Trae

[macdaddy]

Saw this.   The explanation here was a little different that somehow the messaging between the two went through Trae's agent?  anyway sounds like here they made some kind of peace before monday and wanted to move on.   Watch the first part before they get to perk.  

 

[terrell]

17 hours ago, StonedDogs said:

I think we can all agree Nate is not a great NBA head coach. Thats on Schlenk. He was an assistant coach to an assistant coach for a reason. 

The main problem I feel right now is what will make your star happy? Letting him do his thing and play his game or meshing with a creative coach who runs plays for the benefit of the whole team? Its all a mess right now

Agreed.. Elephant in the room is Travis....

[terrell]

6 hours ago, macdaddy said:

That's pretty damning.   Hawks are in a tough spot on what to do though.  Travis' coaching hires track record really sucks.

 

Not only his coaching record. He sucks at alot of things...

[terrell]

3 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

To add to this, it feels like the league is letting every teams star player get away with murder on offense this year.  And they're calling extremely soft fouls on star players while not calling sh*t for anyone else.  I saw behind the basket at the OKC game relatively close to the court, and I watched so many dudes get hacked with no calls while SGA/Trae got whistles for the most minimal contact.  Bogi got his arm yanked on a shot right in front of the ref with no call.  Some dude got hacked on OKC that I don't even know his name (so I knew he wasn't getting a whistle).  Wild to watch

That's why you cant compare todays Star players with previous era's.....

[warcore]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

Not Flattering, I saw this today:

Got' dammit Diesel! Stop spreading this POS with his garbage takes. He's been a Trae hater since day one and he just pushes his agenda worse than you and Terrell. You'd be better off getting info from BSPN -- which he's surely aspiring to be a part of. 

[AHF]

Not sure what to make of this idea that Trae has "bad character."  Remember all the other NBA players with bad character and how it prevented their teams from winning?

Jordan cared all about stat padding and was abusive to teammates because of his bad character.

LeBron bailed on Cleveland in the most egocentric way possible and hit the easy button by teaming up with other stars because of his bad character.  

Durant was too weak to compete and left OKC for its WCF rival because of his bad character.

Shaq was lazy and didn't take the game seriously enough due to his bad character.

Kobe was selfish and ran Shaq off because of his bad character.

Kawhi Leonard quit on his team and forced his way out of SA due to his bad character.

Etc.

Etc.

And this goes for every sport.  Did anyone have more "bad character" than Muhammed Ali (aka worse character) according to many in the press?

 

Do I think all of these reported character flaws were complete fabrications?  Of course not.  There is absolutely truth to many of these criticisms.  The point is that you are dealing with highly talented, flawed human beings where a lack of a strong ego is an exception to the rule rather than an outlier.  And these issues aren't always "make or break" to the long-term trajectory of their teams like some people are implying on this thread.  What I've seen from Trae has been minor compared to some of the items on the above lists but that didn't stop all those guys from winning rings.

[terrell]

1 hour ago, BudBall said:

I feel guilty not wanting to watch hawks due to how horrific Trae shooting is with all the bad shots and horrible defense. He is the best player we have had in a long time yet I have the urge for us to look into trades for him. 

[terrell]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

At any rate, Balance is what's needed. 

You have to Balance Trae's star power with Diva Trae. 

Treat him like the star that he is but not like a Diva. 

This is Lebron's fault.   Lebron came into the league and leveraged his star power to his divaness and now you have a bunch of younger players believing that is best for business. 

Jordan was not really concerned about Image.  Jordan was concerned about winning. 

But Lebron...  He has to control all the media.  He has to control every team move.  He likes to make moves and then hide his hands.  And his biggest Bully move is the one year deal. 

Young players are not fool enough to sign one year deals and miss out on SuperMax contracts but they do try to bully their way around. 

I think a stipulation ought to be added to the supermax... ..  The player must remain with the team that gave them the supermax to get the supermax.. otherwise it reverts back to a max contract. 

 

 

Why do people blame LBJ for everything?

