Trae

[JeffS17]

8 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Honestly, I don't think Nate told him to not come to the arena... That just doesn't sound like him.   I believe Nate said, you either come off the bench, don't play, or come to shoot around.   I think Trae decided to go home.    This is what makes me believe that the leak may have come out of Trae's camp.   Simply based on the misrepresentation of what Nate said.  Because "his camp" knows it would look bad if he was given a choice to either come to shoot around, don't start, or don't play and Trae choose to go home. 

I say you go back and listen to Dejounte after the game (Denver) comments.  They are focused... and probably part of the bigger team discussion. 

 

The initial leak definitely came out of Trae's camp (spun to make him look better) to try to get ahead of the bad PR to come.  Nate didn't want to talk about it but he was forced to address the lie that he told Trae to not show up... so Trae didn't show up to the arena at all and there was no legitimate reason for him not to be there.  It's a bad look.  And I forgot how pissed I was in 2021 when Trae pouted and didn't shoot at all after his beef with John... it's a character issue.  No way to really rationalize it as anything else.

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

The initial leak definitely came out of Trae's camp (spun to make him look better) to try to get ahead of the bad PR to come.  Nate didn't want to talk about it but he was forced to address the lie that he told Trae to not show up... so Trae didn't show up to the arena at all and there was no legitimate reason for him not to be there.  It's a bad look.  And I forgot how pissed I was in 2021 when Trae pouted and didn't shoot at all after his beef with John... it's a character issue.  No way to really rationalize it as anything else.

Then what reasoning is there for Trae not to face any discipline for not showing up?   Talk about a morale killer for the other guys.

[REHawksFan]

6 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

The initial leak definitely came out of Trae's camp (spun to make him look better) to try to get ahead of the bad PR to come.  Nate didn't want to talk about it but he was forced to address the lie that he told Trae to not show up... so Trae didn't show up to the arena at all and there was no legitimate reason for him not to be there.  It's a bad look.  And I forgot how pissed I was in 2021 when Trae pouted and didn't shoot at all after his beef with John... it's a character issue.  No way to really rationalize it as anything else.

Wait....so you saying Trae LIED about the conversation with Nate, leaked the LIE to the media, skipped the game without permission, complained about the leak to the media, and then comes back to play with ZERO repercussions from the team?  That makes exactly ZERO sense.  

[JeffS17]

Embellished, probably, yeah.  I think it was @Diesel that gave the analogy of talking to your child and saying something like "if you don't get an A on that test, dont even come home!!" which is just a way to message the test is important.  Nate likely said something to this effect and Trae interpreted it literally -- in bad faith -- and stayed home to pout.  None of us know EXACTLY what happened but this is my personal best guess based on what we've seen/heard.  It was a heated back and forth and the org isn't going to outright take Nates side and discipline Trae because that is just going to make the tension worse.  They also understand Nates time here is short term while Trae's is the cornerstone of the franchise and their cash cow.

[Hawkmoor]

36 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

The initial leak definitely came out of Trae's camp (spun to make him look better) to try to get ahead of the bad PR to come.  Nate didn't want to talk about it but he was forced to address the lie that he told Trae to not show up... so Trae didn't show up to the arena at all and there was no legitimate reason for him not to be there.  It's a bad look.  And I forgot how pissed I was in 2021 when Trae pouted and didn't shoot at all after his beef with John... it's a character issue.  No way to really rationalize it as anything else.

Some of us have been saying it.  Bad character overrides anything he does on the basketball court.  

 

[Hawkmoor]

32 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Embellished, probably, yeah.  I think it was @Diesel that gave the analogy of talking to your child and saying something like "if you don't get an A on that test, dont even come home!!" which is just a way to message the test is important.  Nate likely said something to this effect and Trae interpreted it literally -- in bad faith -- and stayed home to pout.  None of us know EXACTLY what happened but this is my personal best guess based on what we've seen/heard.  It was a heated back and forth and the org isn't going to outright take Nates side and discipline Trae because that is just going to make the tension worse.  They also understand Nates time here is short term while Trae's is the cornerstone of the franchise and their cash cow.

