I'm probably the antithesis of that.  I'm an eye test guy.  It's not about the numbers, it's about watching him play.  Analyzing how he plays the game, reading what the scouts say about him, and watching his development.  I see a guy who can defend and could possibly be elite at it.  He has FANTASTIC motion towards the basket and good hands.  He's so fluid twisting and leaping down low. 

This is not exclusive lottery potential and it's where you're just not following me. You absolutely do not, under any circumstance, have to draft a guy with a high lottery pick to get that kind of return on a front court player.  We have literally two such example players starting ahead of him right now.  That kind of player is SO readily available.  Not a bad thing.  Not at all.  It's just not something you have to spend big money on.  Like playing $5 for a baked potato.  It's good, but you can get that at home lol

For me to get excited, I need to see OO plus a face up/off the dribble, post up, or perimeter shooting.  For a lottery pick, I'd like to see all of that...even if just flashes of it.  I'm not giving Hunter a pass.  I'm saying that I have seen flashes of him being ridiculous - on both sides of the ball.  Same with Cam.  Same with Collins actually...and you look at him and say, "this dude should have gone top 10."

Im not disagreeing with anything that you have said, I just have this one question..

Giving the 20/20 of hindsight...

would you have spent a #6 pick on Ben Wallace?

 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

Have any of the rest done much with equal or less PT? I honestly don’t know I’m asking. 

Actually, in my opinion, the class is kind of weak... or rather, it's top heavy... so I'm not crying over #6 for OO.   I mean who else would we have taken to fill the role?  Obi 1Konobe Toppin??  Nah...

 

[hawkman]

51 minutes ago, AHF said:

I guess I’m a bit of a sunshiny optimist.  I see us as having tanked for 3 years and come out with consecutive playoff appearances that includes the most successful post-season run in Atlanta history and coming into this season having added a young All-Star to our core.  Last year didn’t live up to expectations but this is not a bad place to be after 3 years of tanking, imo.  The mere fact that the tanking ended up with us having our first franchise player since Nique who looks good enough to challenge Nique’s legacy is pretty exciting.  
 

Sure, I’d like to see our other lottery picks step up but we have some nice talent at every position all in their 20’s right now.  That bodes well for the future and coming into next year I am looking at a team that will be looking to step it up on a path to contender status.  Don’t know that we reach that level this year but this team looks good enough that I can’t say they won’t.  Not many Atlanta teams that I’ve felt like really had that chance.

I totally agree that the team is on an upward trajectory (on paper) despite last season's postseason. Just pointing out that these Lottery picks outside of Trae haven't exactly been world beaters so far. OO and Hunter have shown flashes, but the team will need more from them to be contenders. 

[NBASupes]

JC is mad overrated on this site. He's not that good. Lou Williams of PFs. PFs gotta do a lot more on defense in the modern NBA or they need to be on the bench. 

[NBASupes]

6 hours ago, LucastheThird said:

I honestly think he will outplay Clint before he outplays JC in the PF role. 

 

I'm feeling like JC will be an All Star this year and would be willing to place a friendly wager on it if you're up for it. 

He's a PF, don't rebound or protect the paint well enough in a Trae Young led team to be a starting center. Too many refuse to accept that fact. They focus too much on offense is which not that big of a deal for a modern big. Look at Golden State.

 

Elite defense>>>>> 

 

He could be a center with LaMelo Ball at PG. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

The haters getting real quiet

 

 

[kg01]

Man there's a lotta trash, biased opinions on the site lately.

[JayBirdHawk]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

Trae is a pretty extreme outlier (in a good way).  Looking at the 2011-2020 drafts, here are the #s of All-Stars drafted in the top 25%.

 

2 hours ago, hawkman said:

I can totally understand this. I'll take it a step further. Our Lottery picks besides Trae just haven't lived up to expectations. The harsh reality:

#4 Hunter--13ppg 3.3rpg

#6 Okongwu-- 8ppg 6rpg

#10 Cam -- disgruntled/traded

I'm not necessarily looking for them to be 'Allstars' - I need them to standout and be great in at least one thing and consistent with the rest. I want them to be in the 'conversations list' regarding whatever skillset flashes.