"Jordan wasnt concerened about image"

https://www.sportscasting.com/michael-jordan-had-recurring-nightmare-about-ruining-his-public-image/

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by terrell

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, terrell said:

Why do people blame LBJ for everything?

"Jordan wasnt concerened about image"

https://www.sportscasting.com/michael-jordan-had-recurring-nightmare-about-ruining-his-public-image/

 

Agree.  MJ was extremely careful about managing his public image.  It is why he NEVER ventured into anything political or used his voice for a cause that might upset some of his shoe buyers.

[macdaddy]

30 minutes ago, terrell said:

Not only his coaching record. He sucks at alot of things...

Yeah.  I'd say that despite a few misses we're all enjoying a very good team that is almost entirely home grown through the draft and a few key trades.  We went to the ECF with 4 starters that we had drafted within the previous 3 years.   That's pretty good.   Capela and Bogi were good acquisitions.  Gallo was a very good acquisition that we flipped for DJ.

Cam, the loss of Huerter, Omari was a shockingly bad pick when you look at the talent behind him in the draft.   But all in all i'd say the team building has been very good. 

[terrell]

21 minutes ago, warcore said:

Got' dammit Diesel! Stop spreading this POS with his garbage takes. He's been a Trae hater since day one and he just pushes his agenda worse than you and Terrell. You'd be better off getting info from BSPN -- which he's surely aspiring to be a part of. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

This contradicts a lot of other reporting this year.  Still leads me to believe that the sources for this article are ones who want Trae to change and want Nate to stay.

Here's your source...

Spoiler

Travis:  Trae... you have betrayed the express command of your GM. Through your arrogance and stupidity, you've opened these peaceful realms and innocent lives to the horror and desolation of war! You are unworthy of these realms, you're unworthy of your title, you're unworthy... of the loved ones you have betrayed! I now take from you your power! 

 

[Diesel]

33 minutes ago, warcore said:

Got' dammit Diesel! Stop spreading this POS with his garbage takes. He's been a Trae hater since day one and he just pushes his agenda worse than you and Terrell. You'd be better off getting info from BSPN -- which he's surely aspiring to be a part of. 

Just a dude I saw on the youtube feed.  Nothing more.   

 

[benhillboy]

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

 

Athletic Article:

Tensions rise between Hawks star Trae Young and coach Nate McMillan in Atlanta: Sources

A 13-10 start to the Atlanta Hawks’ season has not come without drama, as league sources say the team is managing simmering issues between its head coach and star player. Those issues culminated in a telltale moment inside the Hawks’ practice facility on Friday.

 

Hawks All-NBA guard Trae Young and coach Nate McMillan had an exchange at Friday’s shootaround that led to Young choosing not to attend the team’s home win over Denver at State Farm Arena, sources with knowledge of the situation tell The Athletic.

While Young was receiving treatment on his right shoulder, sources say McMillan asked him whether he would participate in shootaround, receive treatment during walk-through and play in the game against the Nuggets. But Young made it clear that he wanted to focus solely on his treatment while missing shootaround and deciding later in the day whether he would play.

 

That approach, however, was not McMillan approved. Since the face of the Hawks’ franchise was deciding not to take part in shootaround, McMillan ultimately presented him with two options for that night’s game, sources said: Play off the bench — or do not show up to the arena. Young responded by saying he would not be playing against the Nuggets, and the team ruled him out while citing right shoulder soreness.

 

McMillan told reporters on Sunday that Young did not play on Friday night due to a “miscommunication.” Young practiced fully on Sunday and will return on Monday against Oklahoma City.

 

There is no disciplinary action given by the team to Young in the aftermath of the situation, sources said.
For the Hawks, this issue is a microcosm of tension that exists among Young, McMillan and the locker room. The Hawks have held multiple team meetings early this season to resolve various conflicts, sources with knowledge of the situation said.

 

For Young, whose strained relationship with former Hawks coach Lloyd Pierce played a large role in his firing in March 2021, it’s the latest sensitive situation that has caused many people within the Hawks to question Young’s leadership approach.