Trae is who he is.  What validated his character issue came out of his own mouth:  "It wouldn't have been a problem had it not been leaked".   LMAO.  What Trae is saying he is upset this thing getting out (regardless of if his camp leaked it or not) NOT about what actually happened.  A analogy for you:  I used to really defend and protect the musician called "Prince".  Later in life I found out he had a serious character defect that he could hide behind his music that people loved.  He came off as "mysterious" because he wouldn't speak to the media AND forced anybody who worked with him to sign Non Disclosure Agreements.  Now I know exactly why he had them sign those NDA's.  He was a jerk and didn't want anyone to know what was going on to reveal it to the public and hurt his image.  Thats all he cares about.  Thats Trae to a T. 

The players and Hawks front office and coaches know who and what Trae is about and had been trying to protect him.The players out of fear and the front office for marketing reasons. They have been feeding this thing which is why Trae pouts when things doesn't go his way.  He only cared about the issue getting out and hurting his image, not about the problem itself.  This blow up with McMillan I believe is gonna be the turning point on not Nate getting canned but Trae's gig in Atlanta.  This situation is not going anywhere because Trae himself is not gonna let it blow over.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Hawkmoor

[macdaddy]

Wow.  Lot's of speculation about Trae's character.  Not sure i've seen Trae do anything to rise to the level of all this 'bad character' stuff.   I'm not believing the org is so scared of him that he's just doing anything he wants with no repercussions.   If that is the case well then we have much bigger problems than Trae. 

[BudBall]

I feel guilty not wanting to watch hawks due to how horrific Trae shooting is with all the bad shots and horrible defense. He is the best player we have had in a long time yet I have the urge for us to look into trades for him. 

[JeffS17]

22 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Wow.  Lot's of speculation about Trae's character.  Not sure i've seen Trae do anything to rise to the level of all this 'bad character' stuff.   I'm not believing the org is so scared of him that he's just doing anything he wants with no repercussions.   If that is the case well then we have much bigger problems than Trae. 

A little speculation but there's a lot of hard data out there... also, Amick is not a hack of a reporter -- I believe what he reports.  The fact that people within the organization are concerned with his leadership abilities speaks volumes.  I have no choice but to support Trae because he's a Hawk and he's one of the most talented Hawks ever, but it is concerning to me.

[macdaddy]

7 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

A little speculation but there's a lot of hard data out there... also, Amick is not a hack of a reporter -- I believe what he reports.  The fact that people within the organization are concerned with his leadership abilities speaks volumes.  I have no choice but to support Trae because he's a Hawk and he's one of the most talented Hawks ever, but it is concerning to me.

What is the hard data though?   I don't know that we have much that we know definitively.   I agree that there's probably some kind of issue there but i'm not jumping to 'trae has bad character' based on reporters hearing things from people in the organization because ALL of the people in the organization have an agenda or a prejudice about it.   So what gets reported is entirely dependent on who their source is.   No one gives dirt to a reporter just to make conversation.  They have a motive. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Embellished, probably, yeah.  I think it was @Diesel that gave the analogy of talking to your child and saying something like "if you don't get an A on that test, dont even come home!!" which is just a way to message the test is important.  

Actually, I said  many of us have heard "If you are too sick to go to school, you're too sick to go out and play. "

That is the establishment of a rule.   If Nate is establishing a rule that you should be in shoot around and upheld that Trae should abide.. Good for him.   If Nate is being petty, then it won't turn out good. 

 

[Diesel]

At any rate, Balance is what's needed. 

You have to Balance Trae's star power with Diva Trae. 

Treat him like the star that he is but not like a Diva. 

This is Lebron's fault.   Lebron came into the league and leveraged his star power to his divaness and now you have a bunch of younger players believing that is best for business. 

Jordan was not really concerned about Image.  Jordan was concerned about winning. 

But Lebron...  He has to control all the media.  He has to control every team move.  He likes to make moves and then hide his hands.  And his biggest Bully move is the one year deal. 

Young players are not fool enough to sign one year deals and miss out on SuperMax contracts but they do try to bully their way around. 

I think a stipulation ought to be added to the supermax... ..  The player must remain with the team that gave them the supermax to get the supermax.. otherwise it reverts back to a max contract. 

 

 

[benhillboy]

24 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

A little speculation but there's a lot of hard data out there... also, Amick is not a hack of a reporter -- I believe what he reports.  The fact that people within the organization are concerned with his leadership abilities speaks volumes.  I have no choice but to support Trae because he's a Hawk and he's one of the most talented Hawks ever, but it is concerning to me.

Has the article been posted here?  Anyone feel free to answer.

