The 3-point Conundrum

[JayBirdHawk]

On 1/2/2023 at 11:22 AM, JayBirdHawk said:

Let's see where we are to end 2022:

Trae - 31%

DJ - 35% 

Hunter - 35.4%

JC - 22.7% 

AJ - 37.2% 

OO - 0% 

Bogi - 40.4% 

JJ - 21.4%

JHol - 34.5%

AHol - 44% 

Kaminsky - 44.4%

We are getting nothing from the PF spot.

Update After 9 games in 2023 Let's take a look at the 3pt percentages:

Trae - 32.9%

DJ - 36.4% 

Hunter - 37.3%

JC - 24.4% 

AJ - 38.4% 

OO - 0% 

Bogi - 36.4% 

JJ - 28.4%

JHol - 34.1%

AHol - 40% 

Kaminsky - 50.0% (wish he wasn't so slow on defense and could rebound)

PF spot still trending behind the rest of the team.  However, JJ is 7/11 from 3 since the calendar flipped to 2023.

[Final_quest]

The first ten games of the season it was a desert of 3 point shooting.  Now we are respectable and it even seems like a strength lately.  

[JayBirdHawk]

Makes me want to cry  

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Lowe's 10 things: A Change of Pace in Atlanta

 

When the Atlanta Hawks get moving

This is a pivotal two weeks for Atlanta. Turmoil shook every level of the organization. The Collins trade rumors are hotter than ever. And yet, there is a good team here; their starting five is one of the league's best lineups, and their bench is mostly healthy.

 

What kind of team do they want to be?

 

The Hawks are 6-2 in their last eight, and their offense -- moribund much of the season -- is humming. Some of that is unsustainable shooting; the Hawks in that stretch have hit 42% on 3s, 52% from floater range, and 59% on long 2s. It feels like Dejounte Murray hasn't missed a runner in weeks.

 

Nothing else about Atlanta's fundamentals has changed. They are still Team Mid-Range. They are last in passes per game overall, and in the bottom five even in this stretch.

 

But the Hawks and Trae Young have shown glimpses of the snappier style that drove their conference finals run two seasons ago. There has been a little less your turn/my turn between Young and Murray, and a little more of this.

 

Young gets off the ball earlier -- loading that slingshot pass before he arrives at the foul line. Jalen Brunson is leaning away from Bogdan Bogdanovic in the corner -- and toward the paint -- when Young throws it. That nuance of timing forces Brunson to plant, pivot, and make a mad scramble toward Bogdanovic. He's easy prey for a blow-by, igniting the kind of drive-and-kick sequence that invigorates the Hawks.

 

Young is incredible, but no one wants to watch the same guy dribble the air out of the ball every possession -- especially when everyone has to cover for him on defense.

 

The Hawks have positioned Young in the corners more often when Murray orchestrates. In the past, Young has spent most of his off-ball time near mid-court -- a bystander. He's a more active threat in the corners. He can fly off pindowns, set random screens, attack close-outs.

 

Young is also pushing the pace more. He is always at his best doing that -- either one-on-one, or with John Collins and Clint Capela setting their patented double-drag for him. Defenses meet Young early, and he can freeze them with hesitation moves.

 

Even when Young hunts his own in semi-transition, it just feels more organic -- and less like one player puppeteering.

 

 

[sturt]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Some of that is unsustainable shooting

Appreciate all of the above... but to this particular comment, some would suggest it's regression to the mean... ie, that how bad our shooting had been previously was also unsustainable.

 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Lowe's 10 things: A Change of Pace in Atlanta

 

When the Atlanta Hawks get moving

This is a pivotal two weeks for Atlanta. Turmoil shook every level of the organization. The Collins trade rumors are hotter than ever. And yet, there is a good team here; their starting five is one of the league's best lineups, and their bench is mostly healthy.

 

What kind of team do they want to be?

 

The Hawks are 6-2 in their last eight, and their offense -- moribund much of the season -- is humming. Some of that is unsustainable shooting; the Hawks in that stretch have hit 42% on 3s, 52% from floater range, and 59% on long 2s. It feels like Dejounte Murray hasn't missed a runner in weeks.

 

Nothing else about Atlanta's fundamentals has changed. They are still Team Mid-Range. They are last in passes per game overall, and in the bottom five even in this stretch.

 

But the Hawks and Trae Young have shown glimpses of the snappier style that drove their conference finals run two seasons ago. There has been a little less your turn/my turn between Young and Murray, and a little more of this.

