Hawks looking to move John Collins? This again?

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Randle is tough one for me. He can hurt us and be mad about touches. But he can be an elite 6th which we are greatly lacking. If we land him, I don't see him working as a starter but being elite as a 6th man and that's something that would help us a lot. On top of that, I think Randle would cost NY a 1st as well so we can come out well from that deal if we have a good plan in place for Randle.

I wouldn’t wanna give JC for Randle. I can’t trust Randle, his weight, his attitude, his streaks, his on court ball hogging.

Cam is honestly my fav he can play the most versatile PF of almost anyone in the league, prolly the best PF pure shooter as well, interchangeable as a 3 man also. Travis likes guys like Cam a lot. 
 

With Trae and DM able to break their men down, we need our PF to be a quick release three point shooter and he’s the best fit for a team like us that really needs to spread out for max success.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Make a trade to get better, OR

Make a trade to save money.

Seen this movie.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

Well yeah if they want to move Johnson that is..They didnt re-sign him so perhaps it's possible.. But I doubt it..

If they don't, then we won't trade JC. He can get Myles Turner'd

[Spud2nique]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

t Cam Johnson spaces the floor, moves off the ball well and is an elite knockdown 3 point shooter. That opens the court for Trae and Murray.

Prolly the best and quickest catch n shoot PF in the league is perfect for us. But you get him and you need to somehow get a girthy guy like Nurk or Jonas who both are prolly not available .

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

I wouldn’t wanna give JC for Randle. I can’t trust Randle, his weight, his attitude, his streaks, his on court ball hogging.

Cam is honestly my fav he can play the most versatile PF of almost anyone in the league, prolly the best PF pure shooter as well, interchangeable as a 3 man also. Travis likes guys like Cam a lot. 
 

With Trae and DM able to break their men down, we need our PF to be a quick release three point shooter and he’s the best fit for a team like us that really needs to spread out for max success.

 

Cam biggest issue is obviously defense and we are already undersized but we gotta get spacing into that starting 5. We don't have to make a trade anytime soon anyway. Cam is out for a couple of months.

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Make a trade to get better, OR

Or not trade at all.

No saving money, but if you can save while you get better, why not. Then there’s more meat to deliver to your actual stars when it’s time.  

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Cam is out for a couple of months.

Dec. 15 and later. Prolly at 2:59 on February 9th.

[NBASupes]

We should be shopping JC but that's about it. No trades unless something good is out there. 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Or not trade at all.

No saving money, but if you can save while you get better, why not. Then there’s more meat to deliver to your actual stars when it’s time.  

At this point, you are running out of trade pieces. You need to trade to improve or a fit trade. The salary cap trades have ended with the Kevin Huerter trade. 

[NBASupes]

An ideal trade is Doug McDormott for Justin Holiday and a 2nd

[nathan2331]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

The reason they are used more for screens is that there screens connect. JC flairs, when spacing is jacked, flairing doesn't work as we saw with Horford in Philadelphia. JC struggles is due to Murray lack of range and teams realizing Trae needs space so don't give him any. As a result, Trae is struggling offensively as is JC. Capela and OO don't need any space. They are finishers with size and bulk. JC is smaller, he needs space too. Anthony Edwards is dealing with the same shit in Minnesota after the Gobert trade.

Capela and OO are not scoring that much more effectively than Collins and the stats back that up. Collins slipping the screen quickly is just a timing/preference thing. If that was causing issues he could change that up. I don't think he sets the greatest screens ever to be sure, but that's not the problem because again any potential replacement most likely wouldn't excel in that department either. 

 

16 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

His touches is at Kevin level in Atlanta. He's not getting into rhythm. He's struggling because of this on offense. 