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Embellished, probably, yeah.  I think it was @Diesel that gave the analogy of talking to your child and saying something like "if you don't get an A on that test, dont even come home!!" which is just a way to message the test is important.  Nate likely said something to this effect and Trae interpreted it literally -- in bad faith -- and stayed home to pout.  None of us know EXACTLY what happened but this is my personal best guess based on what we've seen/heard.  It was a heated back and forth and the org isn't going to outright take Nates side and discipline Trae because that is just going to make the tension worse.  They also understand Nates time here is short term while Trae's is the cornerstone of the franchise and their cash cow.

I mean, I get that.  But Nate or no Nate, I find it nearly impossible to believe that Trae stayed home / skipped the game WITHOUT permission from the organization and did so with no repercussions.  That's just not how you run an organization.  

 

[REHawksFan]

53 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Wow.  Lot's of speculation about Trae's character.  Not sure i've seen Trae do anything to rise to the level of all this 'bad character' stuff.   I'm not believing the org is so scared of him that he's just doing anything he wants with no repercussions.   If that is the case well then we have much bigger problems than Trae. 

Hell yes.  This is 100%.  But don't listen to the nonsense about bad character.  This is from folks to outright claim to not like him is the first place and simply assume the worst to fit their preconceived opinion of him.  In short, their opinions don't mean ish because they can't look at any situation involving Trae objectively.  

[JeffS17]

5 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Has the article been posted here?  Anyone feel free to answer.

 

Athletic Article:

Tensions rise between Hawks star Trae Young and coach Nate McMillan in Atlanta: Sources

A 13-10 start to the Atlanta Hawks’ season has not come without drama, as league sources say the team is managing simmering issues between its head coach and star player. Those issues culminated in a telltale moment inside the Hawks’ practice facility on Friday.

 

Hawks All-NBA guard Trae Young and coach Nate McMillan had an exchange at Friday’s shootaround that led to Young choosing not to attend the team’s home win over Denver at State Farm Arena, sources with knowledge of the situation tell The Athletic.

While Young was receiving treatment on his right shoulder, sources say McMillan asked him whether he would participate in shootaround, receive treatment during walk-through and play in the game against the Nuggets. But Young made it clear that he wanted to focus solely on his treatment while missing shootaround and deciding later in the day whether he would play.

 

That approach, however, was not McMillan approved. Since the face of the Hawks’ franchise was deciding not to take part in shootaround, McMillan ultimately presented him with two options for that night’s game, sources said: Play off the bench — or do not show up to the arena. Young responded by saying he would not be playing against the Nuggets, and the team ruled him out while citing right shoulder soreness.

 

McMillan told reporters on Sunday that Young did not play on Friday night due to a “miscommunication.” Young practiced fully on Sunday and will return on Monday against Oklahoma City.

 

There is no disciplinary action given by the team to Young in the aftermath of the situation, sources said.
For the Hawks, this issue is a microcosm of tension that exists among Young, McMillan and the locker room. The Hawks have held multiple team meetings early this season to resolve various conflicts, sources with knowledge of the situation said.

 

For Young, whose strained relationship with former Hawks coach Lloyd Pierce played a large role in his firing in March 2021, it’s the latest sensitive situation that has caused many people within the Hawks to question Young’s leadership approach.

 

Ever since the Hawks took Young fifth overall out of Oklahoma in the 2018 draft, their program has been built with the hopes of maximizing his unique and dynamic talent. Atlanta looked primed to become a perennial Eastern Conference contender in the 2020-21 season, when it had a winning record for the first time in Young’s career (41-31) and fell to Milwaukee in the Eastern Conference finals. In the summer that followed, Young signed a five-year, $207 million extension, which began this season.

But the Hawks’ first-round bow-out to Miami last season revealed the need to upgrade the roster and, ultimately, led to the Dejounte Murray trade with San Antonio in the summer. There could be another significant move to come, as the Hawks have been in active trade discussions involving forward John Collins, who is currently sidelined due to a left ankle sprain.

 

Executives across the league who have heard about the Hawks’ behind-the-scenes issues wonder what this means for the future of McMillan. After leading the Hawks to the Eastern Conference finals appearance as interim head coach in 2021, McMillan signed a four-year contract to become the franchise’s full-time head coach.