 

Young gets off the ball earlier -- loading that slingshot pass before he arrives at the foul line. Jalen Brunson is leaning away from Bogdan Bogdanovic in the corner -- and toward the paint -- when Young throws it. That nuance of timing forces Brunson to plant, pivot, and make a mad scramble toward Bogdanovic. He's easy prey for a blow-by, igniting the kind of drive-and-kick sequence that invigorates the Hawks.

 

Young is incredible, but no one wants to watch the same guy dribble the air out of the ball every possession -- especially when everyone has to cover for him on defense.

 

The Hawks have positioned Young in the corners more often when Murray orchestrates. In the past, Young has spent most of his off-ball time near mid-court -- a bystander. He's a more active threat in the corners. He can fly off pindowns, set random screens, attack close-outs.

 

Young is also pushing the pace more. He is always at his best doing that -- either one-on-one, or with John Collins and Clint Capela setting their patented double-drag for him. Defenses meet Young early, and he can freeze them with hesitation moves.

 

Even when Young hunts his own in semi-transition, it just feels more organic -- and less like one player puppeteering.

 

 

It’s a matter of winning. Lol. That’s it. F the what has happened bs. They got their sphincters loosened is all. @JayBirdHawk that’s your word 

[benhillboy]

10 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Lowe's 10 things: A Change of Pace in Atlanta

 

When the Atlanta Hawks get moving

This is a pivotal two weeks for Atlanta. Turmoil shook every level of the organization. The Collins trade rumors are hotter than ever. And yet, there is a good team here; their starting five is one of the league's best lineups, and their bench is mostly healthy.

 

What kind of team do they want to be?

 

The Hawks are 6-2 in their last eight, and their offense -- moribund much of the season -- is humming. Some of that is unsustainable shooting; the Hawks in that stretch have hit 42% on 3s, 52% from floater range, and 59% on long 2s. It feels like Dejounte Murray hasn't missed a runner in weeks.

 

Nothing else about Atlanta's fundamentals has changed. They are still Team Mid-Range. They are last in passes per game overall, and in the bottom five even in this stretch.

 

But the Hawks and Trae Young have shown glimpses of the snappier style that drove their conference finals run two seasons ago. There has been a little less your turn/my turn between Young and Murray, and a little more of this.

 

Young gets off the ball earlier -- loading that slingshot pass before he arrives at the foul line. Jalen Brunson is leaning away from Bogdan Bogdanovic in the corner -- and toward the paint -- when Young throws it. That nuance of timing forces Brunson to plant, pivot, and make a mad scramble toward Bogdanovic. He's easy prey for a blow-by, igniting the kind of drive-and-kick sequence that invigorates the Hawks.

 

Young is incredible, but no one wants to watch the same guy dribble the air out of the ball every possession -- especially when everyone has to cover for him on defense.

 

The Hawks have positioned Young in the corners more often when Murray orchestrates. In the past, Young has spent most of his off-ball time near mid-court -- a bystander. He's a more active threat in the corners. He can fly off pindowns, set random screens, attack close-outs.

 

Young is also pushing the pace more. He is always at his best doing that -- either one-on-one, or with John Collins and Clint Capela setting their patented double-drag for him. Defenses meet Young early, and he can freeze them with hesitation moves.

 

Even when Young hunts his own in semi-transition, it just feels more organic -- and less like one player puppeteering.

 

 

Appreciate it Jay.  Zach is the only national analyst worth my time to read.

I been begging and pleading with Trae to work the corners/ baseline more, pull his defensive share, and get off the ball properly for years.  Any respectable analyst echoes this.  I really hope the “new regime” along with Nate can continue to pound home how important these habits are.

[marco102]

14 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Young is incredible, but no one wants to watch the same guy dribble the air out of the ball every possession -- especially when everyone has to cover for him on defense.

Have they written this about Luka? 

Like yeah, it's true, but they are afraid to write the same thing about his greatness in Dallas who does this more so than Young.

[JayBirdHawk]

33 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Have they written this about Luka? 

Like yeah, it's true, but they are afraid to write the same thing about his greatness in Dallas who does this more so than Young.

Nope.

