Hawks looking to move John Collins? This again?

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, terrell said:

I hope Bogi comes out smoking. He usually takes a while to get going..

I expect he will take some time to get going.  We could use him for sure.

[nathan2331]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Those numbers favor Clint and OO tho.

His preference doesn't work when spacing is congested. That's not his fault. That's on Murray and Trae. 

Any potential replacement is highly unlikely to be as good as JC in thar specific department as he's the best 4 in the NBA in that department. 

They are running wing actions. They are making a lot of attempts. That's always been JC game in the post, hunting for mismatches but those are a lot harder to come by with poor spacing. 

Trae usage is up because he has little consequences this year with Murray by him but his spaces is worse as well. So his on ball game is better but his shooting and off ball game is worse and it wasn't any good last year. Well the shooting was not not year. Trae could shoot his ass off last year. I said so many times, that floater is more important to Trae than his jumper. 

Those wing actions are evidence of the bad coaching I'm talking about specifically because we're not doing anything else with JC. Trying to add new wrinkles to the offense is a great thing. But when John is struggling with his shot why not play more through the post? It's not as efficient but the point is to get the ball out of our guard's hands so we can generate a good shot a different way. You can even use Collins to get the ball into the paint for someone else to score. Hunter with his size is somebody who should be able to pin smaller defenders under the basket for easy buckets like Joe Johnson used to do. But we don't try and exploit that consistently. That's just a hypothetical combination, my point is that this is too simple of an offense and I think that's what is holding us back as much as the spacing issues. 

[REHawksFan]

31 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Here's what is interesting.

This is by far the best start of the season in the Trae Young era.

Yet, people are talking about us like we're a below .500 team.

It is interesting.  And I'm guilty of it.  I'll admit it. 

I feel less optimistic about this team than last year.  Every game is hard. Yes, they are winning with better defense.  But they also can get the doors blow off them when other teams actually shoot well.  I never felt like they were out of games last year cuz they could shoot it out of the gym.  I never feel like a game is safe this year cuz they can't shoot.  

And let's be real for a second about the 9-6 start....6 of those wins came against teams with a combined 25-50 record currently.  They all count so don't hear me say they don't, it's that the schedule maker has been very friendly so far.  

[AtLaS]

19 minutes ago, AHF said:

This is where I differ. First, I don't see OO as being bigger and bulkier than JC.  Second, I think JC would be very effective offensively with the same opportunities those two get.  The reason he doesn't get those opportunities is that we know CC has zero range and we haven't seen OO be able to spread the floor (hopefully that is coming).  JC is having the best part of his offensive game taken away because that is all CC and OO can do and JC is usually on the floor with one of them.  If you dealt CC and got back a perimeter shooting center, then JC would be very effective as the primary roll man in the offense like CC is now.  The problem is having too many big men whose best attribute is finishing passes from Trae such that not all of them can do that to their full potential.

1000%.  When we trade JC it's going to look horrible in hindsight.  If he gets to play beside a stretch 5 he's going to immediately start averaging 20/10 again.  Playing beside Ayton would be a great fit.  One of the biggest reasons i wanted Ayton.

I do like the idea of playing a SF/PF type at the 4 who can really stretch the floor in this offense.  But we are going to lose a lot of rebounding if we deal JC for Johnson.  JC will EAT in PHX's system.

[warcore]

5 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Some day in the future John Collins will no longer be a Hawk.  It may happen soon.  It may be when he retires.  And it could be any time between the two dates.  When it happens, get excited.  Until it does happen, ho, hum.  Wake me when something happens....  

 

and sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie

[NBASupes]

20 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

1000%.  When we trade JC it's going to look horrible in hindsight.  If he gets to play beside a stretch 5 he's going to immediately start averaging 20/10 again.  Playing beside Ayton would be a great fit.  One of the biggest reasons i wanted Ayton.

I do like the idea of playing a SF/PF type at the 4 who can really stretch the floor in this offense.  But we are going to lose a lot of rebounding if we deal JC for Johnson.  JC will EAT in PHX's system.

JC is a very good player. Trading him will string for sure. That's why we can't just trade him to trade him. The value has to be there in the return. 

[terrell]

3 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

To add to this, the one thing I really wanted when we decided to get rid of LP was a creative coach.  A standard by-the-book established coach is probably the worst thing to have when we're building around an extremely non-traditional undersized PG.  We NEED to be experimenting and trying different things.