 

With the team currently in fourth place in the Eastern Conference, sources with knowledge of the situation said McMillan’s job is safe. As all involved are well aware, Young and McMillan will need to reinvigorate their relationship moving forward if the Hawks are going to become a true contender again. And key personnel around the team believe that Young simply must find a way to become a more productive and positive face of the franchise.

 

From Amick podcast:

It’s nothing unfixable. It’s not the toxic level, but it’s not good. Trae — and the way that he handles his powers — he’s got a lot of juice in that franchise, and a lot of people internally are trying to get the word out that he’s got a little too much juice.

I think it’s well past the front office. Part of it is ownership; Tony Ressler owns that team. Nick Ressler, his son, has a lot of power and is very closely tied in with Trae. Perception-wise, there are some folks who feel like that’s part of the reason that Trae feels as empowered as he does. If you’re operating above your “superiors” and going straight to the ownership side, you’re gonna move a little bit differently.

When we decided to go with this story, for me, it was one of those where there were people — and we spoke to a lot of people on this one — where you wonder “are some of them gonna be pissed that this got out? Are some of them gonna be happy that this got out?” And this was one of those where some folks were probably happy that it got out because they’re running out of other ways to send the message to Trae “Could you please tweak your operation here?”

[JeffS17]

4 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Hell yes.  This is 100%.  But don't listen to the nonsense about bad character.  This is from folks to outright claim to not like him is the first place and simply assume the worst to fit their preconceived opinion of him.  In short, their opinions don't mean ish because they can't look at any situation involving Trae objectively.  

There are people here who bash Trae and rake him over the coals for everything -- I am not one of them.  There are also people here who praise and defend Trae unconditionally -- I am not one of them either.

8 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I mean, I get that.  But Nate or no Nate, I find it nearly impossible to believe that Trae stayed home / skipped the game WITHOUT permission from the organization and did so with no repercussions.  That's just not how you run an organization.  

 

I don't find it impossible to believe.  I find it impossible to believe there was an innocent reason he stayed home and did not support his team, especially considering he got super defensive with Zach Klein.

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

And this was one of those where some folks were probably happy that it got out because they’re running out of other ways to send the message to Trae “Could you please tweak your operation here?”

This is all we need to know about what was reported here.  It came from sources with this agenda. 

 

4 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

sources with knowledge of the situation said McMillan’s job is safe

This contradicts a lot of other reporting this year.  Still leads me to believe that the sources for this article are ones who want Trae to change and want Nate to stay.

On top of it this is great for clicks. 

[HawkItus]

https://youtu.be/ztxCaPuPZJs

 

Trae and Doris 

[REHawksFan]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

There are people here who bash Trae and rake him over the coals for everything -- I am not one of them.  There are also people here who praise and defend Trae unconditionally -- I am not one of them either.

I don't find it impossible to believe.  I find it impossible to believe there was an innocent reason he stayed home and did not support his team, especially considering he got super defensive with Zach Klein.

First, I wasn't referring to you when I made that comment, but I stand by the character comment. It's asinine to draw character conclusions from this situation.

Second, I find myself defending Trae a lot against some of these folks that are overly critical.  But I'm also on record criticizing parts of his game and his actions.  To me, I'm balanced. To others, I'm a "stan".  Whatever, that doesn't really bother me.

As for the topic at hand, no I don't agree that there's any validity to the idea that Trae just stayed home from work without permission or acknowledgement from the team and then also receives no discipline for that.  That's not logical, rational, or in any way reasonable.  That's not to say he wasn't pouting.  He probably was and it is a bad look for him.  But to say he did so without the permission of the team is ridiculous. If true, you are suggesting that the team doesn't have the backbone to discipline a player who just willingly and without permission shirks his work.  That's not a reasonable position. 

Finally, if you read through this entire thread and then read that article, the general tenor of the thread is MUCH more negative than that article presents, imo.  The article states that the situation isn't toxic and in fact goes to say that people in the organization don't like Trae's leadership style, NOT that he lacks leadership ability.  Which is exactly what some have out right stated in this thread. 

Again, a lot of folks (not necessarily you but maybe you) don't want to look at this objectively. This is just another cracked door whereby folks that already don't like him can jump through and rag on our superstar.  The sheer giddiness with which a couple of posters were carrying on with in the early part of this thread should tell you all you need to know about the general tone of this Squawk thread. To say it was a feeding frenzy would be an understatement.