Which goes back to coaching. There are other ways to get the ball in his hands besides PnR or running JC off a screen, but coaching doesn't seem to be interested in doing anything more than that unless JC has a mismatch in the post. We're not doing enough on offense to generate better shots and it's hurting everyone besides our centers who have extra offensive rebounding opportunities lol. Trae's usage is up this season because there's less action happening when the ball is out of his hands. This coaching staff needs to steal some plays and get everyone on the court involved. We've upgraded in talent, but you can hardly see it because we're more heliocentric than ever, we just have a second sun now in Murray.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Here's what is interesting.

This is by far the best start of the season in the Trae Young era.

Yet, people are talking about us like we're a below .500 team.

 

No way you trade Collins for another role player.  We really don't have another legit PF man on this team.  Dre can't handle it.  Okongwu has never played it.  And JJ is more of a 3 than a 4.

 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, nathan2331 said:

Capela and OO are not scoring that much more effectively than Collins and the stats back that up. Collins slipping the screen quickly is just a timing/preference thing. If that was causing issues he could change that up. I don't think he sets the greatest screens ever to be sure, but that's not the problem because again any potential replacement most likely wouldn't excel in that department either. 

 

Which goes back to coaching. There are other ways to get the ball in his hands besides PnR or running JC off a screen, but coaching doesn't seem to be interested in doing anything more than that unless JC has a mismatch in the post. We're not doing enough on offense to generate better shots and it's hurting everyone besides our centers who have extra offensive rebounding opportunities lol. Trae's usage is up this season because there's less action happening when the ball is out of his hands. This coaching staff needs to steal some plays and get everyone on the court involved. We've upgraded in talent, but you can hardly see it because we're more heliocentric than ever, we just have a second sun now in Murray.

Those numbers favor Clint and OO tho.

His preference doesn't work when spacing is congested. That's not his fault. That's on Murray and Trae. 

Any potential replacement is highly unlikely to be as good as JC in thar specific department as he's the best 4 in the NBA in that department. 

They are running wing actions. They are making a lot of attempts. That's always been JC game in the post, hunting for mismatches but those are a lot harder to come by with poor spacing. 

Trae usage is up because he has little consequences this year with Murray by him but his spaces is worse as well. So his on ball game is better but his shooting and off ball game is worse and it wasn't any good last year. Well the shooting was not not year. Trae could shoot his ass off last year. I said so many times, that floater is more important to Trae than his jumper. 

[terrell]

20 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If they don't, then we won't trade JC. He can get Myles Turner'd

Yeah I guess your right.. 

Crowder is kinda like a thicker JH anyway.. lol

 

[RedDawg#8]

In the past, any time JC's names is in the trade headlines he tends to play really well.

Hoping maybe this leads to an increase in performance from him on the court as he plays with a little extra anger.

Go Hawks

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, terrell said:

Yeah I guess your right.. 

Crowder is kinda like a thicker JH anyway.. lol

 

With none of the skill. He needs natural spacing too. He's a poor fit in my mind. The spacing issues on this team is bad. Bogi is massively needed. 

[terrell]

 

[terrell]

JC isnt a volume 3 pt shooter.. JJ isnt either.. Nate wants them to be Gallo....They arent.

Edited November 18, 2022 by terrell

[terrell]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

With none of the skill. He needs natural spacing too. He's a poor fit in my mind. The spacing issues on this team is bad. Bogi is massively needed. 

I hope Bogi comes out smoking. He usually takes a while to get going..

[AHF]

49 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Capela and OO don't need any space. They are finishers with size and bulk. JC is smaller, he needs space too.

 

This is where I differ. First, I don't see OO as being bigger and bulkier than JC.  Second, I think JC would be very effective offensively with the same opportunities those two get.  The reason he doesn't get those opportunities is that we know CC has zero range and we haven't seen OO be able to spread the floor (hopefully that is coming).  JC is having the best part of his offensive game taken away because that is all CC and OO can do and JC is usually on the floor with one of them.  If you dealt CC and got back a perimeter shooting center, then JC would be very effective as the primary roll man in the offense like CC is now.  The problem is having too many big men whose best attribute is finishing passes from Trae such that not all of them can do that to their full potential.