Schlenk clearly doesn’t know what he’s doing and it’s becoming more evident by the day. He’ll probably get next to nothing for JC too just to get out of his contract that HE GAVE HIM, cuz he has the Basketball IQ of a bread basket.. smh

 

 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

Schlenk clearly doesn’t know what he’s doing and it’s becoming more evident by the day. He’ll probably get next to nothing for JC too just to get out of his contract that HE GAVE HIM, cuz he has the Basketball IQ of a bread basket.. smh

 

 

Travis or Landry are not going to trade JC for anything less than the value they need in return. This isn't a Kevin issue where it was salary based and Tony didn't want a head start what they will have to do next year which is pay the tax. There is literally no reason to trade JC for anything less than a fit improvement or a player improvement. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

An ideal trade is Doug McDormott for Justin Holiday and a 2nd

Doug McDermott is making $13.7 million for this and next season. (Huerter is making $14.5 mil)

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Doug McDermott is making $13.7 million for this and next season. (Huerter is making $14.5 mil)

Damn! I was hoping he was making around the same as Justin. Well, screw that idea

We need a pseudo 4 whos a sharp and he can move without the ball at an elite rate. We need to find anyone in that prototype. Sam Hauser types.

Edited November 18, 2022 by NBASupes

[terrell]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Travis or Landry are not going to trade JC for anything less than the value they need in return. This isn't a Kevin issue where it was salary based and Tony didn't want a head start what they will have to do next year which is pay the tax. There is literally no reason to trade JC for anything less than a fit improvement or a player improvement. 

Well they obviously know it was a mistake to pay him what they did...He was never a good fit with CC imo..Clint takes away from what JC does best.. Shouldve moved him instead of Kev to get under the cap ..Couldve Moved Kev later when/if Bogi returned to form.. 

 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

Well they obviously know it was a mistake to pay him what they did...He was never a good fit with CC imo..Clint takes away from what JC does best.. Shouldve moved him instead of Kev to get under the cap ..Couldve Moved Kev later when/if Bogi returned to form.. 

 

I've said this a thousand times but I would have did a SnT for JC to get a 1st and cap space while Trae was still on his rookie deal.

[NBASupes]

I wish we would have gotten Bogey. Maybe Detroit will trade him to us for a 1st

[JayBirdHawk]

6 hours ago, thecampster said:

 

Per Koonin on radio this afternoon when asked about the JC trade rumors, Transcript:

"Is it surprising? No

Did somebody want to put that out? Yeah

Did it come from us? No

So somebody obviously wants to go acquire one of our players which is fine. Here's what I'll say, if we were trading a player, it's usually not in November! Can you name one NBA trade in November?"

 

When asked about it affecting locker room:

"We're playing well, we're a good team, we always want to get better, but we can't let internet drivel get in the way."

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I wish we would have gotten Bogey. Maybe Detroit will trade him to us for a 1st

Bogey is making $19, $20, $19 mil over the next 3 years.

[NBASupes]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Bogey is making $19, $20, $19 mil over the next 3 years.

Bogi for Bogey 

[Final_quest]

We need to just have a pinned post at the top of the forum.  
John Collins Trade Rumors

[TheNorthCydeRises]

41 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

It is interesting.  And I'm guilty of it.  I'll admit it. 

I feel less optimistic about this team than last year.  Every game is hard. Yes, they are winning with better defense.  But they also can get the doors blow off them when other teams actually shoot well.  I never felt like they were out of games last year cuz they could shoot it out of the gym.  I never feel like a game is safe this year cuz they can't shoot.  

And let's be real for a second about the 9-6 start....6 of those wins came against teams with a combined 25-50 record currently.  They all count so don't hear me say they don't, it's that the schedule maker has been very friendly so far.  

So right now, it seems that the barometer for the Hawks winning or losing a game, is giving up 120 points.

We're 1 - 6 when we give up 120 points or more, with the lone win coming against New Orleans in OT.  We're 8 - 0 when we hold the opponent under 120 ( actually 113 points ).

 

[JTB]

51 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

JC is a very good player. Trading him will string for sure. That's why we can't just trade him to trade him. The value has to be there in the return. 

 

44 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Travis or Landry are not going to trade JC for anything less than the value they need in return. This isn't a Kevin issue where it was salary based and Tony didn't want a head start what they will have to do next year which is pay the tax. There is literally no reason to trade JC for anything less than a fit improvement or a player improvement. 

As I read through all these pages I realized that Phx is doing what I was wanting Fields and Schlenk to do over the summer to maximize JC and that was adding Ayton since Ayton adds some kind of space with his mid range. Enough in my opinion for a player like JC to operate.

Folks are really missing the point about the personnel. If you trade Capela for Ayton then you can maximize JC like in the past before the Capela trade but now Capela seems to valuable to trade for Ayton at the time right now and that’s huge coming from me!

I love the play Capela has given us over the last 7. Ayton is not touching CC defensively when he’s locked in like that.

BUT if folks want JC to be a better fit in Atlanta with this roster and maximize his best skill set which is setting picks and rolling to the goal then a Capela for Ayton trade is the absolute best trade out there to do this.

 

is giving up Capela worth the defensive hit ?….I know CP3 still loves Capela so I bet Phx wouldn’t be opposed to it.

 

now in terms of any Collins trade to phx getting Cam Johnson + 1st rd pick and throw in Crowder would be too good to be true. Cam can really shoot it.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, warcore said:

and sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie

Warcore you lost all our Fckin $?  
 

ps War, I too know what it’s like to be thirsty. 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Spud2nique