 

Ever since the Hawks took Young fifth overall out of Oklahoma in the 2018 draft, their program has been built with the hopes of maximizing his unique and dynamic talent. Atlanta looked primed to become a perennial Eastern Conference contender in the 2020-21 season, when it had a winning record for the first time in Young’s career (41-31) and fell to Milwaukee in the Eastern Conference finals. In the summer that followed, Young signed a five-year, $207 million extension, which began this season.

But the Hawks’ first-round bow-out to Miami last season revealed the need to upgrade the roster and, ultimately, led to the Dejounte Murray trade with San Antonio in the summer. There could be another significant move to come, as the Hawks have been in active trade discussions involving forward John Collins, who is currently sidelined due to a left ankle sprain.

 

Executives across the league who have heard about the Hawks’ behind-the-scenes issues wonder what this means for the future of McMillan. After leading the Hawks to the Eastern Conference finals appearance as interim head coach in 2021, McMillan signed a four-year contract to become the franchise’s full-time head coach.

 

With the team currently in fourth place in the Eastern Conference, sources with knowledge of the situation said McMillan’s job is safe. As all involved are well aware, Young and McMillan will need to reinvigorate their relationship moving forward if the Hawks are going to become a true contender again. And key personnel around the team believe that Young simply must find a way to become a more productive and positive face of the franchise.

 

From Amick podcast:

It’s nothing unfixable. It’s not the toxic level, but it’s not good. Trae — and the way that he handles his powers — he’s got a lot of juice in that franchise, and a lot of people internally are trying to get the word out that he’s got a little too much juice.

I think it’s well past the front office. Part of it is ownership; Tony Ressler owns that team. Nick Ressler, his son, has a lot of power and is very closely tied in with Trae. Perception-wise, there are some folks who feel like that’s part of the reason that Trae feels as empowered as he does. If you’re operating above your “superiors” and going straight to the ownership side, you’re gonna move a little bit differently.

When we decided to go with this story, for me, it was one of those where there were people — and we spoke to a lot of people on this one — where you wonder “are some of them gonna be pissed that this got out? Are some of them gonna be happy that this got out?” And this was one of those where some folks were probably happy that it got out because they’re running out of other ways to send the message to Trae “Could you please tweak your operation here?”

Preciate it.

[JayBirdHawk]

Trae Young gives Hawks a puncher's chance now, but their real window should open in a few years (cbssports.com)

Interesting Read!

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

Saw this.   The explanation here was a little different that somehow the messaging between the two went through Trae's agent?  anyway sounds like here they made some kind of peace before monday and wanted to move on.   Watch the first part before they get to perk.  

 

There's a lot of insight in here.  People need to understand that these teams are very close.  This is a brotherhood and a family.  Where there is family, there are messes.  It's just fact.  In Phoenix, you got a player and a coach publicly not speaking to each other.  Here, you have Trae and Nate publicly saying they're going to move forward.  I'm not listening to anybody saying that either of these guys is the problem.  It's pretty clear that what happened in our locker room is business as usual.

That being said, something is wrong...

Nate said that he didn't tell Trae not to come to the game - that's a classic "half truth."  If I say, "Shut up or I'm going to kick your ass." I can technically say that I DIDN'T threaten you.  What I did do is tell you to shut up, the other part of that is YOUR choice.  That's what happened.  Trae took exception and that's the key indicator.

NONE of what we know SHOULD have happened under normal circumstances.  Think of all the ways that a head coach and a superstar would quickly work through this.  Starting with the very beginning of it.  I would imagine the first thing that Nate would do is ask Trae to help him out with the "optics."  Like:

"Alright Trae...know our standards right?"
"Coach!?  I need to get this shoulder treated.  You seriously want me to come off the bench?"
"Trae help me out here...  You know how this gonna look.  I can't let you do something and nobody else."

At this point, both of them have options for not letting this escalate.  How did that get all the way to a heated exchange? 