[JayBirdHawk]

When you say, 'I don't care what analytics say about 3-point shooting' and de-emphasizes it with your players and it becomes part of your coaching philosophy......here is where you end up.  Players reluctant to take them and when they do not take them with confidence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

When you say, 'I don't care what analytics say about 3-point shooting' and de-emphasizes it with your players and it becomes part of your coaching philosophy......here is where you end up.  Players reluctant to take them and when they do not take them with confidence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are mainly streaky shooters and NY was bullying them so they were shooting like they had dead legs

[JayBirdHawk]

On 1/19/2023 at 8:59 AM, JayBirdHawk said:

Update After 9 games in 2023 Let's take a look at the 3pt percentages:

Trae - 32.9%

DJ - 36.4% 

Hunter - 37.3%

JC - 24.4% 

AJ - 38.4% 

OO - 0% 

Bogi - 36.4% 

JJ - 28.4%

JHol - 34.1%

AHol - 40% 

Kaminsky - 50.0% (wish he wasn't so slow on defense and could rebound)

PF spot still trending behind the rest of the team.  However, JJ is 7/11 from 3 since the calendar flipped to 2023.

Update: 59 games have been played with 23 left to go...where we stand with the 3pt percentages:

Trae - 32.4%

DJ - 36.3% 

Hunter - 35.9%

JC - 24.8% 

AJ - 39.4% 

OO - 20% 

Bogi - 38.3% 

JJ - 28.4%

AHol - 41.3% 

Bey - 50% (Hawks only)
GMat - 100% (Hawks only)

PF spot still struggling big time behind the rest of the team.  

[macdaddy]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Update: 59 games have been played with 23 left to go...where we stand with the 3pt percentages:

Trae - 32.4%

DJ - 36.3% 

Hunter - 35.9%

JC - 24.8% 

AJ - 39.4% 

OO - 20% 

Bogi - 38.3% 

JJ - 28.4%

AHol - 41.3% 

Bey - 50% (Hawks only)
GMat - 100% (Hawks only)

PF spot still struggling big time behind the rest of the team.  

This is terrible.  

[JayBirdHawk]

On 2/19/2023 at 11:02 AM, JayBirdHawk said:

Update: 59 games have been played with 23 left to go...where we stand with the 3pt percentages:

Trae - 32.4%

DJ - 36.3% 

Hunter - 35.9%

JC - 24.8% 

AJ - 39.4% 

OO - 20% 

Bogi - 38.3% 

JJ - 28.4%

AHol - 41.3% 

Bey - 50% (Hawks only)
GMat - 100% (Hawks only)

PF spot still struggling big time behind the rest of the team.  

UPDATE Time:

Trae - 32.9%

DJ - 36.2% 

Hunter - 36.3%

JC - 26.1% 

AJ - 38.4% 

OO - 28.6% (2 of 7)

Bogi - 40.4% 

JJ - 30.2% (Finally above the 30% mark). since January he is shooting at 46%  making 14 of 30 3s

Bey - 46.7% (Hawks only)

AHol - 41.3% 

[JayBirdHawk]

3 point % Since Quin took over (5 Games):

 

Trae - 36% (9-25)

DJ - 29.6% (8-27)

Hunter - 31.5% (6-19)

JC - 31.2% (5-16)

AJ - 00.0% (0-4 in 2 games)

OO - 50% (1-2)

Bogi - 52.1% (12-23)

JJ - 60%  (3-5)

Bey - 39.2% (11-28)

AHol -  N/A

[TheNorthCydeRises]

This has been a good thread.

Quin definitely wants to see our 3 point volume increase.   And in his post game press conference, he even mentioned rebounding off of 3 point shots, in which traditionally teams only leave their big man in the paint to possibly fight for an offensive rebound.

We had 13 offensive rebounds last night in the Washington game.  5 of them came off of 3 point shots. 

And on 4 of those shots, the wing in the opposite corner  isn't drifting back to go on defense, they're coming toward the rim to help the big rebound.   This is how Collins was able to get that offensive rebound late in the 4th and pass it out to Trae for the 3.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 point shooting still a struggle. Low volume compounded with low makes.

 

 

[givemesome1ce1]

So much of this year’s failure has to be put on the front office’s failure to put any shooting on this team and Nate’s coaching for barely incentivizing catch and shoot threes and passing the ball period. It’s disgusting. Quin has to fix a lot of shit this off season. 

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, givemesome1ce1 said:

So much of this year’s failure has to be put on the front office’s failure to put any shooting on this team and Nate’s coaching for barely incentivizing catch and shoot threes and passing the ball period. It’s disgusting. Quin has to fix a lot of shit this off season. 

Duly noted...Nick.  

[JayBirdHawk]

On 10/25/2022 at 12:48 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

I'll be keeping watch all season.

We can't be both low volume AND low percentages.

 

A season long problem.