As far as who leaked it...that's not a player or someone in a player's camp.  That's not agenda.  That's somebody the player talked to or it's non-team personnel on the take.  Neither Trae nor Nate want the "label" that would come from a rift between them.  Nate would probably like the option to step down before getting fired.  Trae doesn't want to be seen as a diva.  This is why they're both moving forward, why they're both upset, and why they're both saying it doesn't mean anything.  To them, it doesn't.

On a final note, I think Nate's days are numbered.  This has nothing to do with him being a bad coach.  I think he's a very good coach, but this isn't looking like he's the best fit - not without a shift in our record and/or some help on the sidelines.  There are just too many indicators here - starting with the fact that we are a very talented, experienced team, with two stars that is stupidly inconsistent.  We are up and down from open to tip, possession to possession, game to game.  It's not a talent issue.

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Nate said that he didn't tell Trae not to come to the game - that's a classic "half truth."  If I say, "Shut up or I'm going to kick your ass." I can technically say that I DIDN'T threaten you.  What I did do is tell you to shut up, the other part of that is YOUR choice.  That's what happened.  Trae took exception and that's the key indicator.

The issue is Nate and Trae did not have the communication DIRECTLY - it went through the agent.

That is why Nate's initial response post game vs Denver was that there was a 'miscommunication.'

Using intermediaries never ends well as they themselves have their own agendas.

But like Nate and Trae have said 'THEY ARE MOVING FORWARD' - so am I.

 

[Wretch]

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Trae Young gives Hawks a puncher's chance now, but their real window should open in a few years (cbssports.com)

Interesting Read!

Quote

To be fair, the Hawks finished with the No. 2 offense last season playing largely the same way, but they got exposed in the playoffs. Sure, they added Murray to account for what the Heat did in eliminating Young, but the your-turn-my-turn creation philosophy with Young and Murray feels positively pick-upish. There needs to be a system that can create shots for the shot creators. 

McMillan has not proven he's the guy to institute that kind of thing, either because he doesn't believe in such an offense, lacks the creativity to put it in play, or can't get the players, specifically Young, who's used to controlling everything with the ball in his hands, to buy into such a change as Steve Kerr did with Curry. 

#oprah-shrug

[Wretch]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The issue is Nate and Trae did not have the communication DIRECTLY - it went through the agent.

That is why Nate's initial response post game vs Denver was that there was a 'miscommunication.'

Using intermediaries never ends well as they themselves have their own agendas.

But like Nate and Trae have said 'THEY ARE MOVING FORWARD' - so am I.

 

LOL... Despite all the words I use, I moved on from it a while ago.  It's just that I think this is an indicator of Nate's tenure, despite what the organization says...and I like Nate.

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, Wretch said:

LOL... Despite all the words I use, I moved on from it a while ago.  It's just that I think this is an indicator of Nate's tenure, despite what the organization says...and I like Nate.

I keep saying I'm not a fan of Nate's coaching style.  I'm also not saying I want him fired.  I don't want a coaching carousel.  But something has got to give.  We can't keep having these 4th quarter meltdowns. The predictability of 'Nate' is killing this team.

Quote

To be fair, the Hawks finished with the No. 2 offense last season playing largely the same way, ..........but the your-turn-my-turn creation philosophy with Young and Murray feels positively pick-upish. There needs to be a system that can create shots for the shot creators. 

McMillan has not proven he's the guy to institute that kind of thing, either because he doesn't believe in such an offense, lacks the creativity to put it in play,

 It's hard to even say McMillan has instituted any kind of offensive system. Any shot the Hawks get is a result of individual creation, almost entirely by either Young or Murray. The Hawks make the fewest passes per game in the league by a wide margin, and their off-ball movement is virtually nonexistent. Young still hasn't committed to that aspect of his game, and that's on him, but to be fair McMillan hasn't implemented the kind of impromptu screening and cutting culture required to make the movement of a player like Young consistently worthwhile. It takes everyone working together and in anticipation to free up a shooter, not just one